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Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 09 Mar 2023, 17:34:10

Here is a news video from 7 March 2023, a record minimum, 52,000 sq miles less than the previous record. Certainly the oceans won't rise due to this ice melt, that wont happen until the glaciers and grounded ice sheets break up, but what it is doing is putting millions of tons of water into the atmosphere.

This added 'humidity' coupled with the higher temperatures is what is causing debilitating heatwaves across the world, and no doubt is what is responsible for the severity of some flood events in recent years. Much is made in the media about heat, but heat in itself isn't life threatening. I have worked in 45 deg-C temps, it's not fun but the evaporation of your sweat cools you. With high humidity that sweat can't evaporate, the air is saturated, your body overheats and the water stops weeping from your pores.

Why the media doesn't report this is a mystery because drinking loads of water in such conditions is the last thing you should be doing. Water is a heat sink, you full your gut with water you end up with a hot water bottle inside yourself. At the moment heat records are being broken in India and Venezuela among other places, and that's in the northern hemispheres early Spring! In fact they had a heat wave in India last month, Winter. Strange days ahead...


https://weather.com/en-IN/india/videos/ ... ow-much-is
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Sun 12 Mar 2023, 14:09:31

The positive thing about COVID, inflation worries and Ukraine is nobody is talking about global warming/heating, climate crisis, whatever. We're focused on REAL problems.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby mousepad » Sun 12 Mar 2023, 14:31:40

Serial_Worrier wrote:The positive thing about COVID, inflation worries and Ukraine is nobody is talking about global warming/heating, climate crisis, whatever. We're focused on REAL problems.


Are you sure? The West is absorbed in trying to figure out what a woman is. And absorbed in determining if 60 year old books are insulting to negros and must be rewritten immediately.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 12 Mar 2023, 18:58:08

mousepad wrote:
Serial_Worrier wrote:The positive thing about COVID, inflation worries and Ukraine is nobody is talking about global warming/heating, climate crisis, whatever. We're focused on REAL problems.


Are you sure? The West is absorbed in trying to figure out what a woman is. And absorbed in determining if 60 year old books are insulting to negros and must be rewritten immediately.


:lol: Yes, that's the facts. That and finding new ways to hide the fact the world's primary energy sources are getting harder and harder to get out of the ground. Mountain-top coal mining? Drilling a mile under the ocean? digging up tar to make oil? Fracking source rocks 10 million years before the oil would form naturally? I don't think the average person has a clue how much desperation is out there when it comes to maintaining the status Quo. In keeping the world's fleets of cars and trucks and trains and planes and ships and earthmovers and coal plants running.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 19:30:39

Antarctic Sea Ice Is at Record Lows. Is It an Alarming Shift?
https://www.wired.com/story/antarctic-s ... ing-shift/

May 26, 2023
Since the late 1970s, satellites have been spying on Antarctica’s sea ice, watching the whiteness expand and contract with the seasons. But they’ve never seen the ice quite like it is right now. Or rather, the lack of it—levels have fallen to record lows.

“Every single day so far in 2023, we’ve observed sea ice that’s been below average,” says climate scientist Zachary Labe of Princeton University and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, who created the graph below. The dark-blue line shows the median area of sea ice between 1981 and 2010, a figure called the “extent” that researchers measure in millions of square kilometers. The red line below all the others is the extent so far in 2023.

“In fact,” Labe continues, “it broke its lowest point ever recorded in the satellite era. Which was striking, because last year, we also had broken that record.”...


Full Article
https://www.wired.com/story/antarctic-s ... ing-shift/
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 18 Jun 2023, 21:10:50

I hadn't really looked at it but the above article is correct. 2023 set an knew all time low record for Antarctic sea ice at 1,788,000 km^2 which handily beat out 2022's new record of 1,976,000 km^2.

You can confirm the numbers at the interactive chart under the Antarctica tab at this link.
https://nsidc.org/data/tools/arctic-sea-ice-chart/
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Mon 26 Jun 2023, 17:40:14

June 22 2023
Climate change hits Antarctica hard, sparking concerns about irreversible tipping points
https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/4oTR4RaD
https://www.space.com/Antarctic-sea-ice ... ate-change
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 08 Sep 2023, 15:58:26

Image

Image Shows Antarctic Ice After Hottest Month Ever: 'Uncharted Territory'

New satellite images show just how little sea ice is left in the Antarctic after the hottest month on record.

The continent is currently in the depths of winter, but the images posted by NASA Earth Observatory show a drastically lower amount of sea ice than is normal for this time of year.

Data collected by the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), one of NASA's Distributed Active Archive Centers, on August 7 shows that Antarctica's sea ice averaged 5.2 million square miles in July, which is the lowest ever observed since records began in 1978.

This follows July 2023—the hottest month globally that has ever been recorded, according to the World Meteorological Organization. During this month, it was 0.72 C warmer than the 1991 to 2020 average for July.

"What we're seeing this year is uncharted territory in the satellite record," Walt Meier, a sea ice scientist at NSIDC, said in a statement to the NASA Earth Observatory.

Image

This year, the sea ice is 579,000 square miles lower than the record low set in the same period in 2022.

Previous data released this year shows that the last couple of years have been unprecedented for the continent.

In July, data released on July 19 from the Climate Reanalyzer by the University of Maine's Climate Change Institute shows that there was almost 772,000 miles² less sea ice in Antarctica compared to the same point last year. Last year, there were about 9.4 million miles of sea ice cover on the continent.

Antarctica goes through seasonal ice trends. In normal years, the continent sees around 15 million square kilometers of ice accumulation before it melts, NASA reported. But in recent years the ice growth has been dramatically slowed.

A yellow ring around the map shows where the ice used to reach, in the years 1981 to 2010. During this time, the sea ice covered an area the size of Mexico, the NASA Observatory reported.

Antarctica has seen a sharp decline in its sea ice coverage since 2014.

Since then, several record lows have been recorded, including in 2017 as well as 2022 and 2023.

"Most of the months since 2016 have been well below average," Meier said in a statement.

Scientists are not sure what caused the sea ice extent to change so dramatically, but this could continue as the world continues to warm.

Climate change is believed to be the main driving force behind Antarctica's low ice coverage.

"Sea ice around the Antarctic has taken a nosedive in the last few years, plummeting faster than any other time since observations began," Ella Gilbert, a climate scientist and presenter previously told Newsweek. "It's still too early to say conclusively whether this is a blip in the record or part of an emerging trend, but we expect sea ice to decline in a warming Antarctic. Sea ice is sandwiched between a warming atmosphere and ocean, so is sensitive to changes from above and below, although it has previously proved difficult to predict because there are so many complex factors at play."

Antarctica's melting ice will have profound effects on the planet if this continues. It is contributing to global sea level increases, which is a major threat facing the world's cities. Scientists fear that if something to mitigate climate change is not done immediately, it could get out of hand.


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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 08 Sep 2023, 19:07:47

Well that's not good news? Two record years back to back isn't supposed to happen. Perhaps next year will be back up, if it's not my sister better think of selling her house by the ocean. She's already concerned and watching events closely, as are many others no doubt. And I ask myself, what's all that low lying real estate worth when the levels begin to rise? Very little I assume.

"Ice sheets are contributing to sea level rise sooner, and more than anticipated," said Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at the University of California, Irvine, and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

That's because people have never seen the collapse of a huge ice sheet and therefore don't have good models of the effects, Rignot said.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-thought/
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Tue 12 Sep 2023, 06:27:10

The chart one month later. Ice formation increased at a greater rate than previous years but has flattened off. It will be interesting to see if it climbs much higher from here.

https://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/ima ... series.png

There is a very informative video on this page. Click the "continue reading" link and scroll down.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/other ... r-AA1g6LX3

Or direct youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UjuRsqcnzg
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby jawagord » Tue 19 Sep 2023, 11:00:14

theluckycountry wrote:Well that's not good news? Two record years back to back isn't supposed to happen. Perhaps next year will be back up, if it's not my sister better think of selling her house by the ocean. She's already concerned and watching events closely, as are many others no doubt. And I ask myself, what's all that low lying real estate worth when the levels begin to rise? Very little I assume.

"Ice sheets are contributing to sea level rise sooner, and more than anticipated," said Eric Rignot, a glaciologist at the University of California, Irvine, and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

That's because people have never seen the collapse of a huge ice sheet and therefore don't have good models of the effects, Rignot said.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... n-thought/

Except for when it happened in the 1960’s, conveniently before the period mentioned in the article.

However, in August 1966 the maximum sea ice extent fell to 15.9x10 km ± 0.3x10 km . This is more than 1.5x10 km below the passive microwave record of 17.5x10 km set in September of 1986. This variation between 1964 and 1966 represents a change of maximum sea ice of over 3x10 km in just two years. These inter-annual variations while large, are small when compared to the Antarctic seasonal cycle.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/201 ... 017193.pdf
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Fri 29 Sep 2023, 15:45:35

jawagord wrote:Except for when it happened in the 1960’s, conveniently before the period mentioned in the article.

[i]However, in August 1966 the maximum sea ice extent fell to 15.9x10 km ± 0.3x10 km . This is more than 1.5x10 km below the passive microwave record of 17.5x10 km set in September of 1986.

Anomalous Variability in Antarctic Sea Ice Extents
During the 1960s With the Use of Nimbus Data
David W. Gallaher, G. Garrett Campbell, and Walter N. Meier


Interesting paper, but not conclusive.

...to search NASA archives for the original Nimbus tapes containing raw images and calibrations. Their first goal was to read and reprocess the data at a higher resolution, removing errors resulting from the limits of the original processing.

These tasks proved more challenging than expected, due to truncated data, missing algorithms, and other issues. But the result was a global image of the Arctic from Nimbus II, captured on September 23, 1966, in higher resolution than ever seen before from this type of data. This date falls around the time that Arctic sea ice would have reached its end-of-season minimum extent. The image demonstrates the possibility of reprocessing the entire available time series, supporting new scientific study of past conditions on Earth.

https://www.directionsmag.com/article/2162

3 scientists conduct research and it was not verified. Plus the data was corrupted in places, so they must have employed some method to fudge it. I'm not saying their conclusions are false, but there is reason to question it.

IV. ERROR ANALYSIS
The uncertainties in determining a sea ice extent from this
early data are primarily tied to the diffculty in distinguishing
homogeneous clouds from homogeneous ice. Fortunately, ice edges
generally appear different than cloud edges. additionally, clouds
tend to move faster than sea ice enabling edge detection
when utilizing multiple images of the same location. Another
diffculty in ice edge determination is the lack of independent
sources of sea ice edge data in the Antarctic during the 1960s...


They did work on earlier years too https://nsidc.org/news-analyses/news-st ... a-ice-past
But with today’s technology, Campbell simply worked with two undergraduate students to scan close to 40,000 frames, made sure the images had the right latitude and longitude, and stitched the photos together in his computer. With those images, Campbell produced the first satellite maps of the sea ice edge in 1964 and an estimate of September sea ice extent for both the Arctic and the Antarctic.

According to the data, September Antarctic sea ice extent measured about 19.7 million square kilometers. “That’s higher than any year observed from 1972 to 2012,” Meier said.


If they were being paid to "find" a certain result, which is often the case with scientific research these days than it could be a total crock. If they are themselves climate change deniers than that would bias their methods also.

Thanks for the post jawagord, an interesting excursion.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby Tuike » Thu 09 Nov 2023, 11:00:05

We can’t save the West Antarctic. So what now? -youtube
Latest data shows West Antarcica is doomed to melt. But how long it takes is not certain and co2 emission cuts might slow down the melt to postpone doom date. With enough emission cuts, Eastern Antarctica might be saved.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Thu 09 Nov 2023, 16:14:55

Tuike wrote:With enough emission cuts, Eastern Antarctica might be saved.


Everything I have read points to the fact that the CO2 stays in the atmosphere for up to 1000 years. If we have already passed the concentrations that lead to the melt of the ice sheets, and this has been generally accepted by the community, than nothing aside from growing and burying a trillion trees can stop the process now.

The ice sheet melt is a slow process, so they believe, but while ice cores can give data on past CO2 excursions they say nothing about melt time-frames, they rely on models for that. It's moot question, we are not going to cut emissions in any meaningful way outside of a total global economic collapse of an order greater than that of the Great Depression.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby jawagord » Fri 10 Nov 2023, 19:59:55

Tuike wrote:We can’t save the West Antarctic. So what now? -youtube
Latest data shows West Antarcica is doomed to melt. But how long it takes is not certain and co2 emission cuts might slow down the melt to postpone doom date. With enough emission cuts, Eastern Antarctica might be saved.


Did you cry? It’s a definite maybe. I look for the unreported weasel words in the actual publication if it’s available and check for real studies to compare to someone’s model work. These glaciers were father back 6000 years ago, advancing and retreating is normal, the vast bulk of the western glacier remained then and will remain a 1000 years from now.

the impact on some glacier basins of the WAIS could be irreversible

Increased ice-shelf basal melting can result in a loss of buttressing, increased mass flux across the grounding line and ultimately sea-level rise. Because our ocean simulations are not coupled to an ice-sheet model, we cannot quantify the sea-level rise contribution implied by our findings.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x

“In the last few thousand years before we started watching, ice in some parts of Antarctica retreated and re-advanced over a much larger area than we previously appreciated,”

https://news.agu.org/press-release/west ... t-ice-age/
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Mon 27 Nov 2023, 20:17:48

World’s biggest iceberg moving beyond Antarctic waters

A23a split from the Antarctic’s Filchner Ice Shelf in 1986, but it became stuck to the ocean floor and had remained for many years in the Weddell Sea

Not any more. Recent satellite images reveal that the iceberg, weighing nearly a trillion metric tonnes, is now drifting quickly past the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula, aided by strong winds and currents.

The iceberg is about three times the size of New York City and more than twice the size of Greater London, measuring about 4,000 sq km (1,500 square miles)​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... stract.com
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice 2022-2023

Unread postby theluckycountry » Tue 28 Nov 2023, 05:39:23

jawagord wrote:
Did you cry? It’s a definite maybe. I look for the unreported weasel words in the actual publication if it’s available and check for real studies to compare to someone’s model work...

https://news.agu.org/press-release/west ... t-ice-age/


Well look, the AGU organization you have linked to has come under fire from climate scientists because

Exxon’s Donations and Ties to American Geophysical Union Are Larger and Deeper Than Previously Recognized. Donations tied to Exxon have totaled more than $600,000 since 2001, and a former Exxon vice president sits on the AGU's board of directors. The board of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) sparked a protest among member scientists when it announced last month that it would keep accepting money from ExxonMobil amid new revelations the oil giant misled the public on climate science.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/2605 ... onsorship/

So in the pursuit of openness, can you provide a few more links on this Hypothesis that arctic ice retreated far inland in recent history? Like as studies not produced in affiliation with the AGU and it's Big Oil sponsors.

After uproar, society backpedals from actions against scientists who staged climate protest at meeting
In December 2022, two scientists took to a stage and interrupted the start of a talk at an American Geophysical Union (AGU) conference, unfurling a banner urging their colleagues to embrace climate activism. The protest lasted just 32 seconds. As applause and cheers broke out in the audience, event officials pulled the banner from their hands. AGU expelled the scientists from the conference, removed their abstracts from the program, and opened an ethics investigation into their conduct and the AGU response.
Several thousand scientists signed a letter denouncing AGU’s handling of the protest. Now, leaders of AGU, the world’s largest society for earth and space scientists, have announced they will restore abstracts...
https://www.science.org/content/article ... ed-climate

Sounds like the AGU is just another big entity bought and paid for. Much like Big labor unions are bought and paid for, the officials bent as dog's hind legs.
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