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9/11 Redux pt 5

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Mon 08 Jun 2015, 19:32:50

I'll wade into this yet again. I participate in the Shoomery web form since I started taking Ayahuasca just less than a year ago. Really interesting people posting over there. They also have a 9/11 thread, which includes insights obtained by people who regularly use psychedelic drugs and who have access to higher realms of spiritual knowledge and out of body experiences.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla ... 344/page/1

(More of the same I know- but from a VERY different perspective)
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Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 08 Jun 2015, 21:44:37

ennui2 wrote: There's nothing new to offer and nobody's changing anyone's minds on that issue. So Keith and company, if you want to just piss into the wind, go right ahead. It won't accomplish anything.
Wouldn't want you to have to do any rethinking or learn a new "one true version" of history.
Thomas Massie, a Republican congressman from Kentucky, said of reading the chapter: “I had to stop every couple of pages ... to rearrange my understanding of history. It challenges you to rethink everything.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... 7384448282

US President Barack Obama is facing fresh challenges to reveal some 28 redacted pages of a top Senate report of 9/11, reports the daily Telegraph.

It is alleged that the report, issued after the 9/11 showed Saudi Arabia was the principal financier of the attack.

Former senator of Florida Bob Graham who chaired the Senate Intelligence committee said Saudi was the principle financier of the attack.
...
The daily telegraph reports that the pages specifying Saudi involvement were removed and confiscated after orders were issued from George W. Bush, the then President of the US.
...
“Information revealed over the years does raise questions about Saudi Arabia’s support, or whether their support might have been supportive to these Al Qaeda terrorists,” Paul said at the press conference in Washington this week.

“We cannot let page after page of blanked-out documents be obscured behind a veil, leading these families to wonder if there is additional information surrounding these horrible acts,” he added.

It is alleged that 15 of the 19 attackers were from Saudi; however this issue always remained in hibernation during the investigations following the attack, as no link could be established between the country and the attack.

It is also debated that both Obama and Bush, in their presidential terms has covered up the Saudi involvement to preserve the sweetness of US-Saudi diplomatic relations.
http://www.thedailystar.net/world/obama ... port-93976

Democrats also spoke on behalf of the bill. Representative Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts said it was important “to hold accountable those who aided and abetted these savage attacks on our homeland”. Lynch went on to emphasize “this wasn’t a mere deletion of a few words but a full-fledged blackout of 28 pages of the report”.

It “may have been a matter of national security to secure pages in 2002 but it is long since time that we made these reports public”, he said.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... 911-report
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby dissident » Mon 08 Jun 2015, 21:46:13

Without trying to wash clean the US regime which will stoop to anything to achieve its imperial ambitions, I will point out that the WTC towers were not steel framed towers. They were square tubes held together by the floors. Specifically the clips attaching the floor beams to the outer wall. This turned out be a very flimsy design and the original claim by the architects that it could survive a 707 impact was an outright lie.

This minimalist architecture is nothing like that used in the Empire State building, a real steel frame building. This old style frame is a complete lattice that cannot collapse due to an aircraft impact due to the high degree of redundancy. It needs to be taken out with detonation of all the key support columns. In contrast the WTC egg shell design will take itself out if even one floor has enough clips detached from the outer wall. Once the wall is detached from enough clips it starts to deform under its own weight and the weight of the floors above. A bulge forms in the outer wall that acts to shear off more floor clips and the clips of adjacent floors. This sets up a catastrophic failure wave traveling both upward and downward detaching the outer wall from the floors. The square tube outer wall has no ability to hold itself upright and will break apart. In the case of the WTC towers, you can see the outer wall opening up like a flower during the collapse. That they did not keel over and fall reflects the fact that there was not enough structural integrity for the building to act as coherent entity. A steel frame building can fall over. The egg shell design will fall downward since that is the path of least resistance.
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 08 Jun 2015, 22:02:39

Who decided 9/11 isn't relevant to modern fascism? Biased moderation much. There is no more relevant topic, nor more telling belief.
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 13 Jun 2015, 16:23:18

dissident wrote:Without trying to wash clean the US regime which will stoop to anything to achieve its imperial ambitions, I will point out that the WTC towers were not steel framed towers. They were square tubes held together by the floors. Specifically the clips attaching the floor beams to the outer wall. This turned out be a very flimsy design and the original claim by the architects that it could survive a 707 impact was an outright lie.

This minimalist architecture is nothing like that used in the Empire State building, a real steel frame building. This old style frame is a complete lattice that cannot collapse due to an aircraft impact due to the high degree of redundancy. It needs to be taken out with detonation of all the key support columns. In contrast the WTC egg shell design will take itself out if even one floor has enough clips detached from the outer wall. Once the wall is detached from enough clips it starts to deform under its own weight and the weight of the floors above. A bulge forms in the outer wall that acts to shear off more floor clips and the clips of adjacent floors. This sets up a catastrophic failure wave traveling both upward and downward detaching the outer wall from the floors. The square tube outer wall has no ability to hold itself upright and will break apart. In the case of the WTC towers, you can see the outer wall opening up like a flower during the collapse. That they did not keel over and fall reflects the fact that there was not enough structural integrity for the building to act as coherent entity. A steel frame building can fall over. The egg shell design will fall downward since that is the path of least resistance.

Below is link to the real facts. You see the whole 911 was a big conspiracy and the elites have done all they could to perpetuate this false flag event. D you admit US is imperialistic so you really should read more about the truth of 911 which you can find on 911truth.org and here is the link
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... lition.htm
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 13 Jun 2015, 18:46:32

It's too late for that OL, everyone here who was ever going to look has looked & taken a side. As you might expect, a substantial proportion of Americans particularly have massive cognitive dissonance on 9/11, even in the esteemed & enlightened hallows of peakoil.com. From where I view it this day's most potent factor is the subsequent murder not of a couple of million Iraqis & Afghanis but in the murder of science.

Never in history has anything like 'Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth' existed. Thousands of peers demanding logical answers to legitimate questions about illogical answers provided. The debunker movement is sheer bollocks but it has plenty of adherents.

The murder of science & the murder of MSM investigative journalism, two ongoing wars & more in the offing.

Nothing to do with fascism. Phooey.
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 13 Jun 2015, 18:57:34

onlooker wrote:
dissident wrote:Without trying to wash clean the US regime which will stoop to anything to achieve its imperial ambitions, I will point out that the WTC towers were not steel framed towers. They were square tubes held together by the floors. Specifically the clips attaching the floor beams to the outer wall. This turned out be a very flimsy design and the original claim by the architects that it could survive a 707 impact was an outright lie.

This minimalist architecture is nothing like that used in the Empire State building, a real steel frame building. This old style frame is a complete lattice that cannot collapse due to an aircraft impact due to the high degree of redundancy. It needs to be taken out with detonation of all the key support columns. In contrast the WTC egg shell design will take itself out if even one floor has enough clips detached from the outer wall. Once the wall is detached from enough clips it starts to deform under its own weight and the weight of the floors above. A bulge forms in the outer wall that acts to shear off more floor clips and the clips of adjacent floors. This sets up a catastrophic failure wave traveling both upward and downward detaching the outer wall from the floors. The square tube outer wall has no ability to hold itself upright and will break apart. In the case of the WTC towers, you can see the outer wall opening up like a flower during the collapse. That they did not keel over and fall reflects the fact that there was not enough structural integrity for the building to act as coherent entity. A steel frame building can fall over. The egg shell design will fall downward since that is the path of least resistance.

Below is link to the real facts. You see the whole 911 was a big conspiracy and the elites have done all they could to perpetuate this false flag event. D you admit US is imperialistic so you really should read more about the truth of 911 which you can find on 911truth.org and here is the link
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... lition.htm


Its actually way worse. The entire days events were staged. Not one of the 4 plane stories pan out. All bullshit. Amazing cognitive dissonance when you see otherwise logical & capable adults backing the official set of lies.
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 13 Jun 2015, 19:00:51

So true Sea, too tired to try convincing anyone of anything at this point. Cannot help but thinking though how the elites are so dark and nasty, how they have steered us to these predicaments the planet confronts now. Fascists or Elites they are still the same. Oh and I like that Sea , esteemed and enlightened. Esteemed yes, enlightened well some would say you and I are not haha. :lol:
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Re: 911 Was An Inside Job? [New Merge Thread]

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 13 Jun 2015, 19:07:15

Yep if this was a court case and we had a impartial and competent jury this case would be what do they say "open and shut" , meaning no doubt about the guilt.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 19 Jun 2015, 18:13:17

Whereas you are a troll for your unwavering dedication to MSM USA. Knowing 9/11 is not as sold is not tinfoil. I am definitely pro Israel so your association bias does not apply to me.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 20 Jun 2015, 08:45:51

SeaGypsy wrote:Whereas you are a troll for your unwavering dedication to MSM USA.


What do you mean by "dedication"? I don't see how it's reasonable that I should feel obligated to bash the US or mistrust all MSM in order to meet your approval.

My feeling is that total mistrust in institutions is just as false as total trust. They're just two sides of the same coin, which is lazy BINARY THINKING. It has to be all BLACK or all WHITE. The world is GRAY.

SeaGypsy wrote:Knowing 9/11 is not as sold is not tinfoil.


Just because you say it isn't tinfoil doesn't make it so.

There are a whole host of psychological reasons why people clutch at CT's, but they all boil down to something peak oilers should know a lot about--denial. When your world is rocked by an event that isn't supposed to be possible, you manufacture alternate narratives that are more palatable. So Elvis faked his death, Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, and 9-11 was an inside job.

Oh, and Keith McClary is the one who spends so much of his time here bashing Israel in a way that rationalizes nail-bombing a Sbarros. I've got a thing against moral-equivalency arguments
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 20 Jun 2015, 20:33:28

Ennui sees building 7 coming down due to office fires as legit. Calls those who see controlled demolition tinfoilers. Total cognitive dissonance there.

As for Israel, very messy story of course, but on that score I agree with him. The islamists are bat shit crazy. The Israelis are self interested, generally sane. They have Muslim women & gays in the military, function as an effective secular state. The Palestinian authority lobs random bombs at whoever in Israel, to little physical but massive psychological effect. Israel tires & finds the whereabouts of some leaders, warns them, then demolishes their houses. Palestine tries the civilian shield method, fails due to the undeniability of warnings being issued, then rounds up some suspected spies & shoots them dead in public a few days later after a kangaroo court trial.

If ever Palestine gets full state authority it will be an islamist state. Beheadings,stoning, hanging & crucifiction with dismemberment, all righteously backed by the Koran & Hadith's. Screw Palestine, screw islamism, go Israel.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 20 Jun 2015, 20:50:45

SeaGypsy wrote:Ennui sees building 7 coming down due to office fires as legit. Calls those who see controlled demolition tinfoilers. Total cognitive dissonance there.


Just because I don't see it your way doesn't make it cognitive dissonance. CTs are the epitome of cognitive dissonance because they fail occam's razor tests on multiple levels. That's why the main 911 thread on this site is hundres of pages long, going around in circle after circle after circle, because there's no way to talk reason into a troother.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 20 Jun 2015, 21:24:19

Bullcrap straw man argument.
Your position is very clear: building 7 fell into its own footprint in seconds due to office fires. Any sane human being can see it came down in a textbook demolition. To you this perfectly rational & sane conclusion is 'trufer CT tinfoil'. Which makes you either an idiot or a slave of MSM.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 20 Jun 2015, 23:54:31

SeaGypsy wrote:As for Israel, very messy story of course, but on that score I agree with him. The islamists are bat shit crazy. The Israelis are self interested, generally sane. They have Muslim women & gays in the military, function as an effective secular state. The Palestinian authority lobs random bombs at whoever in Israel, to little physical but massive psychological effect. Israel tires & finds the whereabouts of some leaders, warns them, then demolishes their houses. Palestine tries the civilian shield method, fails due to the undeniability of warnings being issued, then rounds up some suspected spies & shoots them dead in public a few days later after a kangaroo court trial.
So if you were a Palestinian, you would happily give your ancestral home and farm to the Euro-American colonists for free and obediently serve as cheap labour for Israeli corporate agriculture on your former land? You would not think of fighting back?

How many Muslim women are in the IDF?
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 00:00:52

ennui2 wrote:I know what your position is, though, and you're not going to change mine.
Do you have any position that could be changed as a result of facts or logic presented to you in this discussion group. I don't think so. Why are you here?
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby ennui2 » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 16:07:02

Keith_McClary wrote:[o you have any position that could be changed as a result of facts or logic presented to you in this discussion group. I don't think so. Why are you here?


A troother's idea of fact and logic is not the same as a rational person. That's why I'm not going down the 911 rabbit hole.

Also, morality is subjective. If someone wants to create a moral equivalence (the usual one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter) they're welcome to do it. Just don't expect me to buy into it.

Those are just fundamentally hotbed topics like abortion where people are on opposite sides and there's very little room for discussion. However, neither 911 nor the Israeli/Palestinian conflict are particularly related to peakoil. Being averse to getting dragged into those endless loops doesn't mean I have nothing else to talk about.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 17:26:57

Ennui, intellectual coward.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby ennui2 » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 17:37:46

SeaGypsy wrote:Ennui, intellectual coward.


BS. I'm sure if I fed into this that the tinfoil and terrorist apologia this thread would be about nothing BUT that and the mods would have to do something to untangle the mess.

I know for some people, these issues are totally wrapped up in your sense of identity to the point where it's always lurking under the surface waiting to leap out. Don't expect other people to be wired the way you are.

Maybe go hang out at an Alex Jones site if you drink that flavor of Kool-aid.
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Re: Humiliation as a Tool of Blackmail - Russia and the West

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 18:12:00

Maybe you need to watch building 7 being demolished over & over until you can admit at least 1 fact. Or too scary, that rabbit hole? Really weak.
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