[vision-master]

So we want the truth instead, eh?

How about we go back just 12,500 years. What do we find?

[peripato]

So we want the truth instead, eh?

How about we go back just 12,500 years. What do we find?

A lot fewer people!

[Serial_Worrier]

So we want the truth instead, eh?

How about we go back just 12,500 years. What do we find?

A lot fewer people!

I want volunteers for "fine living circa 10500 BCE". Any takers?

[Pretorian]

So we want the truth instead, eh?

How about we go back just 12,500 years. What do we find?

A lot fewer people!

I want volunteers for "fine living circa 10500 BCE". Any takers?

i've seen one cave which harbored a tribe or two some odd 100 000 years ago in South Africa. Completely safe entrance, breathtaking ocean views. Good climate. Seafood as a major source of calories. What's not to like?

[vision-master]

(Red Granite) - Obelisk at Karnak Temple
Carved with precision machine tools - how could this be, we were living in the stone age BC, no?

[anador]

You know there is a thing called craft vm?

I suppose the Pieta and the venus de milo are similarly made by some ancient super high technology civilization.

Just because the cheapness of the machine addicted present is all you can see does not mean that humans do not have the ability to create such art-works without machine intervention.

People have had thousands and thousands of years to learn methods of carving stone before this.

[vision-master]

You know there is a thing called craft vm?

I suppose the Pieta and the venus de milo are similarly made by some ancient super high technology civilization.

Just because the cheapness of the machine addicted present is all you can see does not mean that humans do not have the ability to create such art-works without machine intervention.

People have had thousands and thousands of years to learn methods of carving stone before this.

Check this out......

What you learned about ancient hisStory is false.......

Temple Of The Condor At Ollantaytambo

50 ton carved stones

More....


More.....


More....


Check out this wall

More....


Here's the kicker. How did 'they carve out that bottom block of Andesite? You know, the back side (see below) - explain......



We evolved from stone-age to modern man is bunk. Total BS........

[anador]

I am drunk..... but ad hominem aside you are an idiot

[AgentR11]

I am drunk..... but ad hominem aside you are an idiot

VM lacks the understanding of what very bored people can manage to do without machines when they are presented with a job and oodles of time.

VM... none of those stone cuts look at all difficult to accomplish by hand tool and time (and reasonable craftsmanship). none.

[vision-master]

The obelisk is solid granite - the hardness of granite is what, like about 8 with diamonds being 10. Remember, all they had were copper and stone tools.

The Obelisk of Hatshepsut
Made of one single piece of pink granite, it has a height of 28.58 metres and its weight is 343 tons



Look at the incredible precision.....


Hand carved with primitive tools?


An Aztec craftsman made these earplugs, which put our belief in manual work to a tough test...

They are polished to a thickness of less then a millimeter and completely symmetrical. The perfect geometrical shape and the somewhat small difference between the tube's diameter and the diameter of the flanges make them rather unusual. They're supposedly made with tools like bamboo drills, stone chisels and sand as an abrasive. I wonder, how often the poor man had to start over...

http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/cul ... onetec.htm

[AgentR11]

One word for you: abrasion.

Stop thinking like a modern human where you have to make substantial progress on a cut in a few seconds or minutes. Start thinking along the lines of weeks to make progress on a cut and you'll get the picture.

Slow, constant abrasion > all.

Not to say that all cuts were made by abrasion, but rather, that there are no cuts shown that are unreasonable for ancient man using abrasion. You have not presented any picture of any object that exceeds the technology available as described by our understanding of ancient man. Truth is, what you've shown so far isn't even all that remarkable.

Basically, I think you are being trapped by a modern mindset that values human labor very highly. Even the lowly minimum wage worker makes enough in a day to buy 50 pounds of rice. Imagine what you could accomplish if you were in command of 50,000 humans who cost you, not 50 pounds of rice a day, but 50 pounds of rice per year. Yeah, ordering five thousand of them to cut a piece of granite, and spend a year (or several years) doing it, no longer seems all that amazing.

PBS on ancients and granite
My keyboard feels icky from typing "pbs" on it. Thanks a lot.

[vision-master]

Whatever, your mind has been 'conditioned' and you believe the nonsense those school books taught you. lol



Lost Technologies of Ancient Egypt


Words are important. Especially as a tool reaching towards critical thinking.

Thus it is with awareness that the following statement is made; critical thinking is about being self analytic with respect to our own presumed knowledge. Stated another way, critical thinking means to be aware of the tendency for 'sludge' to accumulate in our analysis of universe over time as assumptions of the moment mature into permanent bias.

Critical thinking does not mean to be critical of others. As if to reinforce that fact, those humans most possessive of critical thinking are constantly giving other humans space on everything as they (the critical thinker) realize just how screwy is their own thought process. And they are self analytic and self critical. Imagine what it is like to be neither.

Clif High....

[ian807]

(Red Granite) - Obelisk at Karnak Temple
Carved with precision machine tools - how could this be, we were living in the stone age BC, no?

The "high-tech" involved here would be called "stencils" made of wood or papyrus. One stencil, a measuring tool and a straight string would serve to create for hundreds of standardized Images, which would be drawn on the stone with charcoal. Carving the stencils was done with copper and stone. I'm sure a lot of nasty inspectors made sure the other details like depth were correct, although even the image you show displays enough images to prove it's hand work.

[vision-master]

(Red Granite) - Obelisk at Karnak Temple
Carved with precision machine tools - how could this be, we were living in the stone age BC, no?

The "high-tech" involved here would be called "stencils" made of wood or papyrus. One stencil, a measuring tool and a straight string would serve to create for hundreds of standardized Images, which would be drawn on the stone with charcoal. Carving the stencils was done with copper and stone. I'm sure a lot of nasty inspectors made sure the other details like depth were correct, although even the image you show displays enough images to prove it's hand work.

Show me comparable granite carvings done today with only hand tools. Remember, they only had copper and stone tools to work with and granite has a hardness of 8.

Also, tell me how 'they' carved out the bottom block - FYI: It's cut as smooth as a bathroom mirror. Explain how the 'back section' was cut out?

[AgentR11]

Show me comparable granite carvings done today with only hand tools. Remember, they only had copper and stone tools to work with and granite has a hardness of 8.

Of course, you leave out the one thing they did have that matters. Time. Oodles of it.

You don't see such carving done by hand today, because the labor would cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. If it cost you $5 for all that labor, you'd see it all over the place. Its not a technical challenge, its an economic one.

Also, tell me how 'they' carved out the bottom block - FYI: It's cut as smooth as a bathroom mirror. Explain how the 'back section' was cut out?

Obviously, we weren't there to witness it, so we can only guess. My guess is fine, abrasive sand slid back and forth.. might take a few months of work to make that cut, and it would leave that smooth surface behind; but if I only have to pay a few pounds of rice to make it happen, why should I care how long it takes?

[vision-master]

Ok, how did they cut, move and erect a 343 ton piece of pink granite?

Slaves, ropes and pulleys....

[AgentR11]

Am I supposed to know how every piece of ancient architecture was constructed and transported? I don't even know the path it took. The weight itself is not a problem, if the terrain permitted a one ton object to be moved, it would permit your obelisk. Its just a matter of scale and time at that point; both of which they had far in excess of what we are willing to mess with now.

[Lore]

Ok, how did they cut, move and erect a 343 ton piece of pink granite?

Slaves, ropes and pulleys....

Smurfs!

[PrestonSturges]

Show me comparable granite carvings done today with only hand tools. Remember, they only had copper and stone tools to work with and granite has a hardness of 8.

Of course, you leave out the one thing they did have that matters. Time. Oodles of it.
You don't see such carving done by hand today, because the labor would cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. If it cost you $5 for all that labor, you'd see it all over the place. Its not a technical challenge, its an economic.

"Time ain't money when all you got is time."

[sparky]

.
there is quite a lot of human build structures which left one jaw dropped
some artifacts are simply mindboggling ,
Some of the paleolithic cave paintings in southWest France pinpointed the map of the stars
exactly as they were 20.000 years ago ,
never underestinmate what humans can achieve with a bit of though and a lot of patience
if you want to know how they could have done it , simply try for three hundred years
I'm sure you will work something out