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There’s a 49 Percent Chance the World As We Know It Will End by 2050

Enviroment

Jared Diamond’s new book, Upheaval, addresses itself to a world very obviously in crisis, and tries to lift some lessons for what do about it from the distant past. In that way, it’s not so different from all the other books that have made the UCLA geographer a sort of don of “big think” history and a perennial favorite of people like Steven Pinker and Bill Gates.

Diamond’s life as a public intellectual began with his 1991 book The Third Chimpanzee, a work of evolutionary psychology, but really took off with Guns, Germs, and Steel, published in 1997, which offered a three-word explanation for the rise of the West to the status of global empire in the modern era — and, even published right at the “end of history,” got no little flak from critics who saw in it both geographic determinism and what they might today call a whiff of Western supremacy. In 2005, he published Collapse, a series of case studies about what made ancient civilizations fall into disarray in the face of environmental challenges — a doorstopper that has become a kind of touchstone work for understanding the crisis of climate change today. In The World Until Yesterday, published in 2012, he asked what we can learn from traditional societies; and in his new book, he asks what we can learn from ones more like our own that have faced upheaval but nevertheless endured.

I obviously want to talk about your new book, but I thought it might be useful to start by asking you how you saw it in the context of your life’s work.
Sure. Here’s my answer, and I think you’ll find it banal and more disappointing than what you might have hoped for. People often ask me what’s the relation between your books and the answer is there is none. Really, each book is what I was most interested in and felt most at hand when I finished my previous book.

Well, it may be a narrative that suggests itself to me because I’m thinking of Guns, Germs and Steel, Collapse, and this new one, Upheaval, but for me it’s interesting to note that each of them arrived when they did in a particular cultural, intellectual moment. That begins with Guns, Germs and Steel — it’s obviously a quite nuanced historical survey, but it was also read coming out when it did, as a kind of explanation for Western dominance of the planet …
I would say you’re giving me more credit than I deserve. But one-third of the credit that you give me I do deserve. And that’s for Collapse. Guns, Germs and Steel, I don’t see it as triumphalist at all.

No, I don’t either. I don’t mean to say that. But it met the moment of Western triumphalism in our culture, I think.
The fact is that you and I are speaking English. We’re not speaking Algonquin and there are reasons for that. I don’t see that as a triumph of the English language. I see it as the fact of how history turned out, and that’s what Guns, Germs and Steel is about.

If you don’t mind dwelling on Collapse for a second … Has your view of these issues changed at all over the intervening years? I mean, when you think about how societies have faced environmental challenges, how adaptable they are and how resilient they might be, do you find yourself having the same views that you had a decade and a half ago?
Yes. My views are the same because I think the story that I saw in 2005, it’s still true today. It still is the case that there are many past societies that destroyed themselves by environmental damage. Since I wrote the book, more cases have come out. There have been studies of the environmental collapse of Cahokia, outside St. Louis. Cahokia was the most populous Native American society in North America. And I when I wrote Collapse it wasn’t known why Cahokia had collapsed, but subsequently we’ve learned that there was a very good study about the role of climate changes and flooding on the Mississippi River in ruining Cahokia. So that book, yes, it was related to what was going on. But the story today, nothing has changed. Past societies have destroyed themselves. In the past 14 years it has not been undone that past societies destroyed themselves.

Today, the risk that we’re facing is not of societies collapsing one by one, but because of globalization, the risk we are facing is of the collapse of the whole world.

How likely do you think that is? That the whole network of civilization would collapse?
I would estimate the chances are about 49 percent that the world as we know it will collapse by about 2050. I’ll be dead by then but my kids will be, what? Sixty-three years old in 2050. So this is a subject of much practical interest to me. At the rate we’re going now, resources that are essential for complex societies are being managed unsustainably. Fisheries around the world, most fisheries are being managed unsustainably, and they’re getting depleted. Farms around the world, most farms are being managed unsustainably. Soil, topsoil around the world. Fresh water around the world is being managed unsustainably. With all these things, at the rate we’re going now, we can carry on with our present unsustainable use for a few decades, and by around 2050 we won’t be able to continue it any longer. Which means that by 2050 either we’ve figured out a sustainable course, or it’ll be too late.

So let’s talk about that sustainable course. What are the lessons in the new book that might help us adjust our course in that way?
As far as national crises are concerned, the first step is acknowledge — the country has to acknowledge that it’s in a crisis. If the country denies that it’s in a crisis, of course if you deny you’re in a crisis, you’re not going to solve the crisis, number one. In the United States today, lots of Americans don’t acknowledge that we’re in a crisis.

Number two, once you acknowledge that you’re in a crisis, you have to acknowledge that there’s something you can do about it. You have responsibility. If instead you say that the crisis is the fault of somebody else, then you’re not going to make any progress towards solving it. An example today are those, including our political leaders, who say that the problems of the United States are not caused by the United States, but they’re caused by China and Canada and Mexico. But if we say that our problems are caused by other countries, that implies that it’s not up to us to solve our problems. We’re not causing them. So, that’s an obvious second step.

On climate in particular, there seem to be a lot of countervailing impulses on the environmental left — from those who believe the only solution to addressing climate is through individual action to those who are really focused on the villainy of particular corporate interests, the bad behavior of the Republican Party, et cetera. In that context, what does it mean to accept responsibility?
My understanding is that, in contrast to five years ago, the majority of American citizens and voters recognize the reality of climate change. So there is, I’d say, recognition by the American public as a whole that there is quite a change in that we are responsible for it.

Right.
As for what we can do about it, whether to deal with it by individual action, or at a middle scale by corporate action, or at a top scale by government action — all three of those. Individually we can do things. We can buy different sorts of cars. We can do less driving. We can vote for public transport. That’s one thing. There are also corporate interests because I’m on the board of directors for the World Wildlife Fund and I was on the board of Conservation International, and on our boards are leaders of really big companies like Walmart and Coca-Cola are their heads, their CEOs, have been on our boards.

I see that corporations, big corporations, while some of them do horrible things, some of them also are doing wonderful things which don’t make the front page. When there was the Exxon Valdez spill off Alaska, you can bet that made the front page. When Chevron was managing its oil field in Papua New Guinea in a utterly rigorous way, better than any national park I’ve ever been in, that certainly did not make the front page because it wasn’t a good picture.

And then finally the Republican Party, yes. Government has a role. In short, climate change can be addressed at all these levels. Individual, corporation, and the national level.

In the book, when you write about the present day — you talk about climate, you talk about resources, but you also talk about the threat of nuclear war and nuclear weapons. It may be kind of a foolish question to ask, but … how do you rank those threats?
I’m repressing a chuckle because I know how people react when I answer that. Whenever somebody tells me, “How should we prioritize our efforts?” My answer is, “We should not be prioritizing our efforts.” It’s like someone asking me, “Jared, I’m about to get married. What is the most important factor for a happy marriage?” And my response is, “If you’re asking me what is the most important factor for a happy marriage, I’d predict that you’re going to get divorced within a few years.” Because in order to have a happy marriage you’ve got to get 37 things right. And if you get 36 right but you don’t get sex right, or you don’t get money right, or you don’t get your in-laws right, you will get divorced. You got to get lots of things right.

So for the state of the world today, how do we prioritize what’s going on in the world? We have to avoid a nuclear holocaust. If we have a nuclear holocaust, we’re finished, even if we solve climate change. We have to solve climate change because if we don’t solve climate change but we deal with a nuclear holocaust, we’re finished. If we solve climate change and don’t have a nuclear holocaust but we continue with unsustainable resource use, we’re finished. And if we deal with the nuclear problem and climate change and sustainable use, but we maintain or increase inequality around the world, we’re finished. So, we can’t prioritize. Just as a couple in a marriage have to agree about sex and children and in-laws and money and religion and politics. We got to solve all four of those problems.

What should we do? Are there lessons from history?
To conduct a happy marriage, it’s not enough to sit back and have a holistic view of marriage. Instead you need to discuss your budget and your in-laws and 36 other things. As far as the world is concerned, solving national crises, the checklist that I came up with in my book is a checklist of a dozen factors. Now, I could make a longer checklist, or I could make a shorter checklist, but if we have a checklist of three factors it would be obvious we’re missing some big things. And if we had a checklist of 72 factors, then nobody would pick up my book and they wouldn’t pay attention to it.

As an example of one of those factors that the United States is really messing up now, it’s the factor of using other countries as models for solving problems. Just as with personal crises, when someone’s marriage breaks down or is at risk of breaking down, one way of dealing with it is to look at other people who have happy marriages and learn from their model of how to conduct a happy marriage. But the United States today believes what’s called American exceptionalism. That phrase, American exceptionalism means the belief that the United States is unique, exceptional, therefore there’s nothing we can learn from other countries. But we’ve got this neighbor, Canada, which is a democracy sharing our continent and there are other democracies throughout Western Europe in Australia and Japan. All of these democracies face problems that we are not doing well with. All of these democracies have problems with their national health system. And they have problems with education. And they have problems with prisons. And they have problems with balancing individual interests with community interests. But the United States, we too have prisons and we’ve got education and we have a national health system, and we are dissatisfied. Most Americans are dissatisfied with our national health system, and most Americans are increasingly dissatisfied with our educational system.

Other countries face these same problems and other countries do reasonably well, better than the United States in solving these problems. So, one thing that we can learn is to look at other countries as models and disabuse ourselves of the idea that the United States is exceptional and so there’s nothing we can learn from any other country, which is nonsense.

Do you think of this as being a sort of book about the path forward for the U.S.? Or do you think of it as having a broader, global audience?
It is a book about the U.S. plus 215 other countries. The United States is one country in the world, and we’ve got our own problems, which we are struggling with. I came back from Italy and Britain. Britain when I was there was at the peak of Brexit, but Britain is still at the peak of Brexit.

They’re not leaving that behind.
They’re making, I would say, zero progress with Brexit. Italy has its own big problems. Papua New Guinea has its own problems. I’m trying to think what country does not have problems …

It’s hard.
Norway is doing pretty well. What else?

Portugal maybe is doing relatively well.
Which one is that?

Portugal, maybe.
Portugal, maybe. Costa Rica, all things considered. Well, Costa Rica has problems because I think all four of Costa Rica’s last four presidents are in jail at the moment. That’s a significant problem.

If there’s hardly a nation in the world that seems to be a good model, a thriving example for other nations of the world to follow behind, how much faith does that give you that we can find our way to a kind of sustainable, prosperous, and fulfilling future?
That’s an interesting question. If I had stopped the book on the chapter about the world without writing the last six pages, it would have been a pessimistic chapter, because at that point I thought the world does not have a track record of solving difficult problems. The U.N., well bless it, but the U.N. isn’t sufficiently powerful, and therefore I feel pessimistic about our chances of solving big world problems.

But then, fortunately, I learned by talking with friends that the world does have a successful track record in the last 40 years about solving really complex, thorny problems. For example, the coastal economics. So many countries have overlapping coastal economic zones. What a horrible challenge that was to get all the countries in the world to agree with delineating their coastal economic zones. But it worked. They’re delineated.

Or smallpox. To eliminate smallpox it had to be eliminated in every country. That included eliminating it in Ethiopia and Somalia. Boy, was it difficult to eliminate smallpox in Somalia, but it was eliminated.

I wonder if I could ask you about California in particular. It’s interesting to me in the sense that when I look at the example of California, I see a lot of reasons for hope in the sense that there’s quite focused attention on climate and resources used there — probably more sustained interested in those subjects than there really is anywhere else in the U.S. And it has policy that’s, by any metric, I think more progressive than the relevant policies elsewhere in the U.S.

And yet, it’s also a state that — maybe it’s an unfortunate phrase — by accident of geography is also facing some of the most intense pressures and dealing with the most intense impacts already, from water issues to wildfire and all the rest of it. As a Californian who’s informed by these concerns looking at the future and thinking about the future, how does the future of California look to you?
California has problems like every other place in the world. But California makes me optimistic. It does have the environmental problems but nevertheless we have, I would say, one of the best state governments, if not the best state government in the United States. And relatively educated citizens. And we have the best system of public education, of public higher education in the United States. Although, I, at the University of California, know very well that we are screaming at the legislature for more money. So we have problems but we’re giving me hope at how we’re dealing with those problems.

I’m a native New Yorker and lived my whole life in this environment on the East Coast. And when I see images of those wildfires and when I hear stories of people I know or people I meet, and the fact that they’ve evacuated, the fact that no matter where you are in Southern California, also in parts of Central California and Northern California, you have an evacuation plan in mind. I just don’t understand how you guys can live like that. It must begin to impose some kind of psychic cost.
Well, I understand psychic costs and I understand getting my head around it because I was born and grew up in Boston. The last straw for me was that in Boston I sang in the Handel and Haydn Society chorus, and we were going to perform in Boston Symphony Hall the last week in May and our concert was canceled by a snowstorm that closed Boston down. And for me that was the last straw. I do not want to live in a city where a concert in Symphony Hall is going to get closed down in the last week of May by a snowstorm.

That’s just one event, but the fact is that Boston is and was miserable for five months of the year in the winter and then it’s nice for two weeks in the spring and then it’s miserable for four months in the summer, then it’s nice for a few weeks in the fall. Similarly with New York. So when I moved here, my reaction is, “Yes, we have the fires and we have the earthquakes and we have the mudslide and we have the risk of flooding. But, thank God for all those things because they saved me from the psychic costs of living in the Northeast.”

NY Mag



39 Comments on "There’s a 49 Percent Chance the World As We Know It Will End by 2050"

  1. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 15th May 2019 6:47 pm 

    “Today, the risk that we’re facing is not of societies collapsing one by one, but because of globalization, the risk we are facing is of the collapse of the whole world.”

    Yup..Nailed it!

  2. Duncan Idaho on Wed, 15th May 2019 7:05 pm 

    1812 –North America: Red Tide? Surf’s Up!! The Russians begin building Ft. Ross, California.

  3. makati1 on Wed, 15th May 2019 7:34 pm 

    “There’s a 49 Percent Chance the World As We Know It Will End by 2050”

    No, there is a 100% chance that the world will be different, very different in a negative way. Not even close to today’s BAU/JIT world.

    I don’t even give it that long to change. Maybe 5-10 years max. Or this year? 2020 is going to be a very active change year is all areas. By 2025, it will be a new world. Are YOU prepared?

  4. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 15th May 2019 8:04 pm 

    THE END OF THE OIL GIANTS: And What It Means

    https://srsroccoreport.com/the-end-of-the-oil-giants-and-what-it-means/

    The world is so fucked~ Mark my words..THIS WORLD WILL BURN!

  5. Sirrocco on Wed, 15th May 2019 8:54 pm 

    I obviously want to talk about your new book, but I thought it might be useful to start by asking you how you saw it in the context of your life’s work. After that sentence I stopped, another end of the world as we know it, boring like the Walking Dead

  6. makati1 on Thu, 16th May 2019 12:18 am 

    “A spoiled child, what Trump is, doesn’t get his way – and goes into a tantrum, not quite knowing what he is doing, and knowing even less what he may expect in return…..

    … what all this looks like to me – is the desperate thrashing around of a dying beast, or in this case a dying empire…. So, the US could start bombing Iran already today. Why don’t they? Maybe they are afraid – afraid Iran could lock down the Strait of Hormuz, where 60% of US oil imports have to sail through. What a disaster that would be… the cost of war doesn’t matter – it’s just more debt, and as we know, the US never, but never pays back its debt…. T

    The world knows that the US are no longer superior – by a long shot, and haven’t been for the last couple of years, when China surpassed the US in economic strength, measured by PPP = Purchasing Power Parity – which is the only parity or exchange rate that has any real meaning….

    China, Iran and Venezuela are threatening the US dollar’s world hegemony – and without that the US economy is dead, literally. The dollar is based on thin air, and on fraud – the dollar system used around the globe is nothing but a huge, a very big and monstrous Ponzi-scheme, that one day must be coming crashing down….

    The nations around the world know what’s going on, they know the US is in her last breath; though they don’t quite dare saying so – but they know it, and are waiting for the downfall to continue. The world is waiting for the grand fiesta, dancing in the streets, when the empire disappears – or becomes utterly irrelevant.” – Peter Koenig is an economist and geopolitical analyst. After working for over 30 years with the World Bank he penned Implosion, an economic thriller, based on his first-hand experience.

    https://journal-neo.org/2019/05/15/threats-and-sanctions-everywhere-a-chronicle-of-disorganized-chaos-foretold/

    Nothing more to add except: GO TRUMP! TRUMP IN 2020! TRUMP, AMERICA’S GODZILLA!

  7. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 1:35 am 

    afraid Iran could lock down the Strait of Hormuz, where 60% of US oil imports have to sail through. What a disaster that would be

    Actually it is 16%.

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

    It would be mostly a “disaster” for Europe, economically. Geopolitically it would be a blessing, since it would drive Europe into the arms of Russia, that would receive $500 for its oil, strengthening its stature as the “last man standing” of white civilization and further alienate EU-US.

  8. Antius on Thu, 16th May 2019 3:01 am 

    I have just started reading ‘The British Mad Dog’, by M S King – an alternative biography of Winston Churchill. I am only a few pages in, but already the picture it paints is very different to the official narrative. A half-American, boorish drunk, who led Britain into a devastating war from which we never recovered.

    Had Britain been free from Zionist interference, Germany would have been an ally that bolstered British influence in Africa and served as a back-stop to Russian advance into Europe. That was what they wanted to be and it was in British interests to have them serve that role. As it was, both empires were obliterated and Zionist power was cemented for the next 80 years.

  9. Theedrich on Thu, 16th May 2019 3:20 am 

    If the U.S. attacks Iran, goodbye Strait of Hormuz. As Cloggie has pointed out, Europe will immediately flee to Russia for support on the fossil fuel front.  It’ll be a matter of existence;  not even Frau Sauer, queen of Deutschland, will be able to do anything about it.  No more mea culpas about hologuilt, no importation of more dross from Arabastan, no more hyping of windmills, solarities, or other fun fancies, will help.  It’ll be survival or death for Europe:  an abject defeat in another World War, once more at the hands of the “exceptional nation.”

    On the issue of global business-as-usual, Yankeeland cannot bear to do without China.  That would be going back to a time when Americans actually did hard work.  Besides, we have all of these “new Americans” from the global sewers — parasites which need to be cared for and coddled.  Plus, we have the party of traitors, the Democrat Party, which insists that America suck in all of the lowest-IQ hominids of the planet.  Sob, sob, sob.  As Nietzsche said at the end of his Also sprach Zarathustra, the final sin is Mitleiden — compassion.  Which is a hypersonic missile leading to the West’s implosion.

    Like it or not, compassion is a luxury of the rich, of the likes of Nancy Pelosi and other wealthy politicians here and abroad.  The denizens of China and other ThirdWorldies do not enjoy such luxury.  Thus we can expect that our species will exterminate or “re-medievalize” itself within the next few decades, perhaps sooner.  And the “indispensable nation” will learn that virtue-signalling has no effect on collapse.

  10. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 3:26 am 

    Theedrich

    IQ is based on psychology and that is junk science..All IQ test measure is what a good conformist (sheep) to the system you are..That is why all the communist countries in Asia score the highest, followed by ole whitey..

    Its great though if you want to try to use it to justify oppressing others because you are a hate filed nazi.

    You are so dumb its almost unbelievable..

  11. makati1 on Thu, 16th May 2019 3:50 am 

    “Actually it is 16%.” No Cloggie, it is actually ~22%. But that is splitting hairs. If the Strait is closed it is game over for the US and most of the West, and bumps for everyone else. It will kill the US economy/dollar and that will ripple around the world. Game over. Are YOU prepared?

    http://www.worldstopexports.com/us-crude-oil-imports-by-supplier-countries/

    But then, what if Venezuela closes the Panama Canal? Wouldn’t take more than one missile on one of the main gates. Game over again.

    Then there is the Suez Canal… So many choke points. So little time. Exciting times!

  12. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 4:00 am 

    IQ is a very effective predictor of success and achievement in life and geopolitics.

    The leftist Dutch government of US c*ck suckers early on has an IQ number tagged to all the cattle of its tax farm and uses that number to decide where the particular sheep in question will end up. They won’t let you in a university for instance under IQ120. Army officers likewise.

    All western governments of ideological IQ deniers and racial marxists act like that. Grotesq dual standards.

  13. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 4:24 am 

    Jared’s Book “Collapse” is in my library. I read it back when it came out when collapse was more immediate than it is now. Immediate is a deceptive term because saying not immediate is like saying we are off the hook. The immediate in 2011 was that energy and economy were going to sledgehammer the global economy into collapse within 3-5 years. Energy and economy are still relevant but their conditions of immediacy is not as strong. We still have the condition of immediacy and it has not gone away. They won’t go away because they are symptoms of a civilization in predicaments. Climate change, resource depletion, and environmental degradation are not as immediate but they are converging forces that play into more immediate forces. They are also terminal forces. Once we destroy them we don’t get a second chance. Energy and economy we could adapt a human world around a different civilization. Could does not mean without extreme pain. If this could be done the terminal forces might be arrested. This “could” seems moot today like we are on death row. The theoretical is often just fantasy.

    This is where the social condition comes in because it is our macro attitudes, population levels, and social arrangements that could give us a chance of change. If we have a flawed social narrative then we are not going to affect needed change. In this case energy and economics will continue to be potentially immediate problems. Climate, resources, and environment continue to rot permanently. I would like to say human wisdom is key but saying anything is Key is deceptive. A keystone to humanity is wisdom and it is key to the individual also. The problem with wisdom today is humans are not scaled to our planetary system of natural cycles and the web of life. We are too large a footprint. There are instincts of our intellectual patterns driving action that are diverse caught in this out of scale footprint. We are in competitive and in overshoot. This then means wisdom can never be a key to success because human wisdom is overlapping in competition. The ability to have human wisdom globally is compromised now because we are not scaled. Human wisdom cannot regain effectiveness until our footprint is lowered.

    This then points to no hope for the status quo. No hope is deceptive too because this just means this status quo will not end well someday maybe immediately or maybe not. The status quo is mortal just like humans. There is hope until it is over. The hope is day by day survival hoping for another day of being alive with hope. Where there is this type of hope is the individual and the local. The key to effective wisdom can now only be found individually and locally when one attempts proper scale. Use the status quo to get to proper scale. In these times of macro destructive change you can effect positive formative change individually and locally. This is where you find the day by day hope. Let’s be clear many have no hope even if the status quo was flourishing. Some people are walking no hope people living in a day to day hell. We are all going to die and some are closer than others.

    Those who have individual and local hope can have empathy for others that don’t. Keep scale in mind because empathy is a scale danger. If you are blessed with the ability reach out within your scale and help another then you should do it. The reason is more than altruism it is also what makes your local stronger. This is also true of the dying environment. Take a piece of your dying local environment and heal it.

    Another individual act in your local is assemble a monastery for those who are lucky enough to negotiate a human collapse. Leave them something as a guide that came from your experience. Experience is hard won knowledge that came by trial and error. The monastery is your own personal example of wisdom. It is what you have learned that can be used to survive and more importantly these days what you should not do. Today we are threatened by too much and too many things. Simplicity is gone and a zombie meaning pervades life. It is as if we are working harder and harder to kill ourselves but can’t figure out why. Your own individual monastery of local meaning can be a small beacon of meaning. It can be a flashlight in a dark world.

    There are many ways to deal with our civilization in decline individual and local is just one. It is for those who can. Those who can and are awakened to the end days. Some will choose bigger avenues of change with government and business. It does not really matter because no way will save us. It is over we just are not there yet. If that turns you off then that is fine too because you have choices. You can believe this time humans are exceptional and all previous history of failed civilization is different. Maybe you are right and I am wrong. I would say finally be honest with yourself because meaning degrades very quickly once the corruption of dishonesty occurs.

  14. intellectual nematode Alert! on Thu, 16th May 2019 4:58 am 

    Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 4:24 am

  15. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 6:08 am 

    “The transformation of risk & the predicament of risk management”
    https://tinyurl.com/yxomyznh doomsteaddiner korowics
    https://tinyurl.com/yyfxgnxz youtube

    “We have entered a period where the risks we face as a species are becoming potentially far more extreme in their impacts, more probable in their likelihood, and potentially irreversible in their duration. These risks are being manifested now and will increasingly be part of our lived experience. This transformation of risk has arisen due to a confluence of several general factors. I argue for and develop a systems perspective of this transformation of risk and point to some implications. I will discuss the limitations of risk management, but then also offer some pointers of where ameliorating action might be undertaken now, an issue of critical importance given the stakes involved.”

  16. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 6:14 am 

    Notice how Clogg totally ignores the article and start spamming about politics and of course his favorite “identity politics”..

    Vladimir Putin scores at least eight goals in hockey exhibition, then falls on face
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/10/vladimir-putin-hockey-fall-hockey-exhibition?fbclid=IwAR3eyIWwTYCYTr7KfrJJdZoM2fCZj29xd6EDiHXDMsa0EsVQp9lqzefU83o

    HAHAH!

  17. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 6:18 am 

    We have entered a period where I spam my stupid walls of text that one reads or cares about. I have nothing better to do, and I am banking on you having nothing better to do either than read my rambling cut and pastes and zero-hedge click-bait disinformation. Somebody please click on my tinyurls. I get paid by click and I need the money to buy more vaseline and lite-beer.

  18. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 6:19 am 

    CLogg

    Psychology is junk science..Freud was a weirdo..

    And you verified my argument.IQ is used to determine what kind of a conformist to the system (Sheep)you are..Anyone who goes against machine is labeled low IQ..That is why the Asian countries lead by China and India always have the highest scores, then ole whitey of Europe..

    It basically determines how much of a tool you are..

    Maybe if you actually went to college and got a STEM degree like I did..You would know this and know what “real’ evidence based science is..

  19. JuanP on Thu, 16th May 2019 6:24 am 

    This is a juanpee posting

    Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 6:18 am

    We have entered a period where I spam my stupid walls of text that one reads or cares about. I have nothing better to do, and I am banking on you having nothing better to do either than read my rambling cut and pastes and zero-hedge click-bait disinformation. Somebody please click on my tinyurls. I get paid by click and I need the money to buy more vaseline and lite-beer.

  20. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 7:00 am 

    No Davy dum-dum. It was ME, not P, I am inside your head, and you can’t get away from me.

    Muahahahahahahahahahahahah

  21. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 7:12 am 

    What trouble? I am so used to this annoying behavior it does not even affect me. It is like when I go out in the fields and deal with the elements. JuanPee or MOBster behavior is just like a gnat that I will swat. No problem just part of it. We don’t know if the above comment is a MOBster or a juanpee post because juanpee has made identity theft routine and daily. juanpee is a pest that should be IP banned. Since that is not going to occur I just swat him when he buzzes around my head. Just the way it is. FUCK JUANP AND OR MOBster

  22. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 8:18 am 

    There is no JuanP, only mobster.

  23. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 8:51 am 

    Stay out of it Cloggo. You approve of juanpee activity. You know it means less time for me to debate your spam. So you are being dishonest for your own ends. You should be thankful I don’t juanpee your ass.

  24. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 9:05 am 

    “You approve of juanpee activity.”

    Proof?

    I don’t approve of this juvenile spamming, it degrades this board to your level and mobster’s, the two most unserious people “on board” and not coincidental the two most outspoken zogbots here.

  25. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 9:51 am 

    clogggo, your full of shit and lies. You spam this board with a fantasy agenda and you approve of bad behavior if it benefits your agenda. Typical Natzi behavior. I probably have more proof to dig up if you continue to be a liar.

    JUANP PUPPETEERING
    I HATE DAVY on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 8:10 am Davy has so many enemies, including ones he doesn’t know about, it’s unbeleivable. Why? Because Davy is the biggest fucking douche bag to walk this planet. Yeah, I’m not on ur list and I fucking hate ur guts as well Davy boy. God, how I wish Davy boy and me went to school together. I would have punded his fucking face and loved it.
    JUANP PUPPETEERING
    I HATE DAVY on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 8:18 am Forgot to say why I hate u. Every part, every fiber of who ur reeks like the most stinking garbage dump imagainable- u make the smell of rotting flesh smell better than the odor u emit. U have so many goddamned enemies u can’t keep track. Its because you are a vile quasi human wretch. EVERY NEGATIVE HUMAN TRAIT U EMBODY IN SPADES. NO WONDER U ARE SO UNIVERSALLY HATED.
    JUANP ADMITTING
    JuanP on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 8:59 am OK, Davy, I take credit for fucking with you. I will fuck with you for as long as I can; I enjoy doing it. ROFLMFAO! Come on, Exceptionalist, grow a pair and take it like a man. It is time you fought some real battles and stopped hiding behind your murdering, criminal, terrorist government. Go take back the streets of St. Louis! LOL! You are such a sad fuck, Exceptionalist! Not even your children love you!
    DAVY SHOWING DISCOVERY TO NEDER
    Davy on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 9:09 am Satisfied neder?
    NEDER AGREEING
    Cloggie on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 9:26 am JuanP, perhaps you concentrate on more positive subjects, like perma-culture and scale back a little on personal attacks.
    DAVY IDENTITY THEFT
    Davy on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 4:11 pm I forgot to add, I hate you too nederdumbassNazis. Ive called you a disgusting semi-human on many occasions. Though are the best friend I have in this world, and will ever have, I still hate you.
    JUAN P DECEPTIVELY BACK PEDDLING
    JuanP on Sat, 3rd Nov 2018 8:19 pm Someone is stealing my identity and reposting old comments after editing them. It has to be Delusional Davy. Please tell me we don’t have more than one derandged lunatic on the board! With the Exceptionalist it is more than enough. ROFLMFAO! You are all a bunch of freaks. I am the only one here who is NOT bat shit crazy! I swear! I am sane! I swear! ROFLMFAO!

    Well, here is the classic board lunatic playing his deranged games. We have all the games here. We have puppeteering, identity theft, admitting the games, attacks, then deceptive backpedaling. We also have neder playing his denial games then agreeing.

  26. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 10:00 am 

    Those are all examples from last year, with typical, recognizable JuanP style, that is completely lacking in later posts with his false nick.

    There is only one identity thief here and that is from the representative of the one and only Deceiver Race.

    But what do you know.

  27. Davy on Thu, 16th May 2019 10:14 am 

    please cloggo enough of your shit just stay out of it. How about that? You got enough deeptions to spread. Don’t take on one you don’t benefit from. junapee loves this kind of attention. Would you like me to juanpee you for a week like he does me? I can make the time and forget my other interests. It would just be an experiment with a one week end date.

  28. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 10:45 am 

    EU gives the finger to Washington and proceeds in setting up an MIC independent of the US MIC.

    https://m.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/edf-und-pesco-eu-lehnt-forderungen-der-usa-zu-ruestung-ab-a-1267754.html

    Washington had demanded in harsh tones that the EU would drop the idea.

  29. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 10:46 am 

    Majority of Europeans ‘expect end of EU within 20 years’

    Three in 10 think conflict among EU countries is a realistic possibility, survey finds.

    More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation.

    In France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Slovakia, Romania, Greece, the Czech Republic and Poland, a majority of people surveyed thought EU disintegration was a “realistic possibility” in the next 10 to 20 years.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/15/majority-of-europeans-expect-end-of-eu-within-20-years

    This proves how out touch reality clogg is and the majority of Europeans..

  30. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 11:29 am 

    The EU is German and French hegemony, mostly paid for by German money.

    Once the Germans won’t (or can’t) pay, watch for deepening rifts.When disaster strikes Europe, it will have nowhere the resiliency of the a United States.

    A little shared culture, no shared language, it’s a supracountry built purely on €€€ and can easily go the way of Austro-Hungaria or the Ottoman empire when the reign of the € is threatened.

  31. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 12:02 pm 

    Twenty years is very far away.

    Mobster should worry about his own country, ruined by third world immigration, don’t give that 5 more years:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrI8Qrigr8

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-30/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-american-empire

    It is very well possible that the EU and its core idea: “an ever closer union” will fail. The European right wants to replace the EU with the Gaullist principle of “Europe of the Fatherlands”.

    And again: the rise of China will dictate the behavior of the rest of Eurasia.

  32. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 12:24 pm 

    “More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation.”

    Liar, that’s not what they said.

    https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_seven_days_to_save_the_european_union

    With the European Parliament election just around the corner, support for EU membership is at a record high – two-thirds of Europeans currently believe it is a good thing, the largest share since 1983 – and yet a majority also fear that the European Union might collapse.

    “Fear” means that you DON’T want something to happen, but are worrying that it might.

    It is like EU president Donald Tusk from less political-correct Poland has said recently: “if the EU will fall apart it will be because of immigration”.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/891679/EU-migration-policy-Donald-Tusk-Dimitris-Avramopoulos-council-refugees

    Tusk RIPS EU apart with migration policy: Fury at EU chief for ‘anti-european’ proposal

    That madness was imposed on us by the US empire.

    We can save Europe if we finally get rid of our tormentors and its local cock-sucker vassals in Europe, and if necessary carry out the dirty job with all identitarians of this world, most of all Chinese, Russians and Muslims.

    Are you ready for war, mobster, empire dave? Because you are going to get it. Eurasia smells blood, ZOG-blood, as effectively your own leaders have thrown the towel in the ring:

    https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2019/01/07/the-good-news-zog-is-dying/

    The corps may be still above the ground and be warm, but the burial is next.

  33. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 1:06 pm 

    Theresa May breaks down emotionally over frustration with Brexit, hard-Brexiteers smell blood:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7035607/PM-showdown-party-secret-location-stop-leaks-MPs-predict-blood-walls.html

    “Tories give ‘tearful’ May two weeks before she must set a date for leaving as Boris makes his move: Johnson FINALLY confirms he will run, as MPs say PM MUST state departure timetable by June”

    “Boris goes for the kill”

    ‘The PM is frustrated at not being able to deliver Brexit as she promised,’ the MP said. ‘She was quite emotional.

    Theresa May, one of the few reasonable people in snake pit West-Minster.

    Hoooooowever… the interesting little tidbit is that mr Brexit Farage is threatening to split the conservative vote, with Jeremy Corbyn could being ending up the laughing third:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7036899/Corbyn-blames-climate-emergency-unveils-Labour-plan-renationalise-energy-network.html

    “Corbyn unveils Labour plan to nationalise the energy network as critics blast socialist ‘green revolution’ to seize power lines and give poor Britons free solar electricity to stop ‘climate emergency’”

    Corbyn maybe a Brexiteer by conviction, but he dislikes American oligarchs and their capitalism even more than the Brussels bunch.

  34. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 1:46 pm 

    CLogg

    Those fears are not unfounded..No real shared culture..No shared language..And nazi’s taking over..

    And you are the world second largest oil importer with a global shortage coming..If the people polled even knew about that I bet 100 percent would fear a imminent collapse..

    You dumbass..And Europe’s GDP and economy will have zero in a decade..On top all the other issues mentioned above..

    Check mate..

  35. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 2:05 pm 

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48290760

    “Theresa May agrees to set timetable to choose successor”

    “Theresa May has promised to set a timetable for the election of her successor after the next Brexit vote in the first week of June.”

    The EU should increase pressure and keep the honor to itself and say that if Westminster votes no again, no-deal Brexit happens one hour after the vote. This will do nothing to help the vote succeed, but at least we have this farce ended and put the blame on British politics for the history books.

  36. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 2:26 pm 

    Europe has a Roman emperor again

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48264638

  37. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 16th May 2019 2:43 pm 

    clogg

    Remember what happened last time far right nationalist took over Europe? You got crushed into powder..

    Those who don’t learn history..

    HAHAA

    Go far right populist! I hope they take over the whole region..Then the civil war comes..

    LOL

  38. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 2:45 pm 

    “From Russia with love”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/arron-banks-profile-the-brexiteer-his-russian-wife-and-their-family-runabout-mi5-spy-nj00skhjk

    “Arron Banks profile: The Brexiteer, his Russian wife and their family runabout: MI5 SPY”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/09/revealed-detail-of-exclusive-russian-deal-offered-to-arron-banks-in-brexit-run-up

    “Revealed: details of exclusive Russian deal offered to Arron Banks in Brexit run-up”

    The long arm of the Kremlin.

    And tonight the bombshell:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-brexit-party-arron-banks-salary-us-brexit-lifestyle-a8917281.html

    “Arron Banks ‘bankrolled Nigel Farage’s lavish lifestyle with £450,000 funding’, investigation finds”

    The “conspiracy theory” is that Russia is intentionally pushing the UK out of the EU…. in order to take its place and blow up the West.

    Russia collusion to believe in.

  39. Cloggie on Thu, 16th May 2019 2:50 pm 

    “Remember what happened last time far right nationalist took over Europe? You got crushed into powder..”

    That was because the USSR, France and the British empire were on your sude, volunteering to do the dirty work for you.

    This time around Eurasia is going to crush you, not in the least because large numbers of European-Americans have enough of ZOG:

    https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/10/26/the-new-america/

    It’s going to be a walkover.

    Revenge for communism and WW2 is underway.

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