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How Many Humans Could the Moon Support?

How Many Humans Could the Moon Support? thumbnail

It’s the year 3000. Having used up all of Earth’s natural resources, humans have become a spacefaring race and established colonies on the moon. Vast, sealed domes cluster across its surface, housing cities populated by hundreds of thousands of people. This cold, gray rock has somehow become humanity’s new home.

Of course, this is pure science fiction. But no vision of the future is complete without an extraterrestrial colony of humans, and since the moon is the closest celestial body to our planet, it’s the easiest to imagine as our futuristic home.

But does this vision align with reality? Will the moon one day be a hot property, and if so, how many people could its unwelcoming landscape realistically support?

One way to answer that question, simplistically, is to consider the area of the moon. The moon’s surface area is about 15.9% of Earth’s overall land area (excluding the area of Earth covered by oceans). Technically, if we packed this area at the density of Earth’s most populous cities, we’d be able to fit trillions on the moon’s surface.

But how many people could fit on the moon’s surface is a very different question than how many people that world could sustainably support. And in that regard, the moon is definitely Earth’s poorer cousin.

“It’s a pretty barren place,” said Darby Dyar, a senior scientist at the Planetary Science Institute in Arizona and a professor of astronomy at Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts. “Every species seeks to expand its ecological niche. But the new ‘niche,’ which is the moon, is very inhospitable for humans,” Dyar told Live Science.

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Air to breathe

Unlike on Earth, water doesn’t rain down freely on the lunar surface and collect into bodies we could drink from. Crucially, the moon also lacks an atmosphere with breathable air. Neither does Earth’s natural satellite have existing ecosystems that could conveniently support fields of agriculture. The moon is also vulnerable to solar storms, eruptions from the sun’s surface that send out electromagnetic radiation, which the moon — without the protection of a magnetic field — can’t deflect. There are also huge temperature extremes, and long, alternating periods of darkness and light, Dyar said.

All this may make life on the moon seem impossible. Yet surprisingly, it isn’t. In fact, the essentials for human existence — air, water, food and shelter — theoretically aren’t as unattainable on the moon as you might expect.

Related: Why Does the Moon Keep Flashing Us?

Take air. To support a starting population of a few hundred people on the moon, we’d have to start by transporting air to the lunar surface, pumping it into sealed structures in which humans would live. That seems unsustainable, but in the short term, it would actually be fairly cost-effective, said Markus Landgraf, the moon project manager with the European Space Agency. “People don’t use much air, and for a long time, we will not need to make the air on the moon. We can bring it in,” he said. “Transportation costs for that are still manageable.”

If that population grew to tens of thousands, however, we’d need to synthesize oxygen on the moon, an expensive process. But Landgraf said the growth of space exploration in the coming decades could make the process more economical.

That’s because propelling spacecraft requires oxygen, so if the demand goes up, “it makes more economic sense to build oxygen generators on the moon for rocket propellant, rather than for drinking water and air for people,” Landgraf said. That would drive down the production cost, making it cheaper to produce air for moon dwellers.

Water, water everywhere

What about water? Until a few decades ago, researchers believed the moon was completely dry. But now they know there’s a surprising amount of liquid spread across the lunar surface.

“We think water is left over from when the moon formed. And we know that comets, which are basically dirty snowballs, periodically impact the moon’s surface,” Dyar said. “There’s good evidence to suggest that those [craters] where comets impacted the surface still have ice reservoirs in them.”

Another water source, she said, comes in the solar winds that roar across space; charged with protons, these collide with electrons on the moon, forming hydrogen.

All this adds up to a decent amount of lunar water, perhaps enough to support a sizable population. And we’ve already developed technologies on the International Space Station to recycle drinkable water from astronaut’s shower water, urine and sweat. This can even use the moisture from their breath. On the moon, that technology could create a closed-loop water source for inhabitants.

In a 1995 artist's concept of a moon colony, a lunar mining facility harvests oxygen from the resource-rich volcanic soil of the moon's Mare Serenitatis, a vast lava plain.

In a 1995 artist’s concept of a moon colony, a lunar mining facility harvests oxygen from the resource-rich volcanic soil of the moon’s Mare Serenitatis, a vast lava plain.

(Image credit: NASA/SAIC/Pat Rawlings)

 

But even with recycling, Dyar said, those water reserves wouldn’t be infinite; recycling water over and over again does come with some loss, so reserves would need to be topped up once in a while. What’s more, extracting the moon’s water by crushing lunar rocks and dredging up ice from deep craters, would require huge, costly amounts of energy, Dyar pointed out.

“My personal feeling is that colonization of the moon is going to depend on us bringing hydrogen there,” she said. Transporting that would be costly, too: around $220,000 per kilogram, Landgraf said.

Without knowing how much water is currently on the moon’s surface, it’s also difficult to estimate how many people it could support. But we do at least know that it’s possibly enough to provide a relatively sustainable water source. In any case, Landgraf estimated that lunar pioneers wouldn’t need to tap the moon’s water resources for at least the first five to 10 years of settlement; it will be cheap enough to transport water up there and recycle it for the dozen or so humans who are first likely to call moon their home.

As for lunar agriculture, we could mimic Earth’s growing conditions with “almost-ecosystem-like closed domes,” Landgraf said. Nurtured by long bouts of sunlight and showered with recycled water, lunar agriculture could feasibly scale up to feed thousands. There’s already plenty of research to suggest that growing crops in space will work.

Fly me to the moon

There are still multiple unknowns about how we’d do all this in practice. But theoretically, natural resources could support tens of thousands, even millions, of people on the moon. So then, why aren’t there already hundreds of us up there, gazing down at Earth?

Because the biggest constraints to colonizing the moon aren’t necessarily limits to natural resources, Landgraf said, but the huge cost of transporting people up there by spacecraft. Doing it more economically would require bold technological leaps — like the invention of space elevators. If we had those, “then we’re talking about tens of thousands of people on the moon,” Landgraf said. “So, really, water isn’t the constraint here. It’s transportation.”

There’s another caveat, and this is where we return sharply to reality: For now, colonizing the moon isn’t actually the goal. Sure, we could view the moon as a kind of Noah’s ark in the event of an earthly apocalypse. But currently, international space agencies see the moon not as an outpost from disaster, but as a research hub — and a potential base from which to explore the rest of our solar system.

With that approach, Langraf said we could look to Antarctica for clues about human habitation. Probably the most lunar-like habitat on Earth, the Antarctic is home to fluctuating, seasonal population of between one and four thousand researchers who battle freezing, dry conditions to do their work. Since research currently drives planning on lunar habitation, that gives us an idea of how many people might realistically live on the moon in coming decades: a few thousand at a time, rather than millions or billions.

Even this population would probably taper off, replaced by cheaper, more efficient robots over time, according to Dyar. “As technology gets better, there’s very little reason why you really need to send a human to do scientific research,” she said.

However, that doesn’t mean our dreams of lunar citizenship are over. There’s one other factor: humanity’s unquenchable drive to explore. That could compel future generations to colonize the moon in the millions or use it as a launching pad for other expeditions into space.

“Humans are one of the few species that are always exploring, even if there’s no need,” Landgraf said. “[We’ve] been very successful with this strategy. Would it make sense to change that? I don’t think so.”

livescience



77 Comments on "How Many Humans Could the Moon Support?"

  1. dave thompson on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 12:07 am 

    This has got to be one of the most inane articles ever posted on the forum.

  2. Go Speed Racer on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 12:46 am 

    LOL pie in the sky fantasy.

  3. makati1 on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 12:56 am 

    This guy should get a real job in the real world. Or, he should write science fiction books. EVERYTHING you need to live would have to be trucked to them from earth, I don’t care what he claims.

    Why not spend the money to actually save the one place humans can live without tech?

    BTW: IF there are any humans actually still alive on the earth in 3000, they will be hunter gatherers. lol

  4. Antius on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 7:57 am 

    Femtosecond lasers may be the key enabling technology for inertial confinement fusion and nuclear pulse propulsion – a technology that would allow cheap spaceflight.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/physicists-are-creating-lasers-powerful-enough-rip-holes-fabric-reality

    The technology does not, as described here, tear a hole in space-time. But it will very effectively convert low frequency photons into gamma rays at the surface of a target. Exactly what is needed to force implosion of a frozen deuterium pellet.

  5. Sissyfuss on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 8:16 am 

    We don’t have the luxury to indulge in fairy tales of living on a lifeless, resource poor orb with no atmosphere and hence, no protection against deadly radiation from the Sun. Our efforts should be restricted to reducing emissions and population. But modern mankind cannot even broach the subject, much less effect any meaningful actions to accomplish progress in altering our suicidal trajectory. We are now in the process of guaranteeing our fate as a failed species.

  6. shortonoil on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 11:08 am 

    The Moon holds enough Helium 3 to supply all the world’s power needs for the the next 10,000 years with no by products but heat. Humans either go back to the Moon, or back to their caves.

  7. shortonoil on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 11:12 am 

    The Earth’s health is not well. Removing the very toxic by products of hydrocarbon combustion would greatly improve Her condition.

  8. Cloggie on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 11:15 am 

    Five hundred years after this…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT9YKjn67Og

    …whitey clearly needs a new imperial project. Reconquering non-white areas in the third world is out of the question and not interesting. Been there, done that.

    After (((empire))), that is now immanent, and the overthrow of the political left, we need Fortress Europe and Fortress Heartland Amerika, merge European, Russian and Amerikan space agencies and set out to colonize the Moon, Mars and Europa (the planet mind you) and set up a scientific empire in deep space.

    NOT as a new living space (that can only be Earth), but as an outlet of our immense creative Aryan power to undertake these kind projects in the first place. The purpose of life is glory. Space exploration is an important channel towards that aim.

    Until now we have been essentially 2-dimensional man. We are about to become 3-dimensional.

    The wealth of the average earthling will stall or even go back in the coming years and decades, for reasons of overpopulation, resource depletion and climate change. From a psychological point of view it is important to have alternative tasks and goals to identify with. Space exploration could be an important one. An other one is a refocusing on the urban environment and find inspiration in centuries gone by to improve the cities, post car and make them more beautiful.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/5317802/The-Prince-of-Wales-on-architecture-his-10-monstrous-carbuncles.html

    “The Prince of Wales on architecture: his 10 ‘monstrous carbuncles'”

    Example of beautiful “new” architecture: newly built city of Brandevoort, 10 km East of where I live, based on traditional Dutch architecture:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPCzoG5sixA

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandevoort

  9. shortonoil on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 11:19 am 

    Over the last 160 years the world has extracted 87% of its theoretically usable hydrocarbon resource. The last 13% is going to be very nasty. As a species we either reach out, or fold in.

  10. Cloggie on Sun, 29th Sep 2019 11:35 am 

    “Over the last 160 years the world has extracted 87% of its theoretically usable hydrocarbon resource. The last 13% is going to be very nasty. As a species we either reach out, or fold in.”

    We haven’t. What is “theoretically usable” is defined by the level of technology.

    Regarding hydrocarbons, we have merely scratched the surface, literally. There is enough to burn us all hundred times over:

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/fracking-is-for-amateurs/

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2018/12/18/north-sea-ucg/

    Obviously we should NOT resort to UCG but leave the rummage where it is and go full throttle into reneweables.

  11. anon on Mon, 30th Sep 2019 1:50 am 

    how many humans could the moon support?
    what, like, gravitationally supporting their mass without going lopsides or causing a landslide? i mean, it’s a lower-g environment so you could probably pile the people up pretty high before the ground gave way, especially if you found a nice flat piece of rocky ground for the job.. of course they’d all be dead from trifling issues like no air , no water, dreezing to death, and hard radiation, but that’s just details. i’m sure you could pack ’em in pretty dense.

  12. Antius on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 4:14 am 

    Cloggie wrote: “After (((empire))), that is now immanent, and the overthrow of the political left, we need Fortress Europe and Fortress Heartland Amerika, merge European, Russian and Amerikan space agencies and set out to colonize the Moon, Mars and Europa (the planet mind you) and set up a scientific empire in deep space.
    NOT as a new living space (that can only be Earth), but as an outlet of our immense creative Aryan power to undertake these kind projects in the first place. The purpose of life is glory. Space exploration is an important channel towards that aim.”

    Agree with all you have written, but would add a few caveats.

    (1) Colonisation implies ‘living there’ on a permanent basis, i.e. growing food, building towns and using local resources. Hence, we are talking about new living space. Ultimately, these places will grow into new nations, much as the European colonies grew into the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. In a strictly engineering sense, this will be more practical on Mars, the moon and some of the asteroids, than it would be on the moons of Jupiter; as these places are still close enough to the sun to make the growth of crops practical without artificial light. Most of what we call living space on these worlds will need to be underground. The cheapest way to create pressurised living space in a vacuum is to excavate a deep hole and use the weight of material above you to balance the air pressure inside. We could actually build truly enormous living spaces on Mars and the larger asteroids in exactly this way. On Mars it is easier, because there is substantial gravity and we could create living space by simply bulldozing a layer loose soil and rock a few metres deep over a frame structure. The moon will be a far less attractive target for colonisation, as it lacks the basic ingredients for life. More likely, it will be a mining colony. In earth orbit, people may live in space stations that rotate to produce gravity.

    (2) Regardless of what we end up leaving behind, we will be going to these places to extract resources that we need back on Earth. That is the only realistic economic driver. That means rare metals that are depleting on Earth and energy supplies, such as helium-3 or materials used to build solar power satellites. That will initially drive where we choose to go: the moon and near earth asteroids. Mars will not be a target for colonisation for a long time to come; and neither will the moon or asteroids on any large scale. Earth-orbiting space stations may be near term colonisation targets.

    (3) Whilst Musk has been successful in driving down the cost of rocketry, the scale of infrastructure needed to actually develop space mining and space manufacturing and turns these other worlds into colonies; probably necessities the use of nuclear pulse propulsion from the Earth’s surface. We would need to lift large amounts of heavy infrastructure out of the Earth’s gravity at low cost. We probably cannot do that with chemical rocketry – it would be rather like delivering bricks and concrete to someone’s backyard using an aeroplane. Pure fusion pulse propulsion would be most desirable as it would imply minimal radioactive contamination of the Earth’s surface. But it is beyond our capabilities right now and nuclear fission is what we’ve got.

    All in all, space colonisation is an ambitious but achievable objective for the European nations by the close of the 21st century. The sort of scenario illustrated in James Corey’s Expanse series is achievable, though some of the propulsion technology that is envisioned probably is not.

  13. Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 4:49 am 

    space colonization – pure fantasy. A few expensive trips that will achieve little benefit to humans may occur before the whole endeavor collapses in on itself in waste and sadness. More techie-drama with little on substance. The expense could go a long way to mitigation of civilization for a collapse process. It is these fantasies and others that will define the collapse process from whether it goes deep or it stabilizes at a lower level and allows a reboot.

  14. Antius on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 5:41 am 

    “space colonization – pure fantasy. A few expensive trips that will achieve little benefit to humans may occur before the whole endeavor collapses in on itself in waste and sadness. More techie-drama with little on substance. The expense could go a long way to mitigation of civilization for a collapse process. It is these fantasies and others that will define the collapse process from whether it goes deep or it stabilizes at a lower level and allows a reboot.”

    Our society is collapsing largely, though not exclusively, due to resource depletion. Space mining and manufacturing are all about mitigating that by bringing in new resources from outside of what we traditionally consider to be the system boundaries.

    It isn’t pure fantasy; with enough resources we could definitely do it. But it is a huge investment at a time when money will be short. And as I have stated, it probably requires the application of nuclear power to space ships in the form of nuclear pulse propulsion. That is something that would be technically achievable, but politically very difficult. In my opinion, whilst I know it is not a good thing to subject human populations to increased background radiation levels; I would rather deal with that problem than suffer starvation or poverty.

  15. REAL Green on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 6:56 am 

    “Growing Pain: The Delusion of Boundless Economic Growth”
    https://tinyurl.com/y3ce72t2 resilience

    Can we have absolute decoupling to enable endless growth? The core problem with the sustainable growth bet is that there is very little evidence that it can be achieved in a timeframe that will enable us to avoid catastrophic climate change. Sustainable growth requires us to ‘decouple’ environmental impact from economic activity. That is, we have to work out a way to produce more stuff while producing less carbon dioxide. For the last 300 years, we have only been able to produce more stuff by producing more carbon dioxide…Absolute decoupling is tough. There are many examples of relative decoupling of growth from damaging side-effects and inputs, as technologies become more energy-efficient, for example. But relative decoupling is nothing like enough to deal with the challenges posed by climate disruption. Efficiency gains at the margin are swamped by increases in consumption that generate more emissions. Relative decoupling only means that things like carbon emissions go up less fast. We need them to go down. So we need absolute decoupling, above all of economic growth from fossil fuel emissions…There are very few examples of absolute decoupling. Consider the conclusions of a comprehensive recent review of the evidence by the NGO research network EEB: “…not only is there no empirical evidence supporting the existence of a decoupling of economic growth from environmental pressures on anywhere near the scale needed to deal with environmental breakdown, but also, and perhaps more importantly, such decoupling appears unlikely to happen in the future.” The EEB team note that this is no reason to abandon efforts to achieve absolute decoupling of economic development from environmental bads. But it does give reason to “have major concerns about the predominant focus of policymakers on green growth, this focus being based on the flawed assumption that sufficient decoupling can be achieved through increased efficiency without limiting economic production and consumption”.

    “…post-growth economics is not a fully fleshed-out system waiting in the wings for some big future switchover. Nor are our own notions of Arrival and making ourselves at home. Moving towards these alternatives will be an evolutionary process, driven partly by new ideas and partly by the failure of old ones… The alternatives will be something that people and communities discover together.” One perspective argues for a pragmatic and mixed-economy approach to the shift to post-growth. It will require experimentation at all levels and across sectors. It will call for state regulation and also new forms of bottom-up grassroots social enterprise; it will demand high technology and social innovations; it will be multi-level and ‘polycentric’”

  16. REAL Green on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 6:58 am 

    Sustainable growth is a absolutely flawed idea on its own and proving out wrong. Emissions are not going down. Emissions are not even stalling and the forecast picture is huge growth trend. A second argument then goes into fantasy as these academics always do when they promote the unattainable and that is degrowth. Academics talk up degrowth without pain and suffering which is absurd when we consider action consequences and destructive patterns both natural and human. There are some slick arguments that I have read for years now on degrowth and none of them add up except around the margins. Degrowth ideas are valid and should be embraced but they absolutely will lead to recession and likely depression. There will be pain and suffering on an epic scale. This likely will be localized, region based and class based but that then equates to across the board effects. Failed nations will tip into failure. Wealthy nations will stagnate and get poorer. Some wealthy nations will likely be especially hard hit where they have concentrated populations in unsustainable mega cities. The environment is not going to get better in the short term because there will be less resources to combat problems.

    That said continued status quo growth will eventually get to the same place with the same problems but likely with worse coping mechanisms. The sooner this process is started the better. My ideas are we admit failure and accept pain and suffering with both approaches. Neither approaches will work. We then combine the approaches. We allow some areas to grow as they must to maintain resources to combat problems. We allow degrowth in other areas. I propose a two-tier society based upon smart growth with overall degrowth. One that pushes people back to the land in a hybrid of simplicity and localism. These people would embrace seasonality, intermittency, and low energy production. This means animal husbandry, smaller scale agricultural production, and biomass gathering. Animal power with some mechanization. This also involves utilizing renewable energy for the basics of lighting, cooling, cooking and so forth. This would involve micro grids with demand management but also grid tying for support and protection to these localized nodes. Simple structure would be energy efficient. These people would leave consumerism as we know it today. Travel would be limited by both restrictions and lack of resources to pay for it. In the other locations growth and a Spartan affluence would be allowed but with draconian regulations to prevent exploitation and corruption to areas degrowthed. Population across the board would be limited in draconian ways. This then allows a two-prong direction for a new deglobalized economy embracing localism but managing decline in the networks and hubs of knowledge and production that will be vital to a controlled devolution. This hybridization of the old ways and with tweaking of new tech and knowledge can then be dispensed in assisted living for those being degrowthed. Smart people would have to be promoted and those not capable demoted in regards to opportunity. These back to the land people would be given health and food security. There would be guaranteed education but simple and related to pastoral lives. The top layers of society would be shaved back to get to its core responsibilities that would revolve around maintaining a degree of modernity with smart growth albeit on a much lower scale. Finance, military, consumables, and leisure would be greatly reduced.

  17. REAL Green on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 6:59 am 

    Now this approach is of course highly theoretical systematically vague and really pure fantasy. Yet it is based on the reality of what could work in a different world with different human types. We no longer have enough of these types to escape the downside of what is ahead. It requires a huge amount of cooperation and trust that is no longer available. It requires a minority that would continue to enjoy a degree of modernity with a majority going back to a tougher way of life. Yet, this return to simplicity and localism has much to offer with meaning. Most would agree life today is devoid of meaning people once felt. The problem is people no longer can relate to the meaning this way of life might offer. It is scary once we get over the fantasy of the noble savage. This means becoming more savage in many ways. This then means serious education is needed. All this then hinges on if a bifurcating global system into degrowth but with critical system management can be achieved. That is an unknown and likely hinge on the degree and duration of the whole process which is a central tenant of ecology and the survival of a species. Of course, if one looks at it from the “here we are” to where we would need to go then we would have to see this as unworkable in regards to success with a high degree of retention of modernity and a low amount of pain and suffering. This approach needs to be initiated immediately and it will involve economic abandonment, irrational processes, and dysfunctional network results. The hope is the adaptation and mitigation involved will power through the losses that will surely be the result. It must be accepted that this will not be fair and equitable. There will be serious losses. This means stopping attempts to sustainably develop overpopulated countries globally and within rich regions. Areas will have to be left to die in triage because they cannot be fixed. This is a life boat situation with the understanding there will have to be the tough love of a hospice. There will have to be pressure now on further population growth in poor areas and in rich countries a loss of middle and lower class into a poorer way of life.

    Personally, I feel we are too far gone for a coordinated global response in any way whether that be fantasy sustainable growth, enlightened degrowth, and or a combination of both. Populations are too large and resources and the environment too far along in depletion and degradation. This is why I am pushing this locally with those who can adapt now and beat the rush. Some can go back to simplicity and localism now. They can leverage the global status quo now to make the transition far better than later when the floor falls out. It is also my hope that a combination of degrowth policies and sustainable growth at a narrow level will be stumbled into by default in many places globally to prevent total global collapse. We will need lots of activity and hardware to transition people back to the land. Neither sustainable growth nor degrowth are the answer. Both will fail. Both will fail working in conjunction too but the key here is working together they can find a reboot level much higher than either will find alone. Nothing is worse than the path the world is on now so we can expect this to end. It is the ending of the unsustainable that will be the kick off point that might allow a hybridization of sustainable growth and degrowth to pick up albeit with huge pain and suffering and with an accompanying loss of modernity. The time element will be quick because much can be lost in a short time. This is why these ideas need consideration immediately.

  18. REAL Green on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 8:02 am 

    I could’ve got a point across in two sentences or less, but seeing my wurd salads on the internets makes me feel REAL Important and stuff.

  19. Anonymouse on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 11:41 am 

    Look at that, its a Triple(!) TURD salad from the mind, such as it is, off demented davytard. He must have finished his chores on the ‘farm’ early to have found the time
    to crank those turd salads out. My own guess, he probably just bee-lined it to the goat-pen and ignored everything else.

    Anyhoo…..Hey dumbass, if no one is paying attention to even one of your bloviating turd salads, what makes you think three of them will get you any better results? It that dementia at work? Must be.

    REAL Dumbass.

  20. Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 11:57 am 

    annoymouse, we know you don’t like me but are you capably of using your mind to argue a point? Right, you are not capably of rational arguments. The extent of your abilities are cyber bullying and stalking. You have zero credibility here so in effect your above comment is a troll. You are triggered because your past anti-American Canadian shit is no longer relevant and effective. IOW, you lost sucker.

  21. Antius on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 12:09 pm 

    Davy, you care far too much. None of us have any credibility here, given that it is an anonymous board. There is no way of knowing if a lot of the people here are even real and different people may post under the same name on different days. Nothing we do here amounts to anything. It isn’t even intended to be used in the way it is. It is there to allow members of the public to comment on the content of individual articles.

    There is no point trying to argue people down or defend your reputation. Given that no one here has ever met you or has much idea who you are, you have no reputation to defend or damage.

    The only reason for being here is if you enjoy it and hold out hope of occasionally learning something new.

  22. supermacist muzzies jerk on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 12:09 pm 

    anunterd SAW SAWS swt pbuh i appealed earlier that you leave supertard SAW SAWS swt pbuh alone but there you are ruing his day.
    big goat SAW SAWS swt pbuh can’t get any respite

  23. Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 1:13 pm 

    “Davy, you care far too much. None of us have any credibility here, given that it is an anonymous board.”
    I care that I can speak and not be censored by cyber stalkers who are obsessed with silencing me because they have lost the battle with ideas. Credibility is not important to me. I have my own self-worth. I don’t need you to tell me I am credible or not. That will come naturally out of debate and argument not if you like me or not. If I see a stupid comment, I neuter it. I expect the same. This is a game for the trolls annoymouse and juanp. I am playing their game to win but would rather play with intelligent people who are on topic and debate. I don’t care for trolls because there is no intelligence involved with troll activity. It belongs on social media not here but as long as I am here I win at their game. Obviously, you care or you would not bother to talk about caring. Your comment is really a silly backwards way of saying I am tired of you guys battling. I suggest you worry about yourself. If you don’t care and feel you have no credibility then leave.

    “There is no way of knowing if a lot of the people here are even real and different people may post under the same name on different days.”
    AH, bullshit, I have a good handle on who is real and who is not at least in relation to daily activity and the various messages. I have been doing this a long time and enjoy it. Sure, I may be fooled some but most of the time people like JuanP are idiots and have well-worn ruts that are easy to determine. Yea, in fact right now JuanP might being using your identity to make this comment but I am pretty sure it is you because I am used to this kind of comment out of you and I deal with dumbass juanp daily and know his stupidity. He is not hard to figure out. In fact, identities really don’t matter it is the ideas that are out there and they are real.

    “Nothing we do here amounts to anything.”
    Ah, so what and who cares? You are the defeatist not me. I am doing my intellectual work out. I lifted weights this morning and that was my physical work out. I fasted yesterday and today I am eating well. Do you see a pattern or does nothing amount to anything for you? Try some anti-depressants or just start some hard drinking.

    “It isn’t even intended to be used in the way it is. It is there to allow members of the public to comment on the content of individual articles.”
    Fuck that, if there were intentions the owners would do a minimum of moderation with guidance. The intent is each of our intents fight it out for what ever our intents are. You make of this place what you want. I have been arguing for some minimum guidance now for a few years. The owners don’t give a shit. Go over to the moderated side you would fit in there except for your white racist whining.

    “There is no point trying to argue people down or defend your reputation.”
    Now you are being redundant. Spit it out please and get to the point.

    “Given that no one here has ever met you or has much idea who you are, you have no reputation to defend or damage.”
    More redundancy. Just say what’s on your mind and quit beating around the bush.

    “The only reason for being here is if you enjoy it and hold out hope of occasionally learning something new.”
    Exactly and that is what I am doing too bad you are not.

  24. supremacist muzzies jerk on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 2:18 pm 

    supertard SAW SAWS pbuh swt please don’t be angry. go play with the auto keltecs.

  25. Antius on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 2:58 pm 

    Yeah that was a wordfest. I did learn something from it and of course much I already know. If JuanP disappeared tomorrow, Davy would have nothing to do all day! Fighting JuanP, mobster, or whoever the hell he is, in wordfests that no one ever reads, gives some sense of purpose to Davy’s twilight years. It would be both tragic and hilarious, if we found proof that JuanP was an AI computer program, written by some bored adolescent, with the sole intention of eating Davy’s life!

  26. JuanP ID theft on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 3:04 pm 

    Antius said Yeah that was a wordfest. I did learn something f…

    come on juanP you show how personal all this is to you dumbshit. LOL. Like I said you are so easy to figure out.

  27. Antius on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 3:27 pm 

    JuanP appears to be an honorary title, bestowed upon anyone that is pissed off with Davy.

    You and your mystery antagonists have ruined this board with pointless personal arguments. And the daft thing is that you have never met each other. You are literally arguing with vacuum. I find it hard to believe that you enjoy filling this board with empty comments complaining about identity theft. You mentioned antidepressants. That may not be a bad idea. You should lay off alcohol. That causes depression.

  28. Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 3:46 pm 

    This board has been ruined by cyber stalking trolls and extremist with agendas. That pretty well covers most of us in regards to agendas. The worst is JuanP because he has made ID theft and multiple socks part of his comment strategy. As far as JuanP and I are concerned, I have made this abundantly clear, he ignores me I ignore him. That is as good as it gets. I will remain uncensored so if that means multiple empty comments fighting censorship that is the way it goes. It is JuanP lunatic intent to have me censored. I am here to stay so get used to it. I make more on topic comments than most here. I keep the forum stocked with good information. So, if this is you Antius or JuanP the message is the same. I am not leaving and have fun running me off. It is my hope the site owners institute a minimum of moderation with ID’s and multiple ID’s but since they don’t if my ID is stolen, I will show an ID theft. Sometimes I will play these games with JuanP and his gang but most of the time I don’t have time.

    BTW I don’t drink or do drugs. You might try to lay off the booze.

  29. claes on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 4:37 pm 

    Hello supertard
    Don’t be stressed for nuttin’.
    My last goat is gone to the neighbor
    See you in the industry, no more hiding in secure prepper compound.

  30. Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 10:45 pm 

    This board has been ruined by my cyber stalking and trolling and extremist agenda. That pretty well describes me in regards to my agenda. The worst is me, Davy, because I have made ID theft and multiple socks part of my comment strategy. As far as I am concerned, I have made this abundantly clear. Everything anyone says is fair game for harassment. That is as good as it gets. I will remain a douchebag if that means multiple empty comments fighting anyone that disagrees with me, that is the way it goes. It is my Davy lunatic intent to have me censor everyone here. I am here to stay so get used to it. I make more stalking and pricking comments than most here. I keep the forum stocked with zero-hedge DIS-information. So, if this is you dumbasses, the message is the same. I am not leaving and have fun running me off. It is my hope the site owners make a REAL moderator, instead of a pretend one, but since they wont if my ID is stolen, It is hard to ID theft since the over-the-top Davys are impossible to tell from my dumbass REAL comments. I always play these games but most of the time I act like I dont have the time, even though I am here 20/7, 365 a year. Except when I am in Italy, overseeing my Italian goat farm slash doomstead. And my Italian wiffle. Cant forget her.

    BTW I drink and do drugs. Mostly whatever I can mix up using whatever swampland plants I can get a cheap buzz from and combine that with industrial runoff from St. Louis. You however, might try to lay off the booze.

  31. supremacist muzzies jerk on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 11:26 pm 

    Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 10:45 pm
    above is not supertard SAW SAWS pbuh swt obv.

  32. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:01 am 

    supremacist muzzies jerk on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 11:26 pm

    above is JuanP aultard obv.

  33. JuanP ID theft and sock garbage on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:46 am 

    Davy said supremacist muzzies jerk on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 11:2…
    Davy said Your so dumb JuanP. Goats don’t sit stupid.
    JuanP said “Am I spot on or what. These low IQ stalking…
    Davy said Oops, sorry again y’all. I meant to say ‘me is’ no…
    Davy said Thanks for the history lesson cloggo. I always lis…
    supremacist muzzies jerk said Davy on Tue, 1st Oct 2019 10:45 pm above is not su…
    Davy said This board has been ruined by my cyber stalking an…
    Davy said Maybe Jesus was onto something cloggo? Who knows?
    supremacist muzzies goat said hello super goat SAW SAWS pbuh swt dont’ swe…
    supremacist muzzies jerk said dear super goat SAW SAWS pbuh swt, please be ware…

  34. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:47 am 

    dirty Schiff shit:
    “Dead Deutsche Banker’s Son Peddled Trump Financial “Dirt” To The Highest Bidder – Which Adam Schiff Promptly Subpoenaed”
    https://tinyurl.com/y62uewqn zero hedge

    “Val Broeksmit, stepson of top Deutche Bank executive Bill Broeksmit – who committed suicide in January 2014 in the wake of several banking scandals he had overseen, had been trying to sell or distribute information from the German bank which he obtained after his father’s death, which may have contained information on Donald Trump, according to the New York Times…Broeksmit was eventually introduced to Schiff through the musician Moby (Schiff’s “friend and neighbor” who said the CIA asked him to help spread dirt on Trump and Russia – h/t @LeicaLexus). When Schiff refused to pay for the materials, the lawmaker instead issued a subpoena for them…Second, Fusion GPS paid Broeksmit $1,000 to give the documents to a reporter for the Financial Times on New Year’s Eve, 2016 – so they’ve been in the Trump resistance’s arsenal for more than three years without seeing the light of day. Simpson then convinced Broeksmit to work with him – instructing him via encrypted messaging to start searching for “Any Russia stuff at all,” adding “Let’s get you here ASAP”…Two days later, Simpson and Broeksmit met in the US Virgin Islands to look for dirt on Trump, Russia and Trump donor Robert Mercer – a financial backer of Breitbart and then Steve Bannon…According to the report, “After the three-hour session, Mr. Broeksmit still needed some stroking, and the F.B.I. agents obliged. They told Mr. Broeksmit he could have a special advisory title. They promised to keep him in the loop as their investigation proceeded. They let him tell the world — via this article — that he was a cooperating witness in a federal criminal investigation. They even helped procure a visa for his French girlfriend.” At the end of the day it appears that Brieksmit attempted to help take Trump down with information he didn’t himself understand, and he’s now being punished for delivering a nothing burger by The Times’ David Enrich, who details it all in his new book – “Dark Towers.”

  35. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:48 am 

    “US Dollar Status as Global Reserve Currency Slides”
    https://tinyurl.com/y3opnw7j wolf street

    “Total global foreign exchange reserves in all currencies ticked up 1.1% from the first quarter, to $11.7 trillion. US-dollar-denominated exchange reserves rose only 0.7% to $6.79 trillion, and their share of total global foreign exchange reserves fell to 61.63%, down from 61.86% in the prior quarter…The goal was for the euro to achieve parity with the dollar. These hopes were brutally derailed by the euro sovereign debt crisis, and the euro got stuck at a share of around 20% — 20.3% in the second quarter 2019…Since its inclusion in the IMF’s currency basket – the Special Drawing Rights (SDR) – in October 2016, the Chinese renminbi has been officially a global reserve currency. But the patience of folks who’re hoping that the renminbi would quickly knock the dollar off its perch continues to be severely tested: In the second quarter, the share of the renminbi ticked up a smidgen to a record but tiny share of 1.97%.”

  36. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:48 am 

    “Poland: Zero Emissions Is A Trillion-Dollar Fantasy”
    https://tinyurl.com/y4lwffug oil price

    “Reducing emissions in Poland to zero will cost the country between $760 and $980 billion (700-900 billion euro), said Energy Minister Krzysztof Tchorzewski, as quoted by Reuters. “Of course, these costs would obviously be spread over years. But I treat it as a fantasy when someone says that Poland is able to reach the zero-emission goal by 2050,” Tchorzewski said, according to a report in Polish state news agency PAP. Poland is in fact not opposed to zero emissions. However, as Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in June, it will need a solid compensation package for its industry in exchange for a firm commitment to the EU’s ambitious climate change goals. “Poland wants to catch up with Europe, not to perish. Each percent means huge costs,” Energy Minister Krzysztof Tchorzewski said, referring to the percentage of renewable energy in Poland.”

  37. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:49 am 

    Dutch industrial farming under fire:
    “Dutch Farmers In Mass Revolt Against Green Fascism”
    https://tinyurl.com/y3euz9j8 summit

    “Thousands of Dutch farmers descended on the Netherlands capital to protest against onerous environmental restrictions that threaten their livelihoods. The demonstrations were sparked after the coalition government proposed that “Dutch livestock farming should be slashed to meet commitments on reducing nitrogen emissions,” reports Dutch News NL. Farmers traveled to the Hague in their tractors, causing tailbacks in excess of 620 miles and huge traffic jams around and in the city. Despite a global propaganda offensive by the establishment centered around amplifying alarmist climate rhetoric from the likes of Greta Thunberg, ordinary working people appear to be rejecting the conditioning in their droves.”

  38. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:49 am 

    “Coal is still king’ in Southeast Asia even as countries work toward cleaner energy”
    https://tinyurl.com/y5upedug cnbc

    “In its report published in December, the IEA projected coal use through 2023 to be stable as strong consumption growth in Southeast Asia and India offsets declining usage in Europe and North America. “Coal demand grows across much of Asia due to its affordability and availability,” the IEA in that report. Not only will coal continue to be the dominant fuel source in power generation in Southeast Asia, its use will grow and peak in 2027 before slowing, the Wood Mackenzie study found. By 2040, coal will account for 36% of Southeast Asia’s energy mix for power generation, according to the consultancy.”

  39. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:50 am 

    Both Europe and China have stalled:
    “Why China’s Renewable Energy Transition Is Losing Momentum”
    https://tinyurl.com/y246r5px yale 360

    “Growth of wind and solar in China is slowing as government funding for green energy falters and upgrades to the transmission infrastructure lag. With China’s CO2 emissions again on the rise, experts worry the world’s largest emitter may fall short of key climate goals…roadblocks that have recently slowed the nation’s green energy transition and led to an increase in CO2 emissions following several years when emissions had plateaued. Although major solar and wind power installations in China’s more far-flung provinces can produce large amounts of renewable energy, a lack of high-voltage transmission infrastructure means that a sizeable percentage of that green energy still goes unused. In addition, as renewable energy prices have fallen and the central government has grown increasingly concerned about the impact of the U.S.-China trade war on China’s economy, renewable subsidies are being phased out. Wind and solar facilities must now compete directly at auction with other forms of power generation. China’s green energy sector seems increasingly capable of winning that competition, but solar energy installations are nevertheless expected to drop by about half this year, from a peak of 53 gigawatts in 2017. And while curtailing subsidies for wind and solar power, the central government has sharply increased financial support for what it calls “new energy” extraction, which includes fracking of shale gas and separating methane from coal. Those subsidies are an important reason behind China’s rising CO2 emissions…“Though China is the largest clean energy market in the world, wind and solar only accounted for 5.2 percent and 2.5 percent of China’s national power generation in 2018…The degree of curtailment has been falling — from 17 percent in 2016 to 7 percent last year — but Tu says that is still too high. Elevated solar curtailment rates in the provinces of Gansu and Xinjiang, as well as in Tibet, led China’s National Energy Agency to halt approvals for new solar projects in those regions for 2019. “Wind and solar curtailments have been a chronic policy challenge in China in recent years, indicating an urgent need for additional power sector reform,” says Tu…Another problem is that renewable energy projects are facing land-use restrictions that protect agricultural, industrial, and urban land in provinces like Guangdong in South China, the country’s economic powerhouse”

  40. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:50 am 

    “Beyond quantum supremacy: the hunt for useful quantum computers”
    https://tinyurl.com/y4qr8dj4 nature

    “Researchers search for ways to put today’s small noisy quantum systems to work…it is still early days, and no one is sure whether it is even possible to build a useful quantum computer…Today’s quantum machines have at best a few dozen quantum bits, or qubits, and they are often beset by computation-destroying noise. Researchers are still decades — and many thousands of qubits — away from general-purpose quantum computers, ones that could do long-heralded calculations such as factoring large numbers. A team at Google has now reportedly demonstrated a quantum computer that can outperform conventional machines, but such ‘quantum supremacy’ is expected to be extremely limited. For general applications, 30 years is “not an unrealistic timescale”

  41. Troll That bitch on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 7:51 am 

    JuanP the stalking cyber bully and low IQ fuck nut

  42. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 9:51 am 

    I hope y’all enjoyed ignoring my regularly scheduled early morning off topic zero-iq copy and paste spam dump, as much as I enjoyed wasting my time puking it out.

    Lovingly,
    Davy

  43. supremacist muzzies jerk on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 10:06 am 

    supertard SAW SAWS pbuh swt
    please go play with the auto keltecs and let someone else take care of the goats.
    you didn’t have a good day yesterday. you should’d ignored uneducated makako (UM) SAW SAWS pbuh swt and virgin bribes antius SAW SAWS pbuh swt

  44. JuanP ID theft and sock garbage on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 10:15 am 

    supremacist muzzies jerk said supertard SAW SAWS pbuh swt please go play with th…
    Davy said I hope y’all enjoyed ignoring my regularly schedul…

  45. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 11:23 am 

    “JuanP appears to be an honorary title, bestowed upon anyone that is pissed off with Davy.”
    That’s write Antius. JuanP can be anybody anywhere all around the world. It’s more fun that way.

    “You are literally arguing with vacuum.”
    It’s a important part of my perpetually endless mental exercises. A guy needs to keep a sharp mind for when the collapse happens Antius. I don’t have a vacuum cleaner in my doomstead to argue with, so this is the next best thing.

  46. Davy on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 11:24 am 

    All the part my ongoing efforts to keep the board well-stocked with my signature cut&paste ZH DIS-information. If I am feeling up to it, I might throw a tantrum or twenty later on. Stay tuned.

    Victory!

    dumbasses

  47. supremacist muzzies jerk on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 11:34 am 

    super goat SAW SAWS pbuh swt dont’ sweat
    take temporary retirement like i did and play with auto keltecs and feed the goats. you were irritable yesterday, why?
    don’t let these tards who used technolgoy the innernet ™ that supertards DARPA SAW SAWS pbuh swt developed for me to enjoy and i pay jizya of auto keltecs and 1 million rounds for them – i’m very humble.
    they should be thankful but they team up with libturds like you and me to fling poo at supertard america. nothing new here. don’t get angry ok supertard SAW SAWS pbuh swt

  48. JuanP ID theft and sock garbage on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 11:48 am 

    supremacist muzzie jerk said please sign the sahada so i know you guys are real…

    supremacist muzzies jerk said super goat SAW SAWS pbuh swt dont’ sweat tak…

    Davy said All the part my ongoing efforts to keep the board…

    Davy said “JuanP appears to be an honorary title, bestowed u…

  49. supremacist muzzies jerk on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 11:58 am 

    hello supertards SAW SAWS pbuh swt what with the muzzies love and putin love and the xie love? are you guys abandoning project america that supertards built for me to enjoy including the innernet ™ that DARPA supertards built for me to enjoy?
    if so give me some time to adjust to lovin’ muzzies, sharia, and living on jizya and love putin. i want to be like supertard snowden who was given limited hangouts by supertards SAW SAWS pbuh swt and now he keeps saying he wants to come back, i wonder why.
    libturds and tards using innernet ™ that our supertards built to attack supertarda amieric ainstead of giving thanks but that’s nothing new

  50. JuanP on Wed, 2nd Oct 2019 4:00 pm 

    Antius “It would be both tragic and hilarious, if we found proof that JuanP was an AI computer program, written by some bored adolescent, with the sole intention of eating Davy’s life.”
    ROFLMFAO! Most of the comments attributed to me are written by the entity stealing identities and using multiple logins. I don’t know whether this is a human or an AI. If it’s an actual person/s, I hope someone is paying them to do this. If it is an actual human doing this out of sheer insanity, it is someone to be deeply pitied, for sure.

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