Oil supply shock, food shortages, and potential starvation in Sweden?

82 Comments on "Oil supply shock, food shortages, and potential starvation in Sweden?"

Plantagenet on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 1:42 pm 



Things look bad for Sweden. Too bad they don’t have their own oil like their neighbor country Norway.

Cheers!

Kenz300 on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 2:09 pm 



Russia is not a reliable supplier of anything……….

It is time for Sweden to diversify its energy sources and types. Wind and solar are the future…. fossil fuels are the past….

Solar and Wind Just Passed Another Big Turning Point

http://bloom.bg/1WK34MZ

KingM on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 2:52 pm 



By the time Swedes are starving, the world will be in ruins. They’ll still have plenty of money to buy food from poorer countries.

Apneaman on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 3:04 pm 



KingM, by the time the Swedes are starving, so will everyone else. Money won’t mean shit; only food will matter and no one will be exporting it. Could always live off ME refugees for awhile. Keep letting them in – think of it as stocking the pantry.

“Hi welcome to Mc Muslims can I take your order!!?”

Lawfish1964 on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 3:09 pm 



You can’t print food and you can’t eat money.

claman on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 6:22 pm 



That was a pretty stupid article. First of all look at the kake diagram. Oil is all around us, it’s every where we look. In the baltic sea we find a major russian gas-pipeline to the continent. Why on earth should sweden experience a big oil-import decrease. Norway has just found the Sverdrup-field, that they will just keep in reserve for future demands.
When sweden joined the EU it was nessessary to open the borders for european aggricultural import, every body knew that. The old, and deeply ineffective system was only kept alive untill then because of strategic reasons. Sweden is not a member of nato, and therefore had to think about their food-situation in a major crisis.
Would swedes starve if they had a sudden 50-75 pct decline in oil import.
Yes they probably would. But how should that situation become a fast and sudden reality. when oil is all around us. We have an abundance of local biofueled powerplants, hydroelectric power nuclear power and not to forget a lot of windpower.
Sweden is not going down easy or suddenly. Come on.

claman on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 7:03 pm 



kenz: I don’t see any other country with such a large diversity in power production. We burn all burnable garbage, The bark and branches from the forestring industries, even peat (that for some reason has been declared renewable biofuel) and all wood from demolished buildings are burned. Landfills are being cover with airtight layers to capture the metane, that is being burned in the many local biofuel utilities

JuanP on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 8:14 pm 



At some point in the future oil exports will decrease to zero. All oil importing countries (like Uruguay that imports 100% of the oil and gas it uses) will be unable to import oil. I believe it is playing out like a musical chairs game. One by one all countries will become failed states.

Non fossil energy sources of all types and energy storage systems will become increasingly important.

JuanP on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 8:32 pm 



Learn to grow your own food organically. Have an emergency food supply, preferably from 3-12 months, but you can start as small as necessary. At least one water source and stored water. Rechargeable batteries and a bike generator, wind gen, or small PV 12V system.

Today I planted 3 types of mustard greens, broccoli, brussels sprouts, green bunching onions, groung cherries, marigolds, velvet beans, and California #5 black eye peas. All these plants are going in a bed that has a root knot nematode problem which I inherited and found out about too late to solarize the soil during the summer. These plants are resistant to the RKN and interfere with their reproductive system reducing numbers enough to plant any crops after I harvest this crop. Nematodes are a pain here in FL.

makati1 on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 8:48 pm 



JuanP, your picture of the future seems to be right on. All countries will be failed states eventually. It is only the degree of failure that will vary. Those who most rely on hydrocarbon energy that will hurt the most. How many wells will stay flowing at $20/bbl? $10? Those days are coming.

Good luck with the little worms. They can be a nuisance and cut crop production, not to mention difficult to eradicate without killing everything else in the soil. Just another skill you need to be a good subsistence farmer, as many will learn when they try to turn their lawns into productive gardens.

JuanP on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 8:58 pm 



Mak, Do you have Moringa and Lemongrass at your farm? My wife received a couple from a Filipino lady recently as a gift and we are growing some Moringas from seed, too. We dry the Moringa leaves on racks and powder them on our Vitamix blender, save the powder in a glass jar and we add a teaspoon of it to all our fruit and veggie juices and smoothies, soups, stews, etc. Moringa is considered a superfood because it is extremely nutritious.

claman on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 9:45 pm 



Juan: Now don’t forget to grow some canola. You can actually drive your diesel on that. I did in the early 90’es.
And it smelled good too.

Joe on Wed, 14th Oct 2015 11:12 pm 



Dont rely on the US Government to feed you when shit hits the fan.It appears the US has no grain reserves as they did in the past.

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/preps/the-us-national-grain-reserves-are-apparently-gone/

Folks,the shelves are empty!

Joe.

makati1 on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 2:34 am 



JuanP, I think we have both and yes they are good for you. We have so many things started on the farm that I lose track of them as I do not go there often… yet. It is a 3-4 hour bus ride each way and we are still getting the ~1,000M road cut in from the highway. My partner does go biweekly.

I know the caretaker keeps it planted mostly in pineapples and cassava. Not to mention the coconut trees everywhere, and the many nut and fruit trees we are trying to grow.

I cannot wait until we build and move out of the city. With any luck that will be next year. Things move slow here. And in some ways, that is good. Stress is also lower. You learn to be patient.

theedrich on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 6:00 am 



Claman’s post is partially hopeful.  Certainly Sweden has a pretty rational population (being swiftly replaced by imported Mohammedans and other swarthy types).  So it can make the best of any difficult situation.  But the problem is larger than a short oil deficit.  What is becoming quite possible is a situation in which the entire global network begins to fail.  Sweden can remain somewhat aloof from the worst of the chaos for a while, but the global infrastructure on which it depends will be in poor shape and unable to help such a small country when there are huge demands elsewhere.

The Swedish JTI study is clearly a good sign that someone in Scandinavia is thinking ahead.  But there is more need for surveying the country’s dependence on foreign sources of vital resources.  And of course, its politicians ought to reconsider their “compassionate” importation of parasites from the MENA wastelands.

Davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 6:41 am 



Joe said “Dont rely on the US Government to feed you when shit hits the fan. It appears the US has no grain reserves as they did in the past.”

Joe you might direct that comment towards dog paw and his Asia who will not get their daily rations when and if the US does not have the food to export. I might add the US can feed itself and does not need any of its food imports that are nothing more than luxury items. The US has its basic food chain covered Asia does not.

U.S. agricultural exports to Southeast Asia have experienced extremely rapid growth in recent years and, in FY 2014, they climbed to a record $11.5 billion – up 11 percent from FY 2013. In the past decade, Southeast Asia has had the fastest growth in U.S. agricultural sales of any region except South America (see charts below). Strong economic growth and increasing demand for high-value products have been major drivers of this increase, and these trends are expected to continue to make Southeast Asia an attractive destination for U.S. exports in the future.

http://www.fas.usda.gov/data/southeast-asia-fast-growing-market-us-agricultural-products

China is the largest international market for U.S. food and agricultural products, accounting for 20 percent of all U.S. farm exports. Since China joined the World Trade Organization in late 2001, U.S.agricultural exports to the country have grown exponentially – and FAS projects that long-term growth will continue. U.S. farm exports to China (including Hong Kong) reached a record $29.9 billion in fiscal year 2014, with top products including soybeans, distillers’ grains, hides and skins, tree nuts, coarse grains, cotton and beef.

http://www.fas.usda.gov/regions/china

BobInget on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 10:34 am 



Good neighbor Denmark also has native oil.
Then, there are so many alternatives besides gasoline and diesel.
I know, I know, bio-fuels are expensive.
Then, how about natural gas?

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2015/10/14/to-be-or-not-to-bebutanol-and-the-case-of-a-global-sustainable-society/

BobInget on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 10:40 am 



This just in:
TEHRAN, Oct. 15 (UPI) — The Iranian government welcomes the eventual return of Indonesia to the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, Iran’s oil minister said.

Indonesia in September submitted a request to reactivate its membership in OPEC.

“We hope that with Iran’s support in the upcoming OPEC meeting, Indonesia’s return to the organization can be finalized,” Iranian Oil Minister Bijan Zangeneh said. “Then, Tehran and Jakarta can resume their bilateral cooperation in the global oil market.”

Posted note;
Iran, Iraq, Russia and now Indonesia and Venezuela are preparing to make Saudi Arabia an offer they cannot refuse.

makati1 on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 10:48 am 



Perhaps restricting Iran’s oil sales was a good thing for them now? It gives them some clout as the Saudis water down their wells to oblivion and Iran expands theirs. More is shifting in the ME than the sand. LOL

Davy on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 11:54 am 



Dog paw just showed how little he knows about oil fields in the above comment.

claman on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 1:15 pm 



It can’t be helped. The JTI report is a load of crap, that is assuming that the worst possible scenario is automatically gonna happen.
And then this:
“Again, in the worst case scenario, there will be no cooking oil, 75% less fruits and berries, 67-70% less grains, 40% less milk, and 64% less pigs, chickens and eggs”.
No cooking oil ? The main cooking oil in sweden is canola oil, of which we are self supplying.
Sweden has some of the best apples in the world, because of a combination of long daylight in sommer and a not too hot climate.
And for some reason the potato, our stapple food ,is not mentioned att all. Potatoes are grown every where, and the production could easily be trippled or quadrobbled in a few years.
I call this report scare mongering, by the way it emphasizes the worst possible scenario, without considering the real oppertunities and resources that are present in to days sweden.

GregT on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 1:36 pm 



“In 2013 the Swedish Institute of Agricultural and Environmental Engineering (JTI) released a report about potential impacts on the country’s food supply from sudden oil import shocks.”

Sweden is not the only country that will be adversely affected from oil import shocks. Every major oil importing country will be in the same predicament. It is only a matter of time.

Learn to grow your own food now, while the going is still good, and the imports are still available, because they won’t be for long.

claman on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 1:59 pm 



Maybe this JTI report is a part of a general GOP campaign against Bernie Sanders, who is often referring to the scandinavian countries when he suggest a path for US to go in the future.
And what would be better than postulating that these “socialist” countries are helpless when hit by the slightest of crisis.
We got deeply reactionary pricks in sweden too you know

claman on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 2:03 pm 



GregT: we are all going to get hit eventually. It’s just that the report describes sweden as particularly vulnerable, which is horse poo.
And thats why I suspect some hidden GOP agenda.

claman on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 2:30 pm 



“And for some reason the potato, our staple food ,is not mentioned att all. Potatoes are grown every where, and the production could easily be trippled or quadrobbled in a few years.”
To forget about potatoes in scandinavia, would be like forgetting rice in china.
These JTI people really don’t know what they are talking about, or maybe they are deliberately distorting the facts.

GregT on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 2:38 pm 



claman,

I’m not familiar with the situation in Sweden in regards to oil imports. All that I am saying is this; The countries that rely on imports the most, will be hit the hardest when oil supplies become problematic, which at some point in the future, they will. Most governments around the world have not been taking this issue seriously enough, and have done far too little, far too late, to mitigate the risks associated with oil depletion. People everywhere would be best served by making plans for themselves, especially in countries that rely heavily on imported oil.

IMO we are going to see some extremely difficult times ahead, much sooner than most people realize.

claman on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 3:53 pm 



GregT.The political left has one serious problem ,and that is their lack of facing overpopulation in generel, whether it comes to migration in the US, or the fugitives in europe, or anywhere else in the world.
That leaves a lot of people in a situation where they don’t seem to find the answers from from either the left or rigth side of to days political spectrum.
My own answer is to go socialist locally and fascist globaly, and kind of ignore the contradiction between the two points of view.
You have chosen a road, and so have I

makati1 on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 8:11 pm 



Claman, have you ever heard of the Irish potato famine? Weather? Climate change? Insect pests, plant diseases? Planted a garden and had to live off of what it could grow?

From your comments, I don’t think so. Try it sometime. Then tell me you can ramp up production anytime you want WITHOUT petrochemicals like fertilizer, pesticides, or mechanical equipment, etc.

Revi on Thu, 15th Oct 2015 8:19 pm 



At least they are aware of the threat in Sweden. We are in the same situation, but we aren’t even thinking about it at all.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 12:10 am 



Mak: The equivalent to the irish potato famine caused 2 exoduses from sweden to the US. first 1864 and then after ww1. In the area where I live, whole villages sold their belongings and left for Minnesota.
And yes, the potato harvest may fail from time to time, unlike coconuts and pineapples in the philippines. I mean, YOU wouldn’t grow anything that eventually could fail, would you ?
Oh no no, if a product could fail every twentieth or thirtieth year, then its better not to grow anything at all.
By the way, take care when Koppu arives – i certainly looks bad. I guess it’s shmack into your area.

theedrich on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 3:50 am 



Claman says, “My own answer is to go socialist locally and fascist globa[l]ly, and kind of ignore the contradiction between the two points of view.”

Sounds good, but it will never happen because the current mood (pushed by biggies like Sörös and other “do-good” stringpulling oligarchs), is to force the entire world down the yellow brick road to socialism.  In other words, swamp the demographically self-restricting global north with fastbreeders from the global south until everything collapses.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 5:02 am 



This is from a recent aticle in PO: The saudi population are growing restless.
ET: Yes, in fact Europe is being overrun by Syrian migrants, along with millions of others who are just taking advantage of the situation. You are a strong proponent of human rights. How many Syrian refugees has Saudi Arabia taken in? Why do the Saudis propose building mosques in Germany instead of sending food and clothes?

AA: The Saudis and the other Gulf states are refusing to take in Syrian refugees. There are Syrian migrant workers who have been there long before the start of the war, but they are not refugees. They are pushing them to go to Europe.

According to the media, King Salman called the German Chancellor and offered to build 200 mosques for the new migrants. Now this tells you that they are not willing to accept them into their own societies because they are afraid of ISIS being part of these refugees and all the issues this would pose.

They don’t want to destabilize their societies but they are willing to pay Germany to build mosques – in other words, promoting Saudi ideology there: 200 new mosques literally means the Islamization of German society.

Perhaps not in those terms but this will definitely change the character of German society, German political processes and German democracy, as exemplified by the behavior and actions of some Muslims in many European countries – especially in the Netherlands, France and the UK. There are growing social frictions in European societies due to some Muslims demanding the introduction of Shariah and family laws, among other conflicting values.

Most of the Muslims leave their homelands to escape poverty, repression and humiliation at the hands of their own dictators. Unfortunately, when they move to Europe they try to implement the same values they are escaping from. And this is something I just can’t understand.

http://peakoil.com/publicpolicy/the-saudi-population-are-growing-restless

Wahhabism and isis are collaborating in their goal to push out muslims with a non-fundamentalistic belief from arab soil. And at the same time use these fugitives as an avantgarede in the conquering of europe(hence the saudi donation to mosques in germany, but no help to the fugitives in Syria). Super smart way to solve the overpopulation in the arab world.

Davy on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 5:24 am 



Clam, Sweden is much better prepared for the descent then the Philippines. In fact Sweden is one of the better positioned in the world when considering several factors. Sweden has a population of roughly 10MIL and 173 sq mi. The Philippines has 100MIL in 115 sq mi. Sweden has a relatively healthy ecosystem compared to what the Philippines has with its fisheries and forest are in severe decline and localized collapse. You are in the high latitudes which may offer you some shelter from climate change. The Philippines is in the crosshairs of climate change. Mak, is a drunk man air boxing. He is always looking for a western country he can diminish when Asia and his own country are among the lowest in sustainability.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 5:58 am 



Davy: I think Mak will get his hands full, trying to save his coconuts and pineapples when (koppu) this category 4 typhoone slams into Luzon.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 7:26 am 



Mak.”Then tell me you can ramp up production anytime you want WITHOUT petrochemicals like fertilizer, pesticides, or mechanical equipment, etc.”
We can do that because we have a lot of former farmland lying fallow and ready to use. These areas consists of ligther and more sandy soils, which is exactly what the potato likes. Bingo

Davy on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 8:00 am 



Clam, you’re wasting your time with dog paw. He cares only about diminishing your fine country. One of my best friends when I lived in Germany in 85 was half Swedish and half Norwegian. He lived in Gothenburg. We studied German together at the Goethe Institute in Schwabisch Hall Germany. I met a very nice girl through him. I loved my time hanging out with Swedes.

Dog paw makes his attacks and throws his dirt. He cannot defend his position because it is a position of agenda. His agenda is Asia good the west bad. Obviously we know both regions have their comparative advantages and disadvantages. I might add when it comes to food dog paw is pissing in the wind because 4.5Bil people of Asia can’t feed themselves without imports. Sweden with its low population in a large geographic area located at a high latitude at least has a chance.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 8:38 am 



davy , thanks for support and information. I’m still wondering what this JTI group actually stands for. I haven’t googled them yet. Is it a well known group or just some people trying to stirr the waters?

GregT on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 11:27 am 



claman,

Assuming you are Swedish, it might be easier for you to get a better understanding of who this group is. According to their English page:

JTI – Swedish Institute of Agricultural and Environmental Engineering is an industrial research institute engaged in research, development and information in the areas of agricultural engineering and environmental technology.

Their office is Ultunaallén 4 in Uppsala.

IMVHO, more of these kinds of reports need to be done in every country around the world. There is not going to be one single nation that will not be decimated when oil depletion begins to kick in. It’s almost impossible to predict with any certainty as to what numbers in population reduction we will see, but I would hazard a guess that at least two thirds of the world’s population will be wiped out. No country will be left unscathed. Not Sweden, not the United States, not the Philippines, not Russia, not China, and not Canada. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

GregT on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 11:39 am 



You guys are far too nationalistic in your ideologies. This issue has nothing to do with national pride. Those peoples who are already growing food without the use of modern agricultural practices, ( IE: no petrochemicals, no petro-fertilzers, no petro-machinery) will be in the best positions post oil. Those who rely on oil for food will be the hardest hit. This isn’t exactly rocket science.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 1:57 pm 



GregT, this is how they present them selves.

“SJMF is a network that provides opportunities to focus, together with other companies, on areas where the individual company can find it difficult to operate”
“Commissioned research is conducted in complete secrecy”

Ok, Judge for your self. But to me it sounds a little bit shady.
My theory about a possible GOP-influence on the article for making sweden look inefficient and without survival qualities, could actually be possible.
They are definitly “big aggro”.

GregT on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:29 pm 



I’m not in a position to make any kind of a call on a Swedish institute claman. You would know better than I would. I still stand behind what I have said above. If your government has not already addressed food and energy production in a post peak oil world, I maintain that it is far too late to start now. Don’t get me wrong, I am not targeting Sweden, all countries around the globe are in the same predicament. This is a subject that has been discussed at high levels, and understood for a very long time. Instead of planning for a reduced energy future, we have continued to pursue BAU. Globally.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:35 pm 



When an independant commercial research institute suddenly starts talking shit about their own government (socialistic as well as neoliberal), you should ask your self who’s interests they are promoting.

“Swedes don’t even know that the government has said that it’s up to the citizens themself to provide for their own food needs in a crisis situation. Most people seem to believe we still live in the 1970s when Sweden was a socialist country, not any more, not since the neoliberals came into office and started dismantling healthcare, defence, education etc. There is no emergency preparedness!”

To me it’s obvious. They are promoting big oil and big agro

apneaman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:38 pm 



claman, do you grow your own food?

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:38 pm 



And big oil and big agro IS the same as the GOP.

GregT on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:45 pm 



Your government will not save you when the oil runs out claman. There is simply no way to feed everyone without modern industrial agriculture. Learn how to grow your own food naturally, or go without at some point in the future. It does not get much simpler than that.

The above report should be common sense. Instead of listening to the message, as uncomfortable as it may be, you are attempting to shoot the messenger.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:49 pm 



Apne: I have just started. We have a beech forrest that give us the yearly firewood, and the soil is fantastic.
We will start out with (big surprice) potatoes, hassel nuts (Allready planted), herbs and cale.
I’m really looking forward to spring.
Apne you know the limitations of my memory, but aren’t you also a forrest dweller ? Because something called agro-forresting caught my attention recently. Do you Know about it?

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 2:56 pm 



GregT : I will absolutely shoot the messenger, If he’s got a hidden agenda. And honestly I smell a rat.

GregT on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 3:05 pm 



Other than you quote above:

“….when Sweden was a socialist country, not any more, not since the neoliberals came into office…..”

Every mention of the word Sweden, could be replaced with any other country’s name. I see nothing wrong with this report, other than perhaps the timeline. I doubt that any country in the world has until 2030 before things really start to fall apart. I give it until 2020-2025, and quite possibly sooner than that.

The resource wars have already begun claman, and the growth required to maintain our ponzi schemed economic systems is already stagnating.

onlooker on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 3:05 pm 



Claman read up on the Haber-Bosh process of nitrogen fixing. Also use common sense about the transportation of food to all corners of the globe. Now google how many countries export substantial quantities of food. While your at it check out the current state of fresh water supplies around the world. After you have done all that get back to us. Oh dont forget to also research the state of the top soil around the world. Did I mention the bees.

claman on Fri, 16th Oct 2015 3:26 pm 



Onlooker: There are several farmers around here that uses entirely biological methods making beef and vegetables. The soil is ice age/lake sediments, some of it good, some really bad. And unlimited water supply.
The lake give us perch, pike, perchpike, trouts, eel and crayfish.
The nitrogen is a problem though, but peas, beans and canola will have to do the job for us.
Allright onlooker- research finished 🙂