Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

9/11 Redux pt 5

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby ennui2 » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 18:20:15

SeaGypsy wrote:Maybe you need to watch building 7 being demolished over & over until you can admit at least 1 fact. Or too scary, that rabbit hole? Really weak.


One thing troothers always insist on is the last word. Weak.
"If the oil price crosses above the Etp maximum oil price curve within the next month, I will leave the forum." --SumYunGai (9/21/2016)
User avatar
ennui2
permanently banned
 
Posts: 3920
Joined: Tue 20 Sep 2011, 09:37:02
Location: Not on Homeworld

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby dissident » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 18:28:56

SeaGypsy wrote:Bullcrap straw man argument.
Your position is very clear: building 7 fell into its own footprint in seconds due to office fires. Any sane human being can see it came down in a textbook demolition. To you this perfectly rational & sane conclusion is 'trufer CT tinfoil'. Which makes you either an idiot or a slave of MSM.


WTC7 is indeed an obvious demolition job. The NIST report claiming the base columns collapsed due to debris overload raises two points:

1) The building was a POS deathtrap that should have never been built. You can see from all the videos just how much debris fell onto it. It was a very small amount. Not half of one of the two towers.

2) It is physically impossible for any steel frame building where a few of the base columns fail to collapse symmetrically. Steel frames resist collapse by their very design and taking out a few members does not uniformly distribute the collapse onto the rest but the load is redistributed effectively. Maybe if there were no joint rivets and the whole "frame" was stacked from loose elements and held together by gravity, then it would fall like a house of cards. I have seen no information that would indicate this Mickey Mouse construction philosophy in this case. But maybe that is actually the case and point (1) would be hammered in some more. There are plenty of videos of steel frame high rise fires where you see partial collapse.

Image

The above is a reinforced concrete slab and column building that behaves much like a steel frame building. Note how it toppled over as an intact entity and not sand held up by magic.

The two towers were POS tube designs with an epic weak point in the form of the clips holding the floor beams to the outer tube shell. Their collapse does not require demolition to explain. They could never have survived a 707 impact no matter what the lying architect claimed. Even a good tremor could have popped enough of the clips to start the slide to self-demolition. So the "truthers" and their obsession with thermite are not only wasting their time but making themselves look like tin foil hat nutters. They would be much better off keeping to WTC7. No amount of MSM blather can make that collapse story sound real.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5633
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 18:33:25

Only a moron or a tool could believe 7 came down due to office fires. You call me troofer, whatever, tool.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9177
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 19:05:27

Diss admits 7 was demolished, but sees no condradiction in validating the rest of NIST. Surely the demolition was pre-rigged. This means it was planned, in advance. This implies the entire story is lies. Mos & Diss & others here do no service to their own dignity in defending liars & murderers.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9177
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby dissident » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 19:37:35

SeaGypsy wrote:Diss admits 7 was demolished, but sees no condradiction in validating the rest of NIST. Surely the demolition was pre-rigged. This means it was planned, in advance. This implies the entire story is lies. Mos & Diss & others here do no service to their own dignity in defending liars & murderers.


Don't put words in my mouth. Find a single quote of me defending the US government and media narratives. The fact is that "truthers" are sadly mistaken when it comes to the twin towers. They don't even bother to learn about the actual building design and lap up stories about thermite and the kerosene fires not being hot enough to weaken the steel "frame". There was no steel frame in the twin towers.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5633
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 19:53:23

Full of bull in defense of NIST. I don't need to add a word.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9177
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 20:01:43

They don't even bother to learn about the actual building design and lap up stories about thermite and the kerosene fires not being hot enough to weaken the steel "frame". There was no steel frame in the twin towers.

Here is this that refutes what your saying above.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... lition.htm
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10519
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:02:42

It's all bull OL. Building 7 is beyond question a planned demolition. The rest of the story stinks also, but generally I don't bother with any further debate, since 7 is obvious enough for an average 7 year old kid to see no other possibility. If 7 is a demolition (it is), the entire NIST report is toilet paper. The only thing right about folks like Ennui is that 9/11 has become a prime topic for the tinfoil hat brigade. His not just insinuating, but directly calling me & Keith as tinfoilers on the basis of requiring recognition of the fact of building 7 being a planned demolition is nothing short of infantile insult. The fact this board is dominated by yanks & many yanks will never admit the implications of building 7's demolition, means the association between 9/11 & creeping fascist government doesn't get a look in. Every time the topic is brought into discussion certain crybabies whine to certain mods & the posts get hived off to a 9/11 dustbin.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9177
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby dissident » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:26:32

onlooker wrote:
They don't even bother to learn about the actual building design and lap up stories about thermite and the kerosene fires not being hot enough to weaken the steel "frame". There was no steel frame in the twin towers.

Here is this that refutes what your saying above.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... lition.htm


According to the "official" story, there is no significant lateral support for the walls (against wind loading) between the ground and top floors. This is like a bridge with a 1,300 foot span between supports. Even though the tube structure of the perimeter wall was designed for maximum rigidity (within the given weight specifications) the 1,300 foot span between supporting pillars, meant that even this very rigid design would sag in the midsection under wind loading, just like a bridge with such a span. In a typical steel framed building the span between pillars is only 12 feet (one floor) and such a problem does not arise.


Your POS link is indeed a POS. The above is patent nonsense. The "sagging" under wind load is what happens in any skyscraper. Skyscrapers also sway like reeds in the wind. The design of the WTC twin towers consisted of a reinforced concrete core which anchored the floor beams. These floor beams were attached to the outer shell wall via clips. Nothing else held up the whole structure. That's right nothing else.

http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html

The above link misses the obvious that the domino could start without a fire but gives some references.

Image

Clearly people have a comprehension problem in this subject. The outer wall had no ability to stand up on its own. The floor trusses were vital in holding it in place and maintaining its shape. There is no way that the outer wall would stay intact if the truss clips were sheared off in sufficient number. The two plane impacts ripped off the clips from more than one floor and over a substantial fraction of one of the faces. Any deformation of the outer tube results in shearing off more clips in a catastrophic cascade. The truss floors then collapse leading to an amplification of the clip shearing failure cascade. It is important to highlight the fact that from the outside this deformation would appear almost invisible at the initial stages. You can't eyeball a deformation of a few inches but this deformation is enough to shear off the clips attaching the trusses to the outer shell.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5633
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 21:42:39

Are you an architect, engineer or commissioner of high rise buildings? No. Your opinion on this topic contradicts thousands of opinions from qualified professionals who can be found by searching relevant key words. To argue that these people are fools putting on tinfoil hats, who have signed permissions, proven credentials & requested a scientifically rigorous investigation (not one costing a tiny fraction of the Monica Lewinsky investigation), have no credibility is utterly inane.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9177
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 23:13:33

SeaGypsy wrote:His not just insinuating, but directly calling me & Keith as tinfoilers on the basis of requiring recognition of the fact of building 7 being a planned demolition is nothing short of infantile insult.
I haven't actually looked into that stuff in detail.

The facts are that
- WTC was not treated as a crime scene,
- there was no normal criminal investigation,
- the investigation Bush reluctantly agreed to was politically limited and secret (for no good reasons) and
- there has not been a normal open discussion in the scientific/engineering literature of the "collapses".

That is enough to make me reach for the tinfoil.
Facebook knows you're a dog.
User avatar
Keith_McClary
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7325
Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Suburban tar sands

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 22 Jun 2015, 00:24:37

I for one will not speak about this 911 stuff anymore, those who wish to believe fine and those who do not fine also. By the way Sea, I am an American and from day one I found the story suspicious and it all snowballed after that.
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10519
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby GregT » Mon 22 Jun 2015, 01:23:12

dissident wrote:Your POS link is indeed a POS. The above is patent nonsense. The "sagging" under wind load is what happens in any skyscraper. Skyscrapers also sway like reeds in the wind. The design of the WTC twin towers consisted of a reinforced concrete core which anchored the floor beams. These floor beams were attached to the outer shell wall via clips. Nothing else held up the whole structure. That's right nothing else.

http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html

The above link misses the obvious that the domino could start without a fire but gives some references.

Image

Clearly people have a comprehension problem in this subject. The outer wall had no ability to stand up on its own. The floor trusses were vital in holding it in place and maintaining its shape. There is no way that the outer wall would stay intact if the truss clips were sheared off in sufficient number. The two plane impacts ripped off the clips from more than one floor and over a substantial fraction of one of the faces. Any deformation of the outer tube results in shearing off more clips in a catastrophic cascade. The truss floors then collapse leading to an amplification of the clip shearing failure cascade. It is important to highlight the fact that from the outside this deformation would appear almost invisible at the initial stages. You can't eyeball a deformation of a few inches but this deformation is enough to shear off the clips attaching the trusses to the outer shell.


So Diss, now that you have so clearly explained to all of us why all of those engineers and architects are completely wrong.

What caused WT7 to collapse 7 hours after the twin towers collapsed, and why are most people not even aware that WT7 collapsed?

No plane impacts, no truss clips to rip off, no "deformation of the outer tube results in shearing off more clips in a catastrophic cascade".

So what is your explanation?

What happened on 9/11 has everything to do with the ongoing destabilization of the Middle East, AND the provocation of Russia.
GregT
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu 24 Jan 2013, 20:18:20
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby dissident » Mon 22 Jun 2015, 10:20:35

GregT wrote:
dissident wrote:Your POS link is indeed a POS. The above is patent nonsense. The "sagging" under wind load is what happens in any skyscraper. Skyscrapers also sway like reeds in the wind. The design of the WTC twin towers consisted of a reinforced concrete core which anchored the floor beams. These floor beams were attached to the outer shell wall via clips. Nothing else held up the whole structure. That's right nothing else.

http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html

The above link misses the obvious that the domino could start without a fire but gives some references.

Image

Clearly people have a comprehension problem in this subject. The outer wall had no ability to stand up on its own. The floor trusses were vital in holding it in place and maintaining its shape. There is no way that the outer wall would stay intact if the truss clips were sheared off in sufficient number. The two plane impacts ripped off the clips from more than one floor and over a substantial fraction of one of the faces. Any deformation of the outer tube results in shearing off more clips in a catastrophic cascade. The truss floors then collapse leading to an amplification of the clip shearing failure cascade. It is important to highlight the fact that from the outside this deformation would appear almost invisible at the initial stages. You can't eyeball a deformation of a few inches but this deformation is enough to shear off the clips attaching the trusses to the outer shell.


So Diss, now that you have so clearly explained to all of us why all of those engineers and architects are completely wrong.

What caused WT7 to collapse 7 hours after the twin towers collapsed, and why are most people not even aware that WT7 collapsed?

No plane impacts, no truss clips to rip off, no "deformation of the outer tube results in shearing off more clips in a catastrophic cascade".

So what is your explanation?

What happened on 9/11 has everything to do with the ongoing destabilization of the Middle East, AND the provocation of Russia.


You clearly couldn't be bothered to read my post on the WTC 7 collapse and like SG put words in my mouth. Make at least some effort before spouting off.

Onlooker's link talks about a "frame" in the twin towers design which is clear BS. The author of that piece does not understand the concept of the design as is clear from the quote. The trusses connect the outer tube wall to the core and make a rigid structure. Without them the structure can't even stand. The "frame" pap only discredits people who question the official narrative on the collapse and opens them up for easy ridicule. I see all of the knee jerk reactions here and can conclude that it is easy to bait "truthers" with misinformation.

Arranging for the Saudi client state agents to fly into the twin towers is sufficient for the conspiracy and does not require thermite on non-existing frames.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5633
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 22 Jun 2015, 10:50:31

Or perhaps just a bit of common sense and logic, at least as far as the towers.

All over the world, MANY thousands of skyscrapers stand year after year, doing their job (staying standing and safe and viable). Ordinary planned events like wind and storm and weather is clearly something that the engineers have planned well for, since there are so few major building failures due to normal events like weather or aging (if the buildings are maintained), for the planned lifespan of the buildings.

As this link shows, just the top 25 cities globally have many thousands of skyscrapers:

http://list25.com/25-cities-in-the-worl ... crapers/5/

Now, cost is an issue with designing a building, just like any other business event. Standing up to say, wind and rain, is different than standing up to anything unexpected, like large jet airplanes full of fuel crashing into and burning in the building.

But whatever we do, as laymen and pundits, we should get all wild eyed and gesticulate and proclaim plots and conspiracies, even while thousands of the experts who actually successfully design and supervise the building of the many thousands of skyscrapers point out the physics and engineering support the fact that the planes brought down the twin towers. As does the physical evidence, like not finding evidence of the supposed explosives in the debris.

This is just like the mindset of AGW deniers. Since their intuition and world-view (often largely bereft of science) points against climate change, then no amount of data and no amount of actual science will convince them.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 7324
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: 9/11 Redux pt 5

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 23 Jun 2015, 01:19:24

Bump.
This topic isn't dead. The Big Lie will Never Die. The dawn of the century marred for eternity. May the scum who really dunnit never rest. May those brave enough to keep up the demand for a real investigation & report, followed by prosecutions of ALL involved, keep doing so.

In absolute disgust.
Yours truly.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9177
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: 9/11 Redux pt 5

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 23 Jun 2015, 02:17:30

This is a hot button and controversial issue. It SHOULD be. The US government literally got away with murder. I for one am fully convinced. Think for one second everyone reading this post. We have since WWII a government in the US who have chosen to ignore the Earth and have conspired along with multi-national banks and corporations to create a huge monstrous economy that is slowly sucking the life out of the Earth. A Government who has murdered and tortured to achieve it's objectives , who has built up a monstrous military and for what purpose? A Government that sides almost every time with corporations. A Government which by all accounts wishes to have total domination, like an empire. Only very bad people/lunatics would have ignored GW and other existential threats to humanity while creating such a large nuclear arsenal and being instrumental in creating this insatiable global consuming machine. I say all these characteristics imply to me that US government is surely capable of having been the mastermind of 911.
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10519
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: 9/11 Redux pt 5

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 17 Sep 2015, 11:01:25

This is just a taste, read the whole story at the link below.

On the morning of Tuesday, September 11, we were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt, flying over the North Atlantic.

All of a sudden the curtains parted and I was told to go to the cockpit, immediately, to see the captain.

As soon as I got there I noticed that the crew had that “All Business” look on their faces. The captain handed me a printed message. It was from Delta’s main office in Atlanta and simply read, “All airways over the Continental United States are closed to commercial air traffic. Land ASAP at the nearest airport. Advise your destination.”

No one said a word about what this could mean. We knew it was a serious situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. The captain determined that the nearest airport was 400 miles behind us in Gander, Newfoundland.

He requested approval for a route change from the Canadian traffic controller and approval was granted immediately — no questions asked. We found out later, of course, why there was no hesitation in approving our request.

While the flight crew prepared the airplane for landing, another message arrived from Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area. A few minutes later word came in about the hijackings.

We decided to LIE to the passengers while we were still in the air. We told them the plane had a simple instrument problem and that we needed to land at the nearest airport in Gander, Newfoundland, to have it checked out.
We promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There was much grumbling among the passengers, but that’s nothing new! Forty minutes later, we landed in Gander. Local time at Gander was 12:30 PM …. that’s 11:00 AM EST.

There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over the
world that had taken this detour on their way to the US.

After we parked on the ramp, the captain made the following announcement: “Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. The reality is that we are here for another reason.”

Then he went on to explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were loud gasps and stares of disbelief. The captain informed passengers that Ground control in Gander told us to stay put.

The Canadian Government was in charge of our situation and no one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on the ground was allowed to come near any of the air crafts. Only airport police would come around periodically, look us over and go on to the next airplane.

In the next hour or so more planes landed and Gander ended up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, 27 of which were US commercial jets.


https://annlaemmlenlewis.wordpress.com/ ... wing-9-11/
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15569
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

PreviousNext

Return to North America Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests