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Record Fukushima radiation levels found on southern California coast

Record radiation levels from the Fukushima power plant were found off the coast of Southern California. Radioactive cesium was measured  on a beach between San Diego and Los Angelos. The nuclear waste was detected in early April 2015, meaning toxic levels of radiation have been plaguing the West Coast since early spring.

Approximately 8.4 becquerels per cubic meter of radioactive cesium was detected off the coast of Del Mar, California, which is located 15 miles north of San Diego and 100 miles south of Los Angeles. Woods Hole, the country’s oldest marine aquarium, also detected radioactive waste from the Fukushima plant along the shoreline of North America in Ucluelet, Canada, which is about 1,200 miles north of Del Mar.(1,2)

Approximately 7.2 becquerels per cubic meter of Cesium-134 and Cesium-137 was measured in a Ucluelet in February. Cesium-137 is a lethal radioactive isotope, usually a product of nuclear fall out, that infects the soil and water. It has a half-life of about 30 years, meaning it will continue to plague the West Coast for decades. Exposure to the contaminate is linked to increased risk of cancer. In high amounts, Cesium-137 can cause serious skin burns and even death.(2)

“As the plume begins to arrive along the West Coast [it] will actually increase in concentration… no public agency in the US is monitoring the activities in the Pacific… Without careful, extensive, consistent monitoring, we’ll have no way of knowing how much radiation from Fukushima is reaching our shores, and how it could affect life in the ocean,” according to research scientist Ken Buesseler.(1)

Other dangerous radioactive isotopes may creep up on the shores of California as well. According to the media report, “radioactive isotopes of iodine, low levels of plutonium and tritium might be in the plume.”2

90 Comments on "Record Fukushima radiation levels found on southern California coast"

  1. drwater on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 7:41 pm 

    Regarding CD-137:
    “Health Concerns: Exposure can be through ingestion, inhalation, or just being near it (since it emits gamma radiation)
    In humans, is flushed from the body fairly quickly.
    Exposure Levels
    EPA has established a maximum contaminant level of 4 millirem per year for beta particle and photon radioactivity from man-made radionuclides in drinking water. Cesium-137 would be covered under this MCL. The average concentration of cesium-137 which is assumed to yield 4 mrem/year is 200 picocuries per liter.”

    FYI 200 picocuries per liter equals about 7400 becquerels per liter, or about 1000 x what they measured. So you would have to be exposed to the level they found continuously for a YEAR (presumably through DRINKING it) to get 0.1% of the dose where EPA even starts getting concerned about health effects.

  2. Makati1 on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 8:14 pm 

    drwater, do you actually believe the EPA? Maybe you work for them? Because they are owned by the chemical and nuclear industry and have a record of covering up the real costs of those industries.

    They stopped monitoring/reporting the radioactivity levels when they were obviously going to exceed the limits on safety. Now they are putting out propaganda saying that anything is safe if they say so. Bullshit!

    You can carry an ounce of gold, but if you add an ounce everyday, how many days does it take to break your back? Ditto for radiation accumulation. How many days/years does it take to kill you?

    Logic works better then any government ‘report’. Especially when that info comes from a State/Federal supported source, and controlled by big industry.

  3. Makati1 on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 9:01 pm 

    In other news:

    Looks like help is coming for those in America that cannot cope.

  4. Rodster on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 9:22 pm 

    “Fukushima Radiation Impacts on Environment: “Morphological Defects” Found in Japanese Fir Trees around Fukushima Nuclear Plant”

  5. dubya on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 9:25 pm 

    Mak, the little information available indicates there is ‘measurable’ contamination. People are very good at measuring this stuff, so it is still at infinitesimal concentrations in seawater. So the argument that you would have to drink a LOT of seawater to notice anything is indeed true.

    However, I am much more concerned about biological concentration. most things concentrate up the food chain – I don’t know about Cs. So eating a fish with this might allow small particles to integrate into your body, which would be very bad. I would happily swim in the Pacific, but I am very concerned about eating Pacific seafood (which swims past my house).

  6. diemos on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 9:44 pm 

    It was 20 Bq/m3 in the 50s and 60s from atmospheric testing.

  7. surf on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 10:21 pm 

    1 becquerel is one atom decaying per second. So 8 becquerel is only 8 atoms decaying per second in one cubic meter of soil i. That is way below EPA limits and is not hazardous. A typical banana has emits 15 becquerels of radiation per gram. You are safer at the beach then at the grocery store.

  8. SilentRunning on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 11:20 pm 

    drwater wrote:
    FYI 200 picocuries per liter equals about 7400 becquerels per liter, or about 1000 x what they measured.

    Actually, they measured 8.4 becquerels per CUBIC METER. A cubic meter is 1000 liters, so the EPA safe drinking level is 7.4 MILLION becquerels per cubic meter!

    It’s important to realize that natural potassium-40 radiation gives seawater an activity of *300* pC/liter or about 11,000 becquerels per liter or 11 MILLION becquerels per cubic meter.

    So adding 8.4 becquerels of radiation to an existing 11 million Bq level is really a tiny, tiny change. The only reason its detectable is because it has a somewhat different gamma ray spectrum.

  9. SilentRunning on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 11:25 pm 

    Notice to residents of California:

    DO NOT – repeat – DO NOT consume Pacific ocean water by the millions of cubic meters necessary to become potentially sickened by radiation from the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

    You will certainly die – not from the radiation – but by your stomach exploding LONG before you reach a serious amount of radiation.

    You have been warned.

  10. SilentRunning on Sun, 30th Aug 2015 11:46 pm 

    Rodster wrote:
    >“Fukushima Radiation Impacts on Environment: “Morphological Defects” Found in Japanese Fir Trees around Fukushima Nuclear Plant”

    Yes, clearly close to the Fukushima plant there are serious, damaging amounts of radiation.

    But there is not thousands of miles away in California.

    The natural radiation in the Pacific ocean water off the coast of California is LITERALLY 1 million times greater than the tiny miniscule amount from Fukushima – and is only detectable because we have incredibly sensitive instruments.

    Being afraid of the water from California because of Fukushima is like being afraid of a AA battery because you’ve heard that people can be electrocuted by electricity.

  11. apneaman on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 12:30 am 

    Toxic link: the WHO and the IAEA

    A 50-year-old agreement with the IAEA has effectively gagged the WHO from telling the truth about the health risks of radiation

    “Fifty years ago, on 28 May 1959, the World Health Organisation’s assembly voted into force an obscure but important agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency – the United Nations “Atoms for Peace” organisation, founded just two years before in 1957. The effect of this agreement has been to give the IAEA an effective veto on any actions by the WHO that relate in any way to nuclear power – and so prevent the WHO from playing its proper role in investigating and warning of the dangers of nuclear radiation on human health.

    The WHO’s objective is to promote “the attainment by all peoples of the highest possible level of health”, while the IAEA’s mission is to “accelerate and enlarge the contribution of atomic energy to peace, health and prosperity throughout the world”. Although best known for its work to restrict nuclear proliferation, the IAEA’s main role has been to promote the interests of the nuclear power industry worldwide, and it has used the agreement to suppress the growing body of scientific information on the real health risks of nuclear radiation.

    Under the agreement, whenever either organisation wants to do anything in which the other may have an interest, it “shall consult the other with a view to adjusting the matter by mutual agreement”. The two agencies must “keep each other fully informed concerning all projected activities and all programs of work which may be of interest to both parties”. And in the realm of statistics – a key area in the epidemiology of nuclear risk – the two undertake “to consult with each other on the most efficient use of information, resources, and technical personnel in the field of statistics and in regard to all statistical projects dealing with matters of common interest”.

    The language appears to be evenhanded, but the effect has been one-sided. For example, investigations into the health impacts of the Chernobyl nuclear accident in Ukraine on 26 April 1986 have been effectively taken over by IAEA and dissenting information has been suppressed. The health effects of the accident were the subject of two major conferences, in Geneva in 1995, and in Kiev in 2001. But the full proceedings of those conferences remain unpublished – despite claims to the contrary by a senior WHO spokesman reported in Le Monde Diplomatique.”

    Long-term effects of radiation exposure on health<

  12. GregT on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 1:38 am 

    “Being afraid of the water from California because of Fukushima is like being afraid of a AA battery because you’ve heard that people can be electrocuted by electricity.”

    It’s generally agreed that 100-200 mA is potentially deadly, causing fibrillations if applied across the heart. This can easily be produced by a single alkaline AA battery (Duracell, Energizer, or similar), which has an energy capacity of 1800-2600 milliamp-hours.

  13. Dredd on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 5:58 am 

    Oil-Qaeda is pissed to lose the record.

    Lower oil prices may bring on more death and a return to first place.

    The Authoritarianism of Climate Change

  14. Makati1 on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 6:29 am 

    dubya, the radiation is ‘eaten’ by plankton, that are eaten by krill, that are eaten by sardines, that are eaten by mackerel, that are eaten by tuna, that end up on your table. Each step multiplies the radiation concentrated in the meat. Ditto for any food source that absorbs nutrients and condenses them in their body, even fruits and veggies. The radiation may not kill them quick enough before they become food for the next up the chain and eventually you. The dose that would be harmful to children would be much lower than for an adult or a fetus.

    I may have taken biology 52 years ago, but radiation is radiation. Nothing has changed except the amounts we are exposed to today.

  15. Makati1 on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 6:30 am 

    Oops! … The dose that would be harmful to children or a fetus, would be much lower than for an adult. …

  16. joe on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 8:09 am 

    Imagine how much got released to cause the levels detected an ocean away. Any math guys wanna figure that one? Does it match the public figures?
    Anyway, the say nature has recovered much better from Chernobyl than many thought would.
    We are here and we come from the explosion of the universe…..
    Things can always turn out much better than they initially seem.

  17. Kenz300 on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 8:58 am 

    Nuclear energy is too costly and too dangerous…..
    The cost to store nuclear waste FOREVER is too high…..

    There are safer, cleaner and cheaper ways to generate electricity.

    Wind, Natural Gas, Solar Provide More U.S. Power, Replacing Coal


    Solar Beats Gas in Colorado – Renewable Energy World

  18. penury on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 9:27 am 

    It is entertaining to read the ignorant and dangerous comments from the brainwashed fools who believe that radiation is not really harmful to humans. Has anyone heard about the mass extinction occurring off the coast of the U.S? Folk if the Krill die, the food chain disruption will be a pain for humans, Right? Do some research, what is the cumulative dose in a period of three months for a creature which spends 24/7 in the water that some think is safe. The little fish are eaten by the bigger fish and the bigger fish have already bio accumulated radiation which will be passed up the food change and to help out what I would recommend in a diet high in Krill and seafood from the Pacific, if the sea life is dying that might be a signal that we are being lied to. NO my govt has never lied to us before. Right?

  19. Davy on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 9:33 am 

    I eat allot of salmon. Any of you guys have an opinion on its safety. Some appears to be farm raised in the Atlantic but I love to buy wild Alaskan salmon. I am worried about the Alaskan Salmon.

  20. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 9:36 am 

    Kenz300: “Nuclear energy is too costly and too dangerous…..
    The cost to store nuclear waste FOREVER is too high…..
    There are safer, cleaner and cheaper ways to generate electricity.
    Wind, Natural Gas, Solar Provide More U.S. Power, Replacing Coal”

    Kenz! But we’re going to the Moon, Mars, and to eventually join with our extraterrestrial brothers and sisters inhabiting the Rings of Uranus. Nuclear, FF, wind, and solar won’t get us off planet where we are destined to go; only otherworldly faith in techno-optimism will do that.

    The word is that Elon Musk has discovered HUGE deposits of dilithium crystals in Mexico, the Atacama, and near where he is building his gigafactory.

    Musk is going to save humanity by producing tens of thousands of Teslas as a loss leader losing thousands of dollars per unit (tens of thousands ex subsidies) to be the exemplar for faith in techno-optimism.

    We’re saved!!! Soon we will be uploading our consciousnesses into virtual humachines powered by dilithium crystals that will prepare us to leave the planet to explore the cosmos as immortal beings.

    This is going to be so exciting!!! 😀

  21. apneaman on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 9:48 am 

    Davy, it will be a moot point soon enough as far as most seafood goes. Have you tried the cannonball jellyfish yet? Mmmmmm cannonball jellyfish

  22. penury on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 9:58 am 

    Davy, I have no data to show safety of Wild Salmon from the Pacific, however the data from the fishing industry in Alaska, Wa, Or, seems to indicate that wild salmon populations are being greatly stressed. This is caused by the confluence of the increased ocean temperature (the Blob) the drought in the western part of N. Amer. causing low water flow on the streams leading to the ocean which causes temps to be higher that the young can survive. The food source appears to be more limited than usual and the returns of the runs are less than normal. But whatever you do skip the farm raised salmon.

  23. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 10:25 am 

    Davy, I know a few pertinent facts about your salmon inquiry. First, even since the Fukushima accident happened radiation contamination has been occurring into the Pacific ocean on a pretty continuous basis in accord with various sources. Second, radiation is much much worse ingested then from ambient contamination. So me, I am not eating Pacific salmon period. Just like by the way I do not eat Hershey chocolate from hearing of contamination from Three Mile Island disaster. No I do not believe the EPA assurances everything is OK.

  24. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:02 am 

    Recall, gents, that the EPA exists to set the standards for how much “corporate persons” (and gov’t) can pollute and where and still make a profit.

    You and I risk going to jail or being fined punitively if we get caught dumping engine oil down the storm drain.

    Life is more than fair . . ., if one can afford to pay for it.

  25. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:19 am 

    What did Christie Whitman head of the EPA during 911 say, to paraphrase, the air is okay. Well NO, since many of gotten sick and some have died. EPA, FDA, USDA etc. not to be trusted. Many prescription drugs are not safe, some products sold as organic are not etc. etc.

  26. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:21 am 

    Just to be fair and not single out US, Japanese govt has been hiding deaths of Tepco workers. So all governments lie to protect themselves and their real constituents rich people and corporations.

  27. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:31 am 

    onlooker, corporations are people, and corporations own gov’ts, so gov’ts are people, i.e., slaves to corporations, too.

    So, have some compassion for corporate people, will ya? Can’t we all just get along? 😀

  28. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:35 am 

    If they do not mess with me I will not mess with them 🙂

  29. Davy on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:42 am 

    Thanks for the Salmon update.

    More and more of my favorite foods are going disappear. This is why I am spiritual about food. We are near a point of food insecurity food choice availability issues. Again this is surreal because for 50 plus years I have been able to eat what I want. Amazing to think of empty grocery stores that are in our future.

  30. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:43 am 

    onlooker, and I was just messin’ witchu. 🙂

  31. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 11:47 am 

    BC, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. haha. Davy, yes a lot of surreal things going on right now, we all have to accept these now uncomfortable realities cause what else can we do.

  32. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 12:02 pm

    Davy, you need to have more faith in our Soylent future. Free the body!

    You just can’t let it bug you. 😀

    Besides, with 7 billion human apes on the planet and counting, human apes who “really like” other human apes will never starve to death. It’s all just a matter of tastes and preferences. 😀

    Who’s hungry?! 🙂

  33. Davy on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 12:31 pm 

    BC, the problem will be distribution of soylent. Is it possible to have localized organic soylent farmers markets? I am not up on the stuff yet.

  34. shortonoil on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 12:39 pm 

    “I eat allot of salmon. Any of you guys have an opinion on its safety. Some appears to be farm raised in the Atlantic but I love to buy wild Alaskan salmon. I am worried about the Alaskan Salmon.”

    I wouldn’t eat a Pacific salmon if it was seasoned with gold dust, and had diamonds stuck in its eyes. Ask John Wayne and Rita Hayward how safe, safe levels of radiation are? Oh, you can’t – they’re dead. Then ask the rest of the cast of that movie; the 42% of them that developed cancer over the next decade. Not many of them to ask either, the mortality rate was astronomically high. Then ask the staff of the AEC how much Pacific salmon they eat. If any say they still do, buy a life insurance policy on them.

  35. apneaman on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 12:48 pm 

    The World on Fire: Record-Breaking Wildfires, Greenland Melting and Earth’s Hottest Month Ever

    “The US is now officially in the worst wildfire season in its history, as almost 7.5 million acres across the country have burned up since spring.

    Articles about ACD’s impacts are now being published in more mainstream outlets, carrying titles that include verbiage like “the point of no return,” and it is high time for that, given what we are witnessing.

    A recently published study by the UK-US Taskforce on Extreme Weather and Global Food System Reliance revealed that “major shocks” to worldwide food production will become at least three times more likely within the next 25 years due to increasingly extreme weather events generated by ACD. One of the coauthors of the report warned of a “very frightening” future due to the synthesis of ACD and food demands from a constantly growing global population.

    Meanwhile, July officially became the hottest month ever recorded on the planet, setting 2015 on course to easily become the hottest year ever recorded.”

  36. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 1:06 pm 

    These statistics speak for themselves thanks AP

  37. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 1:41 pm

    One for the burning theme, mates.

    Davy, I was being facetious about Soylent. I suspect the creator is ahead of his time in some respects, but I’m not sure how practical it will be for even a fraction of the population ever.


    Salmon, steelhead, halibut, crab, and shrimp were among my favorite indulgences until 4-5 years ago when I essentially gave them up, partly for ecological and health reasons but admittedly mostly because of the soaring cost.

  38. BobInget on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 2:00 pm 

    Solar radiation spotted off Florida coast. Caution
    advised. Radiation predicted to move Westerly.

  39. drwater on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 2:04 pm 

    FYI for those who asked about bioaccumulation:

    “The Concentration Factors (CF=Bq kg(-1) wet weight/Bq l(-1) seawater) increased from 10+/-3 for a mixed sample of krill and amphipods to 165+/-5 for harbour porpoises.”

    So probably figure on about 10 or 20x for sockeye and about 100x for other salmon. Still below EPA MCLs (even though MCLs are for drinking water, not food).

    And no Mak – I don’t work for the EPA, but I do a fair amount of work with drinking water limits and know the science that goes behind them.

  40. BobInget on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 2:10 pm 

    Shortonoil, do ya think smoking cigarettes might have contributed to John Wayne’s premature passing? (at 72)

    Wayne, John, 72, actor; After exposure to nuclear radiation, cancer took a lung in 1963; had many battles with heart disease and other cancers. (June 11, 1979)
    Stagecoach; Red River; Fort Apache; Rio Grande; She Wore a Yellow Ribbon; The Searchers and this Camel commercial:

  41. penury on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 2:26 pm 

    drwater: thanks for the info on bio accum people tend to forget that accumulation will continue for the time it takes for the elimination from the body, so the safe level needs to be correlated by the time factor. Anyways over the long haul we are all dead anyway.

  42. beamofthewave on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 2:49 pm 

    what movie was John Wayne exposed to nuclear radiation in?

  43. apneaman on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 3:25 pm 

    Nothing is more important than complete accuracy on the root causes of great pacific die off. We would not want to misattribute the reason for the extinction of most marine life that may very well lead to ape extinction. It’s of the utmost importance to pin point exactly which one of our stupid endeavours already locked in a horrific future and especially for the kids and grandkids. It’s especially important for those with tons of formal education (especially the science-engineering boys) who were indoctrinated in nuclear industry propaganda starting in elementary school. None more so than white male middle class Americans who will never never accept that they were tricked and used by powerful people in the same way as the economics 101 true believers or the America is a force for good true believers, etc and all flavors of American mythology. 100% certain in their certainty. Cling to your stories – they won’t save you. If there are any of our descendants around in a century they will look back on techno carbon man as the worst most demented society that ever existed. They will see the Aztec’s as rational and gentle compared to us. They might say, sure the Aztecs sacrificed tens of thousands of people to their gods to fulfil their deep seated insecurities, but thats nothing compared to techno man – he sacrificed billions and trashed the planet for 1000 generations to come just to amuse himself for 250 years with 10,000,000 times more power and goodies than any other humans ever had or ever will/can and it was only a minority of them (mostly the white ones) – A curse on them motherfuckers forever.

  44. BC on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 3:37 pm 

    apneaman, I’m sympathetic to your view. But I also suspect that the techno-scientific elites’ remnant generations might be succeed in adapting, surviving, and maintaining a self-sustaining population at the expense of the vast majority of the rest of us and ours.

    If so, the remnant generations’ narrative might be that their techno-genocidal depopulating of the planet of most human apes was a rational, morally defensible, and even compassionate act that served the remnant generations’ interests and evolutionary prospects thereafter.

    I tend to give absolute power, elite self-preservation, and evolutionary will to power the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Therefore, I fully expect the Anglo-American and European rentier elite and their techno-scientific, managerial, and technocratic facilitators to rationalize all manner of what we today perceive as unspeakable acts to achieve their longer-term objectives in the context of Peak Oil, overshoot, resource depletion per capita, and climate change.

    I’m resolved to the prospect, even though I have little or no reason to believe that I and mine will be among the remnant.

    It’s realism, pragmatism, and stoicism, not necessarily pessimism or fatalism.

  45. penury on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 3:56 pm 

    apneaman you are so right. If there ever was a hope of doing anything in the disaster which was Fuk Shima it was wasted by the inaction of the world and the constant lies of the govs involved. People who actually know the subject and could have spoken with authority to mitigate some effects were silenced. Security blackouts imposed and actions taken to deny information to the public. It of course was done to prevent panic in the population and assure the survival of the ruling elite.

  46. Jim on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 4:08 pm 

    You really think they care about the radiation on our shores. They don’t. They consider this payback for horishima and nagasakai.

  47. apneaman on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 4:30 pm 

    BC, no doubt they would do it if they could, but the infrastructure is already coming apart and is taking an ever increasing beating from climate disruption it was not engineered for and it’s just the first inning, plus once the gloves come off it will get a big push from some of the malcontents. Can they protect it all? Can they protect every transmission tower that can be brought down with some hand tools and rigging gear by a couple of rebels? How many generations of guys are there in America that have been trained in demolition by uncle sam. See what the “insurgents” do in the middle east? Imagine that all over N America and Europe. Are they going to make a place for each and everyone of them? Look around the world today and look at the history of what happens to large groups of young men when you disenfranchise them. I could see someone using that feminization of the work force to whip up some extra special hate. Rich high tech Europe cannot even handle the trickle of migrants today with all their resources – wait until it’s in the hundreds of millions or a billion. Unspeakable acts can and have been carried out by all sorts of once gentle folks throughout history after TPTB start killing their families and friends. Just start oppressing them big time and see what you get. Ape behaviour is easy to predict. I suppose the elite plan on using the same military that could not get fuckall done in Iraq even though they spent 3 trillion dollars? Or maybe they will use Eric Prince until Eric Prince decides he wants to be king and orders his men to take the elite out (spare the tech folks) which is what usually happens when societies collapse big – the military guys take advantage of the opening. No my guess is we will see one big clusterfuck and lets not pretend that the elite are the Borg all working in unison. These are cunning paranoid, greedy, insatiable, power hungry people that will just as likely start knocking each other off in a bid to grab control of the remaining goodies. That chaos will go on for a time then the laws of physics, chemistry and biology will take over and all or most of the apes will be gone.

  48. onlooker on Mon, 31st Aug 2015 5:22 pm 

    Well I would not wish on my worst enemy the fate of being a survivor among the remnants of humanity. The descendants of the elite of today basically ruling over a vast wasteland, in the ashes of a once advanced world-wide civilization. Probably without any prospects to revive any semblance of a modern society and having to try and ignore all the death and mayhem that would be fresh in their minds. So careful what you wish for.

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