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A Master Class on Overconsumption and Climate Change

Enviroment

Hope Jahren is a formidable scientist, and a formidable writer about science. With this, her second book, she shows she is also a formidable science educator.

Jahren describes how her heart sank when she was asked to teach an undergraduate course on climate change. But she rose to the challenge, and this book appears to be her extended course notes. So it’s not only a remarkable introduction to climate change; it’s also a master class on course design that any teacher should be eager to sign up for.

One problem for any course planner is estimating what the students already know. Go over too much familiar material, and they’ll be bored. Drop them in at the deep end, and they’ll be lost. We all know something about climate change, and that includes teenagers, who will turn to their phones as soon as the lecture material gets too simple or too hard. And they sure as hell won’t be checking Wikipedia for definitions of climatology.

Jahren is way ahead of them. Surprise is a great technique for getting and holding student attention. So she brings up familiar topics like Thomas Malthus, and then startles us with facts about his population theories that we didn’t know. She traces worries about overpopulation all the way back to Mesopotamia 4,000 years ago; she finds that despite the warnings of people like Aristotle and Malthus, population has doubled and doubled and doubled again. When she was born in 1969, she tells us, world population was 3.5 billion; now, half a century later, it’s more than doubled to 7.8 billion.

Malthus and his disciples argued that any growing population would overshoot its food supply; Jahren surprises us by bringing in the 19th-century Henry George, who thought the problem wasn’t people, but people who wouldn’t share. “It is because so many of us consume far above our needs,” Jahren says, “that a great many more of us are left with almost nothing.”

In a series of short chapters that would be knockout lectures, Jahren takes us through the history of producing more food and more energy, and producing more heat in the process. She sticks to her pattern: a little bit of historical background but mostly change since 1969 (“the olden days” to anyone born at the turn of this century); her own personal experiences; some gobsmacking numbers; and the sheer, enormous “moreness” that’s sustained us all since she was born.

For example, Jahren grew up in Minnesota, in the Middle West. She tells us it produces astounding quantities of corn: a billion bushels in 1865, five billion bushels when she was a girl in the 1970s, and 15 billion bushels today. Then she sandbags us: the U.S. produces so much corn that it must work hard to get rid of it.

“We eat processed corn not only as cornmeal,” she writes, “but also in forms as varied as gum, acid, wax and MSG (monosodium glutamate), as well as the more recognizable starches, sugars and oil. Nevertheless, human consumption of corn uses up only 10 per cent of the U.S. annual harvest. Where does the rest of it go?”

Part of the answer: “In the world today, a billion tons of grain are eaten by humans while at the same time, a different billion tons of grain are offered to animals as feed. From all this feed, we get about 100 million tons of meat and 300 million tons of feces.”

And to supply just some of that meat, we learn, “Thirty-million cattle are slaughtered each year in the Great Plains of Nebraska, Colorado and Kansas. A whopping nine billion chickens are slaughtered each year across the Feather Belt that stretches from Arkansas to Georgia. One-hundred and twenty million pigs are slaughtered each year in the upper Midwest states that surround Iowa.”

The moreness of Atlantic salmon should be especially vivid for us here in B.C. The Norwegians set up the first fish farm in 1969; now they run countless farms not only in Norway but in Chile and B.C. Fish farming has increased its production since the 1970s by 20,000 per cent, to almost three million tons. The cost to our oceans has been staggering.

“To get one pound of salmon,” Jahren explains, “you need three pounds of fish meal. To get a pound of fish meal, you need to grind up five pounds of fish…. At present, about one-third of the total catch fished out of the oceans is ground up into fish meal and then fed to fish that live in pens.” The fish taken from the sea are removed from the food chain that sustains other fish as well as marine mammals. And as we know too well, fish farms in our waters are threatening our own wild salmon.

Jahren’s approach works equally well in her analysis of our ever-growing energy use; even “renewable” sources of electricity have their costs. She effectively makes the case that some of us, in our quest for more, are harming not only ecosystems and the climate — we are harming most other human beings, those who live in poor countries and have contributed almost nothing to our emissions and their consequences. She also makes it clear that we could all live pretty well on a lot less.

Many readers will see how less can be more and change their lives accordingly — by eating less meat (or none), minimizing travel, and so on. The book concludes with sections on what individuals can do, and they make sense. Political action is not on Jahren’s agenda, however.

Perhaps she figures that anyone who grasps her facts and arguments will see the need for political action and act accordingly. Those actions should include plans for success: what happens to those who make a living off animal slaughter and burning fossil fuels, when we cease to want meat and international holidays? How will we sustain key social services like education, and especially public health?

The pandemic has given us just a glimpse of a low-emissions world, and most people seem to want to get back to the carefree world of 2019. Encouraging them to settle for the energy and food consumption of, say, 1960 will require millions of individual examples and effective political action. That could well be the subject of Hope Jahren’s next course, and her next book.

the tyee



53 Comments on "A Master Class on Overconsumption and Climate Change"

  1. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 11:40 am 

    Sign of the times: French OIL company Total invests in US truck company Hyzon. Reason: Hyzon is setting up a joint venture in EUROPE with Dutch hydrogen specialist Holthausen to produce hydrogen trucks in Europe:

    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/french-broad-energy-company-total-leads-strategic-investment-into-hyzon-motors-301149066.html

    “French broad energy company Total leads strategic investment into HYZON Motors”

    https://www.wattisduurzaam.nl/28177/energie-besparen/transport/holthausen-voert-productie-waterstofvrachtwagens-op-met-hyzon/

  2. DT on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 12:57 pm 

    News flash to all you clean green renewable energy zealots, hydrogen is not an energy source it is an energy carrier.

  3. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 1:41 pm 

    “News flash to all you clean green renewable energy zealots, hydrogen is not an energy source it is an energy carrier.“

    Nobody ever claimed that, you ignoramus.
    It is a storage medium for renewable electricity from wind and solar. Got it?

    Probably not.

    But hey, leave the energy cluster to the Europeans. You have other things to worry about:

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157

    “Americans Increasingly Believe Violence is Justified if the Other Side Wins“

    https://www.unz.com/article/yes-we-are-headed-for-violent-civil-war/

    “Yes, We Are Headed for Violent Civil War“

  4. FamousDrScanlon on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 1:57 pm 

    I’ve forgotten more about multi disciplinary climate science, paleoclimate (earth’s climate history) & extinction periods (we’re in the 7th mass extinction, not 6th) than y’all put together & no matter how bad y’all think it is, it’s worse. Much worse. The best case scenario is a fucking horror show, yet all indicators are pointing to worse.

    That being said, I have not given up any consuming to ‘save the planet’ (don’t need saving) & especially not to save any humans (not worth saving) who are an out of control collective cancer.

    It can be no other way given that human behaviour is authored by the forces of evolution & thermodynamics.

    I will continue to consume however the fuck I please – tons of enviro destroying meat washed down with copious amounts of industrial beer.

    My momentary gratifications trump a safe & habitable planet for your stupid kids & grand-kids. I don’t care that they’ll have little to no resources in their futile attempts to live past 40 either.

    My daily pleasures are all that matter. Now I go to eat a half pound of bacon & 4 eggs – a typical 1st world ‘keto diet’ meal – must remain healthy so I can enjoy my global 1%er lifestyle as long as possible.

  5. zero juan on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 2:15 pm 

    Two stupid juanPPee socks:

    FamousDrScanlon said I’ve forgotten more about multi disciplinary…

    DT said News flash to all you clean green renewable energy…

    widdle juanPPee why doesn’t superturd juanPPee use his FamousDrScanlon sock on the moderated side anymore?

  6. FamousDrScanlon on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 3:13 pm 

    zero reading comprehension skills

    The stupid, stupid and functionally illiterate, are the ones who cannot distinguish different writing styles. There are dozens of apps & web sites that one can copy&paste comments too that’ll distinguish writing styles for struggling readers like you, but of course that would ruin your paranoid, OMG! sock puppets under my bed game…AKA, your entire fucking life.

    Do you, like, order your groceries online so you don’t have to be disconnected from peakoil.com any longer than a piss break? Or perhaps your mommy does all the shopping?

  7. DT on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 3:19 pm 

    “It is a storage medium for renewable electricity from wind and solar. Got it?” Oh believe you me this ignoramus gets it, Taking wind and solar energy then turning it into hydrogen is never going to happen at scale. This is due to the fact that no at scale infrastructure exists for these Fossil fuel extenders, nor can it ever be built. It only exists in the hopium filled world of dreamers and con artists.

  8. zero juan on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 4:24 pm 

    PPee Juan and his stupid socks:

    FamousDrScanlon said Clog says “Grain is a worthless food and in…

    DT said “It is a storage medium for renewable electr…

    PPee, why don’t you bring out FamousDrScanlon on the moderated side anymore? Too stupid?

    FamousDrScanlon said zero reading comprehension skills The stupid, stup…

  9. jawagord on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 8:05 pm 

    I always feel stupider after reading something from the Tyee. Should have checked the source first.

  10. Davy on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 8:43 pm 

    I think apeman is JuanP jawbagoad. It does not get any more real stupider then that.

  11. ANAL ANsEL i read lab girl but one can not use it as a spring to discover lazy man farming the only thing i remember is trees vacate all water from the body in the winter on Sun, 11th Oct 2020 9:13 pm 

    leaving only sap
    this way ice woudln’t form from the cold and destroy it and they can endure the harsh winter

    please love supremacsti muzzie s more

    why is this FGM NASTY malala given a forum? doest the muzz talk about thousands of kafir girls being raped and killed by muzz?
    NOPE

  12. FamousDrScanlon on Tue, 13th Oct 2020 1:43 pm 

    It’s an AGW world

    Hurricane Delta could thrust 2020 into having the most billion-dollar disasters on record

    In 2020, as of October 7, there have been 16 weather/climate disaster events with losses exceeding $1 billion each.

    “ST. PETERSBURG, Fla — 2020 has nearly three months left, but it’s already tied with 2011 and 2017 for the most billion-dollar weather and climate disaster events in U.S. history.

    The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration announced Wednesday, that as of Oct. 7, the first nine months of 2020 tied the annual record of 16 events that occurred in 2011 and 2017.

    2020 is the sixth consecutive year (2015-2020) in which 10 or more billion-dollar weather and climate disaster events have impacted the United States.

    Over the last 41 years (1980-2020), the years with 10 or more separate billion-dollar disaster events include 1998, 2008, 2011-2012, and 2015-2020.

    Three of these billion-dollar disasters were hurricanes: Laura, Sally and Isaias.

    Hurricane Delta may very well be the next. 2020 is likely to have the most hurricane landfalls the US has seen since 2005. If it does, it would be the 5th hurricane to make landfall in the continental U.S. this year behind Hanna, Isaias, Laura and Sally.

    The 2020 Atlantic Hurricane Season is currently tied with the 1916 Atlantic Hurricane Season for the most continental U.S. named storm landfalls in a season on record with 9 landfalls. Hurricane Delta is forecast to become the 10th later this week.”

    https://www.wtsp.com/article/weather/hurricane-delta-could-thrust-2020-into-most-billion-dollar-weather-disasters/67-f48978a3-7d20-47d5-a30a-606a88da17aa

    CoreLogic Estimates $0.7 Billion to $1.2 Billion in U.S. Onshore Losses From Hurricane Delta Wind and Storm Surge

    https://news.yahoo.com/corelogic-estimates-0-7-billion-171400541.html

  13. FamousDrScanlon on Tue, 13th Oct 2020 1:50 pm 

    Record-breaking California wildfires surpass 4 million acres

    “The unprecedented figure—an area larger than the state of Connecticut—is more than double the previous record for the most land burned in a single year in California.

    “The 4 million mark is unfathomable. It boggles the mind, and it takes your breath away,” said Scott McLean, a spokesman for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, known as Cal Fire. “And that number will grow.”

    So far, in this year’s historic fire season, more than 8,200 California wildfires have killed 31 people and scorched “well over 4 million acres in California” or 6,250 square miles, Cal Fire said Sunday in a statement. The blazes have destroyed more than 8,400 buildings.”

    https://phys.org/news/2020-10-record-breaking-california-wildfires-surpass-million.html

    One way or another we’re all gonna burn from the consequences of Overshoot.

  14. FamousDrScanlon on Tue, 13th Oct 2020 1:59 pm 

    Worse Than What You Heard

    https://www.ecoshock.org/2020/10/worse-than-what-you-heard.html

  15. FamousDrScanlon on Tue, 13th Oct 2020 2:11 pm 

    The Arctic is in a death spiral. How much longer will it exist?

    The region is unravelling faster than anyone could once have predicted. But there may still be time to act

    “At the end of July, 40% of the 4,000-year-old Milne Ice Shelf, located on the north-western edge of Ellesmere Island, calved into the sea. Canada’s last fully intact ice shelf was no more.

    On the other side of the island, the most northerly in Canada, the St Patrick’s Bay ice caps completely disappeared.

    Two weeks later, scientists concluded that the Greenland Ice Sheet may have already passed the point of no return. Annual snowfall is no longer enough to replenish the snow and ice loss during summer melting of the territory’s 234 glaciers. Last year, the ice sheet lost a record amount of ice, equivalent to 1 million metric tons every minute.

    The Arctic is unravelling. And it’s happening faster than anyone could have imagined just a few decades ago. Northern Siberia and the Canadian Arctic are now warming three times faster than the rest of the world. In the past decade, Arctic temperatures have increased by nearly 1C. If greenhouse gas emissions stay on the same trajectory, we can expect the north to have warmed by 4C year-round by the middle of the century.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/oct/13/arctic-ice-melting-climate-change-global-warming

    No hope. No future. It’s just physics.

  16. FamousDrScanlon on Tue, 13th Oct 2020 2:20 pm 

    The great thaw: global heating upends life on Arctic permafrost – photo essay

    Arctic permafrost is melting at an increasing rate, impacting lives and jeopardizing the planet’s future. Photographer Katie Orlinsky has documented this drastic shift in Siberia and Alaska

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/gallery/2020/oct/13/the-great-thaw-global-heating-upends-life-on-arctic-permafrost-photo-essay

  17. bochen787 on Wed, 14th Oct 2020 12:31 am 

    解放军空中突击队:我的祖国

    https://youtu.be/3DRLzgjWIG8

  18. FamousDrScanlon on Wed, 14th Oct 2020 3:26 pm 

    Hottest September records break in 93 sites of Turkey

    https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/hottest-september-records-break-in-93-sites-of-turkey-159083

  19. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 5:26 am 

    From juanPPee the lunatic:
    DT said https://damnthematrix.wordpress.com/2020/09/17/the

    supertard u forgot to mention italian wife said u forgot the goats the jet is not the only one

    Davy said Yer just jealous wak Cus we have a jet and all you…

    REAL Green said We need to know when to open are month and keep it…

    above not supertard obv supertards please change ur undies after 5 days supertard bochen777 make sure u change ur undies after 5 days to prevent convict-19 said please love supertard please love supremacist muzz…

    Davy said Sometimes we miss are mommy so much we get fantum…

    REAPER ANAL sorry supertard madkat the entire resistance media is built in Amerkkkia with some in canada and russia said this means phils are asleep you’ll croak soo…

    supertard madkat do you like living life as a hs dropout punk i thought ur an old man not a teenager World Reuters Duterte wants entire Philippine population vaccinated for COVID-19 said how can u not notice the irony here. u said amer…

  20. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 10:18 am 

    Bochen

    Talk about soy boy army god level.

    Your ass is fucking grass.

    We will kill you all!

    You masked bastards!

  21. Davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 10:28 am 

    Bochen is American MOB.

  22. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 10:41 am 

    more stupid waste of time widdle juanPPee:

    Davy said Bochen is American MOB.

    PPee juan said LOFAO at the lunatic!

    I AM THE MOB said Bochen Talk about soy boy army god level. Your as…

  23. ANAL RAPER supertrads please change ur undies after 5 days on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 11:38 am 

    help stop convict-19
    we’re all in this together

  24. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 11:46 am 

    Oh gawd, widdle juanPPee is doing his anal reaper nonsense. You really are a child juanPPee:

    ANAL RAPER supertrads please change ur undies after 5 days said help stop convict-19 we’re all in this toget

  25. zero davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 11:47 am 

    more stupid waste of time widdle daVVee:

    Davy said Bochen is American MOB.

    PPee juan said LOFAO at the lunatic!

    I AM THE MOB said Bochen Talk about soy boy army god level. Your as…

  26. zero davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 11:49 am 

    Oh gawd, widdle daVVee is doing his anal reaper nonsense. You really are a child daVVee:

    ANAL RAPER supertrads please change ur undies after 5 days said help stop convict-19 we’re all in this toget

  27. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 12:14 pm 

    poo widdle Ppee juan, he is triggered and angry:

    this is from JuanP:
    zero davy said Oh gawd, widdle daVVee is doing his anal reaper no…

    zero davy said more stupid waste of time widdle daVVee: Davy said…

  28. zero davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 12:18 pm 

    poo widdle daVvee, he is triggered and angry:

    this is from Davy::
    zero davy said Oh gawd, widdle daVVee is doing his anal reaper no…

    zero davy said more stupid waste of time widdle daVVee: Davy said…

  29. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 12:23 pm 

    Owee poo widdle Ppee juan:

    JuanP is not happy:

    zero davy said poo widdle daVvee, he is triggered and angry: this…

  30. ANSEL ANSEL On This Day... Oct 15, 2015: Maiduguri, Nigeria Suicide bombers self-detonate at rival mosques: 42 Killed on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 1:04 pm 

    only master race chinks can harvest master cult muzz

    the harvest technology will be exported to harvest muzz, especially India because it’s profitable.

    i love china, i’m a sinophile

  31. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 1:20 pm 

    The WEF is going to spend 90 trillion dollars on renewable energy for the world in the next 15 years. That’s basically unlimited capital

  32. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 1:27 pm 

    Clogg or abraham

    You think the world can run on renewables. Well sounds like the globalist are going to fucking throw everything including the kitchen sink.

  33. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 1:58 pm 

    Abraham

    Hydrogen trucks? LOL

    I saw a video on youtube with a redneck who made his truck run on water once.

    What is possible and practical are two different things.

  34. Cloggie on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 2:08 pm 

    “What is possible and practical are two different things.“

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/07/22/garbage-truck-on-hydrogen-in-eindhoven-the-netherlands/

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2020/07/13/holthausen-hyzon-to-produce-2000-hydrogen-trucks-per-year/

    But by all means, stick to your “can’t do mentality” and leave world markets to the Europeans.

  35. DT on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 2:19 pm 

    This is a chart of what your 2000 hydrogen trucks per year must replace. https://www.statista.com/statistics/247022/registration-of-trucks-in-europe/

  36. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 2:24 pm 

    DT is an outed juanPPee sock

    DT said This is a chart of what your 2000 hydrogen trucks…

  37. zero davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 2:37 pm 

    daVVee is an outed lunatic

  38. FamousDrScanlon on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 2:51 pm 

    Clog if you really understood physics you’d know that 1, it’s too late and 2, the math does not work for any so called alt energies.
    ‘The market’, your religion is a sham.
    If you weren’t such an obvious piece of shit fascist, your fantasy green dream claims are 100% pure progressive hopium & so is the ‘can’t do’ label.

    Fire, Flood and Plague – essays about 2020

    The great unravelling: ‘I never thought I’d live to see the horror of planetary collapse’

    “s a climate scientist watching the most destructive bushfires in Australian history unfold, I felt the same stomach-turning recognition of witnessing an irreversible loss.

    The relentless heat and drought experienced during our nation’s hottest and driest year on record saw the last of our native forests go up in smoke. We saw terrified animals fleeing with their fur on fire, their bodies turned to ash. Those that survived faced starvation among the charred remains of their obliterated habitats.

    During Australia’s Black Summer, more than 3 billion animals were incinerated or displaced, our beloved bushland burnt to the ground.”

    “Then, just as the last of the bushfires went out, recording-breaking ocean temperatures triggered the third mass bleaching event recorded on the Great Barrier Reef since 2016. This time, the southern reef – spared during the 2016 and 2017 events – finally succumbed to extreme heat. The largest living organism on the planet is dying”

    “I’ve gained terrifying insight into the true state of the climate crisis and what lies ahead. There is so much heat already baked into the climate system that a certain level of destruction is now inevitable. What concerns me is that we may have already pushed the planetary system past the point of no return. That we’ve unleashed a cascade of irreversible changes that have built such momentum that we can only watch as it unfolds.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/oct/15/the-great-unravelling-i-never-thought-id-live-to-see-the-horror-of-planetary-collapse?from=samsung_news_daily_card

    “past the point of no return” indeed. Actually, the point of no return was 20+ years ago.

  39. FamousDrScanlon on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 3:05 pm 

    https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

  40. zero juan on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 3:54 pm 

    Widdle Ppee juan, your FamousDrScanlon is a stupid sock. Everything about you I stupid and low IQ.

    FamousDrScanlon said https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-intera

    FamousDrScanlon said Clog if you really understood physics you’d…

    zero davy said daVVee is an outed lunatic

  41. FamousDrScanlon on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 4:03 pm 

    Widdle zero juan did you know I like to fuck pink poodles in the ass & watch my cum shot shoot out their nose? Did your mom tell you? She loves it.

  42. REAL Green on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 4:04 pm 

    Can we PLEASE go see the docter now Davy. Yer stupidity is embarising us.

  43. makati1 on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 4:37 pm 

    I think Cloggie and Davy share a room at the funny farm where they take turns posting delusional bullshit on PO. Neither one lives in the real world. But, they keep the clicks high and the $$$ rolling in for the site owners.

    Another example of capitalist profit above moral intelligence. Sigh!

  44. Davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 4:50 pm 

    “I think Cloggie and Davy share a room at the funny farm where they take turns posting delusional bullshit on PO. Neither one lives in the real world.”

    Wak, I am so glad I am not old and senile like you are. You have zero situational awareness and blabber the same shit over and over. I bet you have too much lower jaw mobility. LMFAO.

  45. the board on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 4:55 pm 

    “REAL Green on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 4:04 pm”

    “Can we PLEASE go see the docter now Davy. Yer stupidity is embarising us.”

    JuanPPee, everyone knows REAL Green does comment on the crazy side where you are. Any REAL Green on the crazy side is your Ppee juan

  46. makati1 on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 5:10 pm 

    “You have zero situational awareness and blabber the same shit over and over. I bet you have too much lower jaw mobility. LMFAO.”

    Looking in the broken, dirty mirror again Davy? You described your delusional self very well. Hypocrisy is your middle name. isn’t it?

    You will NEVER live as long as I have, nor enjoy life like I do. ‘Retirement’ is no longer possible in Amerika. You will goatherd until you die. Wait and see. ^_^

  47. makati1 on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 5:12 pm 

    Biden is the best Amerika can do for a leader? Out of 331,000,000+ people? Amerika, slip slidin’ into the 3rd world, faster and faster!

  48. Davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 5:39 pm 

    “Looking in the broken, dirty mirror again Davy?”

    Wak, I am picturing your lower jaw mobility now LOL. What a senile old guy with zero life. Go play with your monkey.

  49. I AM THE MOB on Thu, 15th Oct 2020 5:45 pm 

    Clogg Europe is history.

    No shared language or culture. Good luck in a shrinking zero sum world.

    Megan and Harry choose to live in the NWO USA/Canada block. Of the 10 Kingdoms of the club or rome.

    And they could have moved anywhere.

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