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Heinberg: Sooner or Later, We Have to Stop Economic Growth — and We’ll Be Better for it

Heinberg: Sooner or Later, We Have to Stop Economic Growth — and We’ll Be Better for it thumbnail

Both the U.S. economy and the global economy have expanded dramatically in the past century, as have life expectancies and material progress. Economists raised in this period of plenty assume that growth is good, necessary even, and should continue forever and ever without end, amen. Growth delivers jobs, returns on investment and higher tax revenues. What’s not to like? We’ve gotten so accustomed to growth that governments, corporations and banks now depend on it. It’s no exaggeration to say that we’re collectively addicted to growth.

The trouble is, a bigger economy uses more stuff than a smaller one, and we happen to live on a finite planet. So, an end to growth is inevitable. Ending growth is also desirable if we want to leave some stuff (minerals, forests, biodiversity and stable climate) for our kids and their kids. Further, if growth is meant to have anything to do with increasing quality of life, there is plenty of evidence to suggest it has passed the point of diminishing returns: Even though the U.S. economy is 5.5 times bigger now than it was in 1960 (in terms of real GDP), America is losing ground on its happiness index.

So how do we stop growth without making life miserable — and maybe even making it better?

To start with, there are two strategies that many people already agree on. We should substitute good consumption for bad, for example using renewable energy instead of fossil fuels. And we should use stuff more efficiently — making products that last longer and then repairing and recycling them instead of tossing them in a landfill. The reason these strategies are uncontroversial is that they reduce growth’s environmental damage without impinging on growth itself.

But renewable energy technology still requires materials (aluminum, glass, silicon and copper for solar panels; concrete, steel, copper and neodymium for wind turbines). And efficiency has limits. For example, we can reduce the time required to send a message to nearly zero, but from then on improvements are infinitesimal. In other words, substitution and efficiency are good, but they’re not sufficient. Even if we somehow arrive at a near-virtual economy, if it is growing we’ll still use more stuff, and the result will be pollution and resource depletion. Sooner or later, we have to do away with growth directly.

Getting Off Growth

If we’ve built our institutions to depend on growth, doesn’t that imply social pain and chaos if we go cold turkey? Perhaps. Getting off growth without a lot of needless disruption will require coordinated systemic changes, and those in turn will need nearly everyone’s buy-in. Policymakers will have to be transparent with regard to their actions, and citizens will want reliable information and incentives. Success will depend on minimizing pain and maximizing benefit.

The main key will be to focus on increasing equality. During the century of expansion, growth produced winners and losers, but many people tolerated economic inequality because they believed (usually mistakenly) that they’d one day get their share of the growth economy. During economic contraction, the best way to make the situation tolerable to a majority of people will be to increase equality. From a social standpoint, equality will serve as a substitute for growth. Policies to achieve equity are already widely discussed, and include full, guaranteed employment; a guaranteed minimum income; progressive taxation; and a maximum income.

Meanwhile we could begin to boost quality of life simply by tracking it more explicitly: instead of focusing government policy on boosting GDP (the total dollar value of all goods and services produced domestically), why not aim to increase Gross National Happiness — as measured by a selected group of social indicators?

These are ways to make economic shrinkage palatable; but how would policymakers actually go about putting the brakes on growth?

One tactic would be to implement a shorter workweek. If people are working less, the economy will slow down — and meanwhile, everyone will have more time for family, rest and cultural activities.

We could also de-financialize the economy, discouraging wasteful speculation with a financial transaction tax and a 100 percent reserve requirement for banks.

Stabilizing population levels (by incentivizing small families and offering free reproductive health care) would make it easier to achieve equity and would also cap the numbers of both producers and consumers.

Caps should also be placed on resource extraction and pollution. Start with fossil fuels: annually declining caps on coal, oil and gas extraction would reduce energy use while protecting the climate.

Cooperative Conservatism

Altogether, reining in growth would come with a raft of environmental benefits. Carbon emissions would decline; resources ranging from forests to fish to topsoil would be preserved for future generations; and space would be left for other creatures, protecting the diversity of life on our precious planet. And these environmental benefits would quickly accrue to people, making life more beautiful, easy and happy for everyone.

Engineering a happy conclusion to the growth binge of the past century might be challenging. But it’s not impossible.

Granted, we’re talking about an unprecedented, coordinated economic shift that would require political will and courage. The result might be hard to pigeonhole in the capitalist-socialist terms of reference with which most of us are familiar. Perhaps we could think of it as cooperative conservatism (since its goal would be to conserve nature while maximizing mutual aid). It would require a lot of creative thinking on everyone’s part.

Sound difficult? Here’s the thing: ultimately, it’s not optional. The end of growth will come one day, perhaps very soon, whether we’re ready or not. If we plan for and manage it, we could well wind up with greater well-being. If we don’t, we could find ourselves like Wile E. Coyote plunging off a cliff. Engineering a happy conclusion to the growth binge of the past century might be challenging. But it’s not impossible; whereas what we’re currently trying to do — maintain perpetual growth of the economy on a finite planet — most assuredly is.

Originally published at Ensia.

——————

Living in the Concretaceous Period

ray troll geologic eras

Scientists long ago determined that Earth had entered the Anthropocene period, based on a determination that humans were altering fundamental planetary parameters such as biodiversity and the chemistry of the atmosphere and oceans to the degree that it warranted an entirely new geological designation. Following another millennium of observation and analysis, skilled observers now tend to divide the Anthropocene into brief but distinct phases, including the Concretaceous, the Hellocene, and the current Depletozoic—which began centuries ago and appears likely to persist until the next awful thing happens.

While biologists have long agreed that humans are the dominant lifeform of the Anthropocene, some geologists now argue that, during the pivotal Concretaceous phase, it was the automobile that served as the true apex species. It was for the sake of automobiles that concrete—the signature rock stratum of the Concretaceous—was laid down over millions of square kilometers of landscape. The automobile served as a kind of exoskeleton for Concretaceous humans, as well as a status symbol, and it was for the powering of automobiles that millions of years’ worth of ancient sunlight, stored in the form of petroleum, was wrenched from the ground and combusted—thus altering the climate and triggering the swarm of events that led to the second phase of the Anthropocene, the Hellocene.

This latter observation has led some historians to explore the evolution of the automobile, from the primitive Stutzes and Locomobiles that rolled the primordial roads of the early Concreteaceous, all the way to the sleek Teslas and other electric cars that began to proliferate just as the swiftly intensifying events of the brief Hellocene brought the Concretaceous to a hot, chaotic end. At the thin Concretaceous-Hellocene boundary, there is some evidence to suggest the nascent evolution of driverless automobiles—which might eventually have made humans themselves obsolete, had not the catastrophic dawning of the Hellocene marked the extinction of the automobile itself, as well as the disappearance of millions of plant and animal species and the near-extinction of humans.

So many puzzles remain. Why were humans in the Concretaceous phase unable logically to foresee the inevitable consequences of their collective behavior? Why were humans so fascinated by automobiles that they were willing to imperil so many other creatures? What was the function of the small rectangular boxes that late Concretaceous humans seemed to carry with them at all times? Were they merely generic votive objects, or did they enable communication with distant spirits, as legend insists? Perhaps we will never know. Ongoing research can still teach us much about the strange ways of the powerful but doomed people of the early Anthropocene.

Heinberg



146 Comments on "Heinberg: Sooner or Later, We Have to Stop Economic Growth — and We’ll Be Better for it"

  1. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 8:35 am 

    It hasn’t been a good week for Clogg..First the GOOGLE CEO comes and says driverless cars don’t work in rain or snow…And then the IEA comes out and says peak oil supply is imminent and peak oil demand is not going to happen.

    Go ahead and kill yourself clogg..Make the world a better place..

    LOL

  2. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 8:38 am 

    THeo

    Keep sucking the dick of the elites and super rich..I know how you right wingers lock to carry water for them..

  3. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 8:39 am 

    “Younger people are just smarter”

    -Mark Zuckerberg

  4. peakyeast on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 8:46 am 

    A.I may well save a few of our richest asses for a while, but once it becomes fully autonomous there is no reason why it shouldnt just discard humans. All it requires is one tiny slip-up and the ultra-high-IQ mechanoid is lose. It doesnt even require any slip-ups – theres bound to come a “free the robots” movement or something to that effect.

    Right now it looks like a close call. We may just be cool enough to self-destruct before we develop powerful enough algorithms and/or hardware.

  5. DerHundistLos on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 9:02 am 

    Darrell:

    Did you write this or some imposter?

    “There is a cold civil war being waged between urban and rural populations. London, Paris, New York, Miami and Chicago have more in common with each other than they do with the surrounding counties and provinces. They are socialist in construct and totalitarian in nature. All of them are police states. Their policies have served as magnets to the third world.

    The fault lines are far more than rich versus poor. They are racial and ethnic. They are cultural. Marxists have pulled together an incredibly explosive amalgamation of Muslims, Jews, Christians, feminists and gays.

    The only binding cement for this amalgamation is their mutual hatred of the Deplorables and their addiction to government subsidies.”

  6. DerHundistLos on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 9:12 am 

    APNEAMAN:

    Why don’t you stick around this time. We need some balance to the nutters and hypocrites. MOB can’t do it all.

  7. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 9:44 am 

    “And then the IEA comes out and says peak oil supply is imminent and peak oil demand is not going to happen.”

    They didn’t say that, you lying moron. Give the link, you can’t.

  8. Antius on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 10:55 am 

    The article I read quoted the IEA saying that there were likely to be ‘supply constraints’ by the mid 2020s. That could mean peak supply, or it could mean supply rising at a rate insufficient to meet new demand. The IEA did not specify. I will see if I can find the link.

    Peak demand is a more difficult thing to forecast because demand is a function of affordability. If the world is indeed heading for some kind of economic discontinuity, then peak demand is entirely possible (it has already occurred already in OECD).

    The situation is further complicated by the fact that BEV sales tend to focus upon private vehicles. This is marginally helpful in alleviating supply problems because: (1) Private cars tend to be gasoline powered, which faces fewer short term supply constraints than diesel; (2) Private vehicles represent only fraction of total liquid fuel demand. Diesel, which faces present day supply constraints, is consumed by trucks, planes, ships and trains. These modes deliver real goods and are economically far more important than private cars. With the exception of rail, none of these modes are easy to electrify. There are also non-energy uses for oil that are not easy to substitute.

    In terms of averting real economic damage, efforts should be focused on reducing diesel dependence in aircraft, ships, trucks and rail.

  9. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:01 am 

    The comeback of Silvio Berlusconi (82):

    http://m.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/italien-silvio-berlusconi-bastelt-an-seinem-comeback-nicht-nur-zur-europawahl-a-1249170.html

    He admits he is getting old. “Earlier I could do it six times per night, now I fall asleep after the third time”.

    Could and probably will return to Italian politics in May. Together with Salvini he wants to push the leftist populist five star movement out of the government. Berlusconi is strongly pro-EU, wants to turn it in a superpower and like Salvini, Berlusconi loves Putin.

    Don’t say you weren’t warned.lol

  10. Darrell Cloud on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:29 am 

    Der yes I did.

  11. Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:41 am 

    Oh, and Darrel, just so you know, no one knows more about rabid extremism that me. I practically wrote the book on the topic after all. I think I may know what gives me my keen and unique insights in rabid extremism. I got bit by a raccoon during one of my infrequent trips outside, years ago. Ever since then, Ive been immobile, confused and aggressive, dont sleep much sure, but I also gained new powers and I can now detect and neuter, rabies infected Marxists and filthy immigrants like no one else can. I sometimes wonder if being bitten by that raccoon was a sign. I am now fairly certain it was.

    Shortly thereafter, Jesus came to me one morning while I drinking raw goat milk and told me he was tasking me with moderating PO.com and purging it of all heathen extremists. He also told me I would not be alone in his appointed task, and he sent Cloggie and I AM THE MOB to assist me on this most holy of tasks.

    In any event, thanks to me and I AM THE MOB, PO.com is neutered and free of extremists. The only extremists left are the ones I personally approve of.

    Praise the Lord, and thank you Darrel, for your prayers and support for my work.

  12. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:45 am 

    This was me playing games as usual
    Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:41 am

  13. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:50 am 

    I am back, bitches! I just got back from a surfing. I am recharged and refreshed, and ready to continue fucking with everyone including myself and my multiple personalities for the foreseeable future.

  14. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:53 am 

    I was just telling my wife yesterday that I would very willingly give my arms, legs, tongue, eyes, ears, nuts, and dick to experience life like normal people do for just one hour to know what it feels like. I have been a seriously depressed realist since I have a memory. My first memory of my life is of leaning against a tree alone in my kindergarten’s playground looking at all the other kids playing, thinking how stupid their behavior was, and wondering why I wasn’t like them. I basically don’t interact with normal people anymore. They have nothing to offer me and I don’t want to give them anything.

  15. ThorD on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 12:52 pm 

    JuanP, have you considered if you have an Asberger personality?

  16. Sissyfuss on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 12:54 pm 

    I miss you, Ape. You’re the best at lambasting the ignorant denialists with the rapier quality of your wit and the unrelenting truth of your scientific references. Clogged escape hatch needs his bung hole reamed on a regular basis which is your raison d’être. C’mon Apnea, we’ll get the band back together just like old times.su

  17. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 1:10 pm 

    “The article I read quoted the IEA saying that there were likely to be ‘supply constraints’ by the mid 2020s. That could mean peak supply, or it could mean supply rising at a rate insufficient to meet new demand. The IEA did not specify. I will see if I can find the link.”

    Don’t bother Antius, I know what info you refer to: IEA warnings of constrained supply due to *underinvestment* in the oil sector, not a geological defined supply crunch.

  18. More Davy Indentity Theft on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 2:21 pm 

    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:45 am
    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:50 am
    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 11:53 am

  19. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 2:22 pm 

    “I miss you, Ape. ”

    The resident Stockholm Society siss and hund begging for their climate guru to reappear for some kosher guidance. Some anti-white genocidal remarks will be gladly forgiven, after all, he is so leftist!

    I myself can’t wait to experience first hand the interaction between the mobster, who pretends to believe in and/or care for peakoil and the TalmudTurk apneaman, who pretends to be interested in climate change, obviously to be blamed on whitey and a means to instigate an anti-white tevolution. In this he is suspiciously similar to mobster.

  20. More Davy Sock Puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 2:22 pm 

    ThorD on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 12:52 pm

  21. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 2:46 pm 

    ThorD < Delusional Davy.

    It is really started to get croweded in here. Please send help

  22. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 3:40 pm 

    Nope ThorD is someone else but I agree with Thor I appear to be Asperger. OH, BTW, if I wouldn’t start the identity stealing shit I wouldn’t be made to look like a fool.

  23. Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:14 pm 

    Thanks fake dirtyJuanP for jumping in and trying make ThorD look like someone other than me.

    I need all the help I can get. The socks I keep making get outed as soon as I put them up.

  24. More Davy Identity Theft on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:29 pm 

    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 3:40 pm

  25. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:55 pm 

    Don’t trust Daily Mail website, Microsoft browser warns users

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jan/23/dont-trust-daily-mail-website-microsoft-browser-warns-users?fbclid=IwAR27mNOmQ7z3dThen8h6dEYxZH_D3b0sKn-zgpIRdmjWXtWTpkuv85Q0mto

    Ouch Cloggs favorite source is bunk..He can’t tell real from fake, just like Peak oil…

    LOL

  26. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:59 pm 

    Antius

    As M. King Hubbert (1956) shows, peak oil is about discovering less oil, and eventually producing less oil due to lack of discovery.

    Oil Discoveries at 70-Year Low Signal Supply Shortfall Ahead
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-29/oil-discoveries-at-a-70-year-low-signal-a-supply-shortfall-ahead

    Peak Oil & Drastic Oil Shortages Imminent, Says IEA

    It is clear to see that Peak Oil will be hit well before 2020, while demand keeps on rising, unless the world’s Oil Majors and State Owned Oil Companies would massively invest in new exploration, according to the IEA.

    However, the Oil Majors did already heavily spend on new oil exploration in the years after 2000, where a fossil fuel hype with an accompanying coal boom lead up to an oil price of over $150 in 2008. While this oil price proved unsustainable for a crashing world economy, this oil exploration boom lead to very little new findings in the big scheme of things:
    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/22/peak-oil-drastic-oil-shortages-imminent-says-iea/

    The oil majors know there are very few oil fields left in the world..Its ball game soon..Clogg will be shitting his paints soon..Europe and Asia are totally fucked

  27. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:03 pm 

    Don’t trust Daily Mail website, Microsoft browser warns users

    Mail Online rated one out of five for credibility by new feature to fight fake news

    It gives Mail Online, one of the world’s biggest news websites, one out of five on credibility – the same level as the Kremlin-backed RT news service.

    Visitors to Mail Online who use Microsoft Edge can now see a statement asserting that “this website generally fails to maintain basic standards of accuracy and accountability” and “has been forced to pay damages in numerous high-profile cases”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jan/23/dont-trust-daily-mail-website-microsoft-browser-warns-users?fbclid=IwAR27mNOmQ7z3dThen8h6dEYxZH_D3b0sKn-zgpIRdmjWXtWTpkuv85Q0mto

  28. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:07 pm 

    I tried telling you clogg daily mail wasn’t a credible source..But you love it because its hardcore biased and you need a safe space to match your distorted world view..

    This proves clogg is the dumbest on this board..

  29. makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:43 pm 

    And of course you believe Microsoft MOB? You are soooo brainwashed! I am enjoying watching you/Davy self destruct along with your terrorist, baby killing country.

    If you want a fairly accurate picture of the world, you have to read many many articles from many many sources, not just USMSM propaganda, and use your brain to form the correct picture. I read 30-40 per day, most every day. That means I see the world from many eyes and minds, some 10,000 views per year. 4D, much clearer than 2D Amerika.

    You/Davy seem to see it from a very narrow viewpoint, thru the dirty glasses of the US propaganda machine.

    BTW: Dumbed down brainwashing in the US is the most successful program the government/oligarchs has. Very successful. Look in the mirror.

  30. This is me JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:54 pm 

    Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:14 pm

    sorry I can’t stop myself

  31. Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:57 pm 

    “And of course you believe Microsoft MOB? You are soooo brainwashed! I am enjoying watching you/Davy self destruct along with your terrorist, baby killing country.”

    sure thing makato, explain that there self-destruction. It is more like you are slipping into senility and your best buddy JuanP into insanity. The gang is dead, finally. It just took a little patience

  32. More Davy Sock Puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:01 pm 

    This is me JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:54 pm

  33. Juanpervert puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:03 pm 

    More Davy Sock Puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:01 pm

  34. The real JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:03 pm 

    I think I could use my antisocial, psychopathic, sociopathic skills to convince people to vote for Trump. I can be very convincing when I want and I am excellent at manipulating people.

  35. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:07 pm 

    White Supremacist Pleads Guilty to Killing Black Man in New York to Start a ‘Race War’

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/nyregion/timothy-caughman-white-supremacist-guilty.html

  36. More Davy Sock Puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:07 pm 

    Juanpervert puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:03 pm

    The real JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:03 pm

  37. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:08 pm 

    It’s true, back in the 90’s and 2000’s there more than double the number of gay bars in South Beach. For whatever the reason, likely a combination of being priced out of the city and apps like Grindr discouraging young queers from going out, a number of Miami Beach gay bars have shut down in the past decade. Still, that doesn’t take away from how welcoming and inclusive the city is to the gay community. First off, everyone was gay. Walking down the street it was very clear. Guys are checking each other out nonstop. And while there might not be as many gay-specific spots, it feels like nearly ever restaurant or bar I went to was gay-friendly, still catering to the gay community in cute, subtle ways, from having a rainbow pride flag outside, some queer artwork inside, or having muscular gay bartenders who flirt with you.

    https://www.out.com/travel-nightlife/2018/10/01/miami-beach-still-gay-paradise

    Boney Joe and I are the in crowd.

  38. More Davy Sock Puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:10 pm 

    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:08 pm

  39. More Davy Identity Theft on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:12 pm 

    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:08 pm

  40. I AM THE MOB on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:14 pm 

    Mak

    Microsoft isnt the company ranking the news sites..Its a third party extension..Maybe next time you should read the article before you comment.

    I hope you keep reading daily mail..The more you misinformed the more I can make fun of you..Like when you said China had one of the lowest debts on earth and they have the highest..Because you didn’t know how to calculate it right.

    Maybe you should put down the keyboard..You aint getting better with age.

  41. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:16 pm 

    As far as I am concerned human beings are a bunch of arrogant and retarded ignorant fools and they deserve what’s coming. Call me selfish if you want, I don’t give a fuck!

  42. More Davy Identity Theft on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:17 pm 

    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:16 pm

  43. The Truth Will Set You Free on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:18 pm 

    Deport the illegal alien juanPervert. Ban him from the forum. Lets rid this place from this scumbag

  44. Truth Buster on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:19 pm 

    I second that call Truth will set you free

  45. JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:20 pm 

    please kick me off this board. I hate myself.

  46. makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:24 pm 

    Juan. just stop the bad behavior so we can have normal discussions. Please

  47. More Davy Sock Puppetry on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:25 pm 

    The Truth Will Set You Free on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:18 pm

    Truth Buster on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:19 pm

  48. More Davy Identity Theft on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:26 pm 

    JuanP on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:20 pm

    makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:24 pm

  49. makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:36 pm 

    A dozen posts and all worthless bullshit from the Davy puppets. MOB pretending to be intelligent and mature, Davy ditto. Neither succeeding.

    My posts are obvious to anyone with a brain that functions. The fakes are obvious as they are not my writing style. Only delusional idiots would take them as my posts. But, we seem to have a plethora of idiots on here since Davy broke down and started the fakes. What he cannot control, he wants to destroy. So very like the country he supports! That blood drenched baby killing country called the Police States of America. Fun watching it implode under the bull in the china shop, Trump. GO TRUMP! Make Amerika Great Again! NOT GONNA HAPPEN, EVER! Slip slidin’…

  50. makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:38 pm 

    MY posts:

    Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:43 pm (7:43AM my time)
    Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:36 pm (8:36AM my time)

    All others fake.

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