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Page added on January 3, 2019
Has oil’s demise been greatly exaggerated?
I often speak to people who are concerned about how long the oil industry will last and have the misconception that its demise is just around the corner.
This is very far from the truth and I think comes from two factors, that oil price has been below the heady days of $100/bbl for some time and confusion between electricity and energy.
Since the oil price drop in 2013 the world has increased its oil consumption every year. In 2013 we consumed around 91 million barrels a day and now it’s about 97 million barrels a day and unless something very dramatic happens, this trend will continue for the near future. I expect that on the current evolution to cleaner energies peak world oil consumption is about 15 to 20 years away. Most of the increase in demand comes from the developing world driven by improving living standards and population increases. In the western world we have nearly reached peak demand mainly due to improved efficiencies but also due to a growing substitution of cleaner fuels starting to have an effect.
There is plenty of oil around to meet this demand so oil basins around the world are going to have to be able to produce at competitive prices or will lose out. In the UK there are several initiatives from the OGA and others enabling this, but the main driver will be technology. We need to find more efficient ways to produce our oil if we want to remain a significant producer for the next few decades.
The other reason for misconception that oil is on its death bed is the confusion between energy and electricity. We have all seen commentators in the media, including our politicians, saying Scotland supplied all its energy from renewable sources. In fact what they mean is we produced all our electricity from renewable sources. Unfortunately, electricity is a relatively small element of our energy usage, in the UK a little less than a fifth, low on a world scale as we use gas extensively for heating. Most of the rest of our energy needs are still fulfilled by fossil fuels, over 70% of the total.
If we want to reduce our carbon footprint then we need to convert end users to electricity generated from renewable sources or use a clean fuel like Hydrogen where Aberdeen leads the way. The way getting most traction is going to electric cars with Scotland being committed to stop selling combustion engine driven cars by 2032 and the UK by 2040. This is no small undertaking as to convert all cars to electricity will require close to doubling our electricity generating capacity, lots of windmills, and substantially upgrading the grid. Large investments and a flood of planning applications required, hope they are approved more quickly that our offshore windfarm.
If we go for Hydrogen, we still need the windfarms, to make the hydrogen renewably, and a network of Hydrogen fuelling stations covering the country, another massive investment which I think unlikely in addition to the infrastructure for electric vehicles. So Hydrogen will be limited to vehicles making or working locally around a limited number of fuelling stations, like the buses here in Aberdeen.
So even with the renewable energy supply evolving oil is still going to be around for many years to come unless the world gets a catastrophic wakeup call on the impact of global warming and evolution turns to revolution and things are forced to change more rapidly.
66 Comments on "Has oil’s demise been greatly exaggerated?"
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:22 am
e-plane speed record is currently held by Siemens: 210 mph
Rolls-Royce wants to smash that record with 300 mph
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6555105/Rolls-Royce-reveals-plan-smash-speed-record-worlds-300mph-electric-airplane.html
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 4:36 am
“The energy descent future”
https://tinyurl.com/ycej6lz7
“The heavy lifting will need to be done by renewables, principally photovoltaic and wind-generated electricity. But even with the luxury of a more relaxed timeframe, there are very sound reasons for expecting that renewably-powered societies will be dramatically different to those we know today, in terms of both the scale and the nature of energy services available, but moreover, the physical transformations that shape daily life.”
“Knowledge humility the high-profile model-based renewable energy transition studies that garner widespread public attention tend overwhelmingly to feed the expectation of continuity between life as it’s currently known in the rich world, and post-carbon futures. They mesh neatly with modernity’s energy abundance, even if the worlds portrayed are leaner courtesy of belt-tightening efficiency measures. This plays a central role in their political palatability, and likely also in their often enthusiastic media reception. Dig a little deeper though, and the research literature in this area tells a different story. Yet, at the other extreme of an often polarized discourse there is outright refutation of the possibility that technologically-sophisticated societies with long-term prospects can be powered by wind and sun alone. While we’re not inclined to simply dismiss these views, of greater interest is the very substantial middle-ground between the ‘easy’ and ‘impossible’ poles. These are the many investigators who recognize post-carbon futures as subject to deep uncertainties, and who recognize the limits of future-oriented inquiry that employs inherently fallible and incomplete models of the world.”
“Economic deintensification given the tight correlation between economic activity as measured by GDP, and energy use, this implies also a transformation beyond economic growth as we know it. Energy descent futures are also futures of economic degrowth. A default cultural narrative says that this implies deprivation and an end to human wellbeing. We say: not so fast. There is enormous scope for supporting high levels of experienced wellbeing while doing things in ways very different from those familiar in contemporary forms of political economy. We outline approaches to this under the banner of ‘voluntary simplification’ and ‘degrowth’, but the approaches are myriad and go by many other names – for instance, permaculture. A further example is ‘economic deintensification’ as articulated by the late David Fleming in his book Lean Logic, whereby growth of the informal – household and neighborhood – economy is encouraged at the expense of the formal economy, so much of which serves its own bloated and distended production needs, as distinct from fulfilling the immediate wants of the people for whom it purportedly exists in the first place. Do we see such comprehensive shifts in culture, identity and ways of life as presenting easy or painless paths? No. But we also recognize that throughout human existence, people have lived well under conditions far less energetically and materially favorable than today. In fact, on the basis of this we might ask just how favorable these energetically and materially intense ways of life have turned out to be. The potential exists for energy descent futures to be meshed with stories of renewed hope for humanity.”
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 6:42 am
“The energy descent future”
The deep dishonesty of the Ozark oracle is illustrated once again in that he leaves out the most important aspect of the link he refers to:
The transition to renewable energy will entail a period of economic deintensification or ‘degrowth’ that could benefit wellbeing.
Davy is the typical American economy man, who gazes at stock charts all day. Money is the only value he knows. And if an economy would contract, already “collapse” is at hand and the world comes to an end. Or so he thinks.
For me as a more “blood and soil” type, one of the attractions of the Heinberg story was that he promised a collapse, which would have greatly benefited a white nationalist agenda. I care about history, identity, culture, DNA, my own people and I despise the US c*ck suckers and water carriers of the US empire in The Hague, Berlin and elsewhere in Europe, that will eventually mean our kind being wiped out if we don’t get rid of the empire, sooner or later. And if it takes a good depression and/or WW3, so be it.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 7:36 am
nederliar
“The transition to renewable energy will entail a period of economic deintensification or ‘degrowth’ that could benefit wellbeing.”
What Davy posted:
“The potential exists for energy descent futures to be meshed with stories of renewed hope for humanity.”
‘Davy is the typical American economy man, who gazes at stock charts all day. Money is the only value he knows.’
LOL, nederliar, I am not a typical American and what I do with fincial and economic references is neuter your extremist agenda and as is apparent makes you very angry.
“And if an economy would contract, already “collapse” is at hand and the world comes to an end. Or so he thinks.”
Nederliar at it again. I don’t talk about MOB style mad max collapse and I challenge to show documentation for your lie.
Natsee racist pig on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 7:37 am
For me as a more “blood and soil” type, one of the attractions of the Heinberg story was that he promised a collapse, which would have greatly benefited a white nationalist agenda.
“I care about history, identity, culture, DNA, my own people and I despise the US c*ck suckers”
And war pig
“WW3, so be it.”
Nice when dirty juan is gone on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 7:49 am
where is peckerhead dirtyjuan? Maybe we can now get back to a normal forum without identity theft, puppeteering, and juanP low IQ comments.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 8:06 am
“And war pig”
Says the fucker who loves the war machine of his club, that spends half of the world’s expenditure on “defense”, has firebombed every German city, has nuked cities and destroyed intentionally his mother civilization, together with the worst criminals in history, the Soviets and your satanic owners invented a holohoax afterwards.
http://www.unz.com/book/joel_s_a_hayward__the-fate-of-jews-in-german-hands/
Folks like you and mob are disgusting people, but the revenge is near. What you and the Soviets did to us, we can do to you, together with the Chinese and Russians. And US white nationalism is going to deliver the means for the ultimate downfall of ZOG and erasure of Anglosphere/Five Eyes from history.
You better make up your mind if you want to defend allies Taiwan and the Philippines and naval access to the South China Sea. Because if you do, you have your WW3 at hand, initiated by the fight between China and America over who is the #1 on this planet. And that fight is going to be lost by you in the South China Sea and you will be thrown back onto Hawaii.
And the coming humiliation of Washington at the hands of China, will push white America over the tipping point and secede from third world USA.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6545475/Admiral-warns-U-S-Chinas-navy-sink-two-aircraft-carriers-kill-10-000-sailors.html
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 8:19 am
Conflicting signals from Britain.
The pro-May DailyMail reported that a majority of the Tory voters support, grudgingly, the May-deal.
The Telegraph has different figures:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/04/tory-members-would-choose-no-deal-brexit-theresa-mays-plan-poll/
“Most Tory members would choose a no-deal Brexit over Theresa May’s plan, poll shows”
Your Clogster one-man Brexit rating agency has just downgraded the chances on a deal towards 30-70.
Expect rapid escalation in case of a no-deal. Total EU-UK blockade. Goods piling up in the UK. US smelling its chance, prints a few billion worth of new dollars and buys up the goods for pennies on the dollar and the UK will be a dollar country from then on. Iron curtain in the Channel. Skirmishes between French and British planes over fishing. Increased American presence in the UK. Russian fighter jets in France. Breakup of the West is a fact and Orwell will be proven right.
https://documents1940.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/george_orwell_map.jpg
Rapid improvement European-Russian relations and Eurasian solidarity.
#NewSilkRoad
Iranian new pipelines to the Caspian to service Eurasian markets, independent of the Gulf exit.
And the battle lines for WW3 will be defined.
Antius on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 8:21 am
““The energy descent future”
https://tinyurl.com/ycej6lz7
“The heavy lifting will need to be done by renewables, principally photovoltaic and wind-generated electricity. But even with the luxury of a more relaxed timeframe, there are very sound reasons for expecting that renewably-powered societies will be dramatically different to those we know today, in terms of both the scale and the nature of energy services available, but moreover, the physical transformations that shape daily life.””
Good find Davy. I have often thought that most renewable energy advocates tend to gloss over the hard changes needed for a renewable energy future. For all too many, it isn’t about finding practical solutions; but selling an appealing utopian vision for the future that they support for purely emotional and ideological reasons. These people are dissuaded from examining hard questions; for fear that it will lead them in a direction that makes their beloved idealism look less appealing.
Oil at $20/bl really was ridiculously cheap. High density, stored, portable energy; available at a cost of 1 cent per kWh. It allowed freedom and prosperity that simply cannot be replicated using diffuse and intermittent renewable energy. We didn’t have to care very much about energy efficiency, because energy was almost free. We could live wherever we wanted, because fast anywhere-to-anywhere transportation was affordable. We could choose the number and arrangement of hours that we worked, because the energy source was controllable. Fossil fuels allowed a just-in-time way of life, which minimised storage and maximised throughput and labour productivity.
When living on intermittent renewable energy, all of these assumptions will be turned on their head. Way of life will inevitably be very different. It will form patterns based upon the need to use the expensive and variable energy most efficiently. Hence, it is unlikely that human beings will use extensive energy storage networks simply to allow intermittent energy to serve a fossil-fuel way of life. Instead, our work will need to be done when energy is available and curtailed when it is not. It is unlikely that we will continue to live in sprawling suburbia. It will be necessary to live within a short distance of where one works. Some functions, such as heating and cooling, will tend to drive collective solutions. Transport will tend towards more collective solutions that are both more energy efficient and more disposed to make use of electricity from the grid. All of society will need to adjust to a more intermittent energy supply. This will shape belief systems, culture and politics at every level.
When the full difficulty of achieving this transition finally dawns on the population at large, I wouldn’t be surprised if we find ourselves with a nuclear energy future after all. When people realise that their lives and prosperity literally hinge on that choice, it will start appear a lot more palatable and a lot of the bullshit that is weighing nuclear power down will rapidly disappear.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 8:24 am
“Says the fucker who loves the war machine of his club, that spends half of the world’s expenditure on “defense”, has firebombed every German city, has nuked cities and destroyed intentionally his mother civilization, together with the worst criminals in history, the Soviets and your satanic owners invented a holohoax afterwards.”
Where douchebag? You can’t put me down with your usual lies without backup. I have maintained I feel allied carpet bombing were war crimes and I have also indicated I would like to see the recognition of a multi-polar world with a US military pullback based upon situations on the ground of course. Other powers will have to follow a different path so we don’t have a wild vacuum created.
“Folks like you and mob are disgusting people, but the revenge is near. What you and the Soviets did to us, we can do to you, together with the Chinese and Russians. And US white nationalism is going to deliver the means for the ultimate downfall of ZOG and erasure of Anglosphere/Five Eyes from history.”
This is an example of anger and resentment of a wounded animal. I have neutered your ridiculous PBM empire thesis and your Nazi racist lies. Now you are hot under the color and lashing out wildly. Screw you nedernazi and the horse you road in on.
“You better make up your mind if you want to defend allies Taiwan and the Philippines and naval access to the South China Sea. Because if you do, you have your WW3 at hand, initiated by the fight between China and America over who is the #1 on this planet. And that fight is going to be lost by you in the South China Sea and you will be thrown back onto Hawaii.”
You don’t even know what you are talking about stupid. These topics are very complicated and lengthy but you think missiles and everything falls into place into a childlike simplicity. What a stupid armchair military wannabee fraud.
“And the coming humiliation of Washington at the hands of China, will push white America over the tipping point and secede from third world USA.”
China and Europe are going down and Russia will flush on down with the rest. The US will go down too but may be a last man standing to the horror of the nedernazi. You are a numbnut extremist with a fantasy agenda of history revisions and fake futures.
Antius on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 8:31 am
“Expect rapid escalation in case of a no-deal. Total EU-UK blockade. Goods piling up in the UK. US smelling its chance, prints a few billion worth of new dollars and buys up the goods for pennies on the dollar and the UK will be a dollar country from then on. Iron curtain in the Channel. Skirmishes between French and British planes over fishing. Increased American presence in the UK. Russian fighter jets in France. Breakup of the West is a fact and Orwell will be proven right.”
Cloggie, you fail to see the situation for what it is. Europe is not a united super state. Britain leaving was the first stage in it’s continuing disintegration. France is more or less bankrupt. Italy is not far behind.
To use a cheesy Americanism: wake up and smell the coffee!
https://gefira.org/en/2018/12/21/european-project-comes-to-an-end/#more-32482
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 8:46 am
Cloggie, you fail to see the situation for what it is. Europe is not a united super state. Britain leaving was the first stage in it’s continuing disintegration. France is more or less bankrupt. Italy is not far behind.
(Continental) Europe falling apart, the standard Anglo wet dream.
And what does “super state” mean? So-called super state US can’t even beat third rate powers North-Vietnam, Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan individually. The US is military a paper tiger, about to fall apart over race.
Gefira btw are Dutch Nazis, total nobodies.
You are sure you want to build on them to make your case?
For me as a reactionary Russia-oriented European neo-Gaullist and Europe-of-the-Fatherlands supporter, I don’t need a super state. A PBM-alliance is enough to fence off predators. Russia just defeated the US strategically in Syria. If you add the huge EU economic might to Russian military might, you get something that is very viable indeed.
I haven’t been more upbeat geopolitically than I am today, coming from a “depression” in the early 2000s. Everything is turning for the better.
China and PBM are going to be the carrying pillars of the coming multi-polar world order, replacing US hegemony dreams. The Chinese know what is coming, geopolitically:
https://documents1940.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/iron-silk-road.jpg?w=1100&h=710
(Chinese map).
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:01 am
Perhaps Antius should worry more about the UK falling apart than the EU:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-scotland/uks-labour-not-ruling-out-another-scottish-independence-vote-idUSKBN1O6180
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-independence-better-than-brexit-htt8lbwvc
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/theresa-may-accidentally-helps-scottish-independence-cause-tommy-sheppard-1-4839819
http://www.scotlandsindependencereferendumparty.scot/snp-should-offer-to-back-mays-british-brexit-in-return-for-westminsters-permission-to-hold-second-scottish-independence-referendum
http://www.scotlandsindependencereferendumparty.scot/majority-of-scots-support-independence-from-uk-as-brexit-britain-prepares-for-bourach-day-on-29-march-2019
Not everybody is Britain is keen on a low-tax “Singapore look-a-like”.
Scotland, that’s 1/3 of the UK (main island). Scots maybe be (economic) leftists, but they are still 98% Scottish. Yummie!
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:09 am
If Britain withdraws from the EU without a deal, that would create the pretext for Scotland to do the same regarding London, without the necessity of a referendum. Certainly if economic disaster hits the British isles.
Scotland lost its many centuries of independence thanks to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
Verify that Scotland was independent between 400-1700:
https://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/index.html
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:20 am
Thanks Antius for putting the out of control nederlander in his place. He is so wound tight he is ready to blow a rod. The harder he tries to force reality into his fantasy the more desperate he becomes.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:30 am
Thanks Antius for putting the out of control nederlander in his place.
Um, I wrote three posts since Antius (tried to) put me down.
But anyway, congratulations with your new geopolitical buddy Antius, Davy boy. You can have Britain and no doubt turn the place irrevocably into a multicult paradise. We all know you can, from (bitter) experience.
Furthermore, he drinks coffee from Wedgwood, just that you know. And please no chlorine-washed chicken or milk-with-puss. Britain still has some standards left, you know, from their time they were member of Europe.
#CoolBrittania
The days that are no more.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:35 am
150 British universities p*ssing in their pants for a no-deal Brexit:
https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/news/Pages/University-leaders-warn-against-No-Deal-as-vital-research-comes-under-threat.aspx
#ReturnOfShabbyArthurScargillBritain.
Fortunately the US is going to foot the bill instead, no doubt.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:47 am
The “1939 feeling” popping up in Europe:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6557881/Up-150-lorries-drive-Manston-Airport-Dover-rush-hour.html
“Ministers plan for a ‘practice traffic jam’ to prepare for no deal Brexit: Up to 150 lorries will be sent from Manston Airport to Dover during Monday’s rush hour in last minute test”
Life is getting interesting again! Drama! Heroism! Major geopolitical upheaval! Everything in flux!
Seriously, Europe should simply ignore the UK and its imperial offshoots CAN/AUS/NZ and concentrate on Heartland USA. There are still folks in large numbers there who value living European (“white”) lives. Draw them into Eurosphere and the Anglo-Zionist problem is solved once and for all.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6556991/EU-offer-warm-words-Irish-border-backstop-Commons-Brexit-showdown.html
“Operation Fig Leaf: EU ‘will offer May warm words on Irish border backstop before Commons Brexit showdown’ – amid claims the PM will make MPs vote AGAIN if they block her deal”
Vote until they vote right, that’s the spirit. Or, as they used to say in the USSR and valiant Anglo ally of former fame: “you can always discipline them”.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:49 am
Sounds like another Y2K neder. You will be so disappointed
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 9:59 am
CHEESE IS CHEESE latest
Can’t say that:
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/gmb-union-expels-antisemitic-antisemitism-peter-gregson-ihra-definition-1.477854
“GMB union expels official who claimed ‘Israel exaggerates the Holocaust for political ends'”
GMB is a British trade union.
Come on Davy, in action. Yet another blatant anti-American attack against one of the pillars of US power. Can’t have that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuRJAVCi5vs
Antius on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:00 am
“Perhaps Antius should worry more about the UK falling apart than the EU”
It could happen, though it is not imminently probable.
I am quite sure that my worrying about it will change nothing. The world does not care what I or anyone else happens to want.
Duncan Idaho on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:07 am
California has a larger GNP than the UK.
Quaint, fading country, that has never recovered from Thatcher giving away everything to the elite, among other things.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:07 am
Neder, millions of Jews were killed by Nazi’s. I could give a shit how. You are a disgusting person to deny this. I don’t care about gas chambers. They were methodically reduced to animals and murdered. You are a lie with a big L.
Antius on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:12 am
“If Britain withdraws from the EU without a deal, that would create the pretext for Scotland to do the same regarding London, without the necessity of a referendum. Certainly if economic disaster hits the British isles.”
It doesn’t work like that. The UK parliament has to approve an independence referendum call and are unlikely to do so. The agreement was that such a referendum could take place no more than once every generation. God knows what the world will be like by then.
Economic disaster will hit the British Isles. But it will have little to do with Brexit. The entire world now has debt-GDP ratio 220%. Over the past decade, the anaemic economic growth achieved by European countries has occurred due to huge Eurozone monetary inflation; effectively repeating what the US fed did.
We are now heading into another great recession, probably this year, about 4 times worse than the 2008-2009 recession, as debt liabilities unwind. This time, there are likely to be currency crises and sovereign debt crises. Britain is in a poor position, with huge financial liabilities. Scotland has the largest budget deficit of all UK regions. All of this deterioration happened whilst we were fully fledged members of the EU.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:20 am
I am quite sure that my worrying about it will change nothing. The world does not care what I or anyone else happens to want.
Fair enough.
Neder, millions of Jews were killed by Nazi’s.
US propaganda. Give me a name and proof of a single….
You won’t, you can’t. Time to shit on Europe as you please is over. YOU were what you have always accused the Germans off: intentional mass murderers and conquerors and world empire builders, until 2016.
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/bullitt-reveals-in-april-1939-that-war-has-been-decided-upon/
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/chamberlain-and-the-forrestal-diaries/
And now it is game over. You are going to fall apart like the USSR fell apart, albeit probably in less than 15 pieces. It’s the best thing that can happen to European Americans. It’s for your own good.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:30 am
US propaganda. Give me a name and proof of a single….
give me names of THE OTHER 60MIL you numbnut. You friggin name shit just shows how friggin stupid you are. Science and history are on my side LIAR
Antius on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:35 am
“YOU were what you have always accused the Germans off: intentional mass murderers and conquerors and world empire builders, until 2016.”
Can’t argue with that. They deployed nuclear weapons against civilian targets, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people. That sounds like a holocaust to me.
The main difference would appear to be that the US holocaust was deployed by (or on behalf of) the Jews, whereas the German one was deployed against them. Hence the German version is not ‘kosher’.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:43 am
give me names of THE OTHER 60MIL, Clogmeister, sir.
Asking for 60 million names is unreasonable. I wasn’t asking for 4-6 million names, just one, which you can’t provide, no surprises here.
I have no interest in any of these tens of millions of names who died in WW2, a war the US maneuvered Europe into…
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
…for the single purpose to set up that kosher-run US empire, that is now about to get the USSR-1991 treatment, not a minute too early.
It is just that you and your owner mobster keep on wining about these Jews. Not that you both give a f* about them, only about the ability the keep us Europeans under the US-imposed guilt yoke.
Outcast_Searcher on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:48 am
Generally about right. But global petrochemical demand isn’t going away, even if the world went to zero oil for transport and heating.
So I agree on the idea that global oil demand will peak in perhaps a couple decades or so.
However, oil, in quantity, will be “around” for MANY decades to come, unless some truly major shift in technology and alternatives limits the need for all petro-chemicals, which seems a big stretch.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 10:49 am
I am asking you for names of Jews not killed nederliar. Numbnut. How about some names of Poles or Gypsies while you are at it. Don’t forget Russians. Your name game is lame.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 11:32 am
I am asking you for names of Jews not killed Clogmeister, sir.
OK.
How about Anne Frank, the icon of the holotale? She was transported to the Schwitz, but when the Soviets were advancing she was left the choice to either join the Germans westwards or wait for the Soviets to be “liberated”. She joined the Germans. I would have done that as well if I had been a young girl. Finally she died in Bergen-Belsen, from typhus. Not from Germans. In fact, a good Jewish lawyer, provided he is paid enough, could even make the case that, indirectly, Anne Frank was killed by the Allies, not the Germans. Since the Allies had a policy of killing as many civilians as possible, to break civilian morale.
I have always wondered if it was wise to make a girl the icon of the holotale, who hadn’t died in a gas chamber. But perhaps the Allies couldn’t find somebody who died in a gaschamber and additionally had written a nice diary to boot. We have to give the Allies some slack here. Perhaps they couldn’t even find somebody who had died in a gaschamber at all, diary or not.
Another Jew not killed by the Germans was the father of Anne frank. He survived during the last weeks of the war in a hospital, where German doctors were fighting for his life.
For the rest, have a look at this picture:
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/laughing-at-auschwitz-1942/
Looking at these people and their aura, I find it impossible to match them with the deeds the Allies attributed to them after the war.
And again, a trial NOT proceeded by independent judges, is no trial worth that name.
The holotale, this is it, established by the truly independent organisation the Red Cross:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9c6a8209d298b8d5c34ad6f521d5b635.webp
Plus 100,000 or more executed Jewish bolshevik commissars in the East (nobody took prisoners there in that hellhole).
This is it. Perhaps half a million. As Jean-Marie le Pen has put it: a footnote of history.
Come back to me if you have something to say of substance, rather than rehashing your media.
You won’t.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 11:43 am
here are some names nedernazi
The names of the Holocaust victims that appear on this list were taken from Pages of Testimony submitted to Yad Vashem
https://tinyurl.com/yanqqvrz
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 12:01 pm
Sorry everyone. Nothing makes me go more crazier then the nazis.
THERE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 12:11 pm
The names of the Holocaust victims that appear on this list were taken from Pages of Testimony submitted to Yad Vashem
Again, you are evading the real question, although you are probably dumb enough not to understand the question in the first place. Otherwise you wouldn’t be a goat-farmer in the first place.
Again, this time slowly… give me a single name and PROOF that that person was gassed in a gaschamber. Got it?
What you give me is a list from an open database, where survivors can add names of those they are MISSING.
I can make a list of missing classmates from primary school, of whom I have not the faintest idea of where they are.
According to davy, they must have been gassed, no other explanation is possible.
Again, davy doesn’t give a f* about these jews, he repeated confided that he doesn’t like jews in general.
But what he DOES like is painting the Germans in the bleakest light possible, so he has his justification to add Germany and the rest of Europe to that sorry kosher multicult empire of his, aka the sarcophagus of European civilization.
Davy’s motivations are as transparent as glass.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 12:35 pm
CLogg
Davy just gave you over eighty pages of names and locations..You are a old stubborn paranoid loon..
Case dismissed..
And clogg what about when Hitler invade Holland and took away all of your peoples food? Its caused a famine called ‘The dutch hunger event”..The nazis starved your own people..And now you praise them? You should be hung from a lamp post for treason..
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 12:36 pm
Harsh Nazi Parenting Guidelines May Still Affect German Children of Today
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/harsh-nazi-parenting-guidelines-may-still-affect-german-children-of-today1/
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 12:48 pm
Davy just gave you over eighty pages of names and locations
I just gave him the reasons why this doesn’t count as proof that these missing people were gassed.
And clogg what about when Hitler invade Holland and took away all of your peoples food? Its caused a famine called ‘The dutch hunger event”..The nazis starved your own people..And now you praise them?
I never heard my mother, who lived as a young girl in Amsterdam in 1944, saying that “the Germans were taking food”. There was none. The Germans did allow for some Swedish bread dropping from the air and didn’t confiscate that.
Holland in fact unleashed WW2 for real in that the Dutch government had given in to pressure from Churchill to abandon neutrality and allow overpass to British and French troops, so they could attack the Ruhr-area.
Here the Jewish professor Lou de Jong, who was tasked by the Dutch government after the war to write the history of WW2. There is no person who knows more about Holland and WW2 than him. You can download all his 30+ thick tomes as pdf here:
https://www.niod.nl/nl/download
Prof Lou de Jong:
https://historiek.net/wp-content/uploads-phistor1/2014/04/Loe-de-Jong-met-de-complete-serie-Het-Koninkrijk.jpg
And what did de Jong say, 25 years after the war?
“Holland wasn’t that neutral:”
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/prof-de-jong-holland-wasnt-neutral/
Details here:
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/march-20-1940-dutch-pm-visits-london/
WW2 for Dummies here:
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/10/13/ww2-for-dummies/
(especially recommended for davy and mobster)
Peckerhead JuanP on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 1:01 pm
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 12:01 pm
Sorry everyone. Nothing makes me go more crazier then the nazis. THERE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 1:04 pm
“Again, this time slowly… give me a single name and PROOF that that person was gassed in a gaschamber. Got it?”
Dumbfuck, you don’t make the rules. I gave you names of Jews murdered by the Nazis. I already told you I could give a shit about gas chambers. Disgusting people like you argue over murder as if that makes a certain type of murder more or less legitimate. I gave you names Nazi noe eat your hat.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 2:59 pm
Clogg
Why won’t you ask a third party historian then?
Put up or shut up!
You wont because you are a dishonest and would exposed as the nutter you are..
Dutch famine of 1944–45
Dutch children eating soup during the famine of 1944–45
Two Dutch women carrying food during the famine period
The Dutch famine of 1944–45, known in the Netherlands as the Hongerwinter (literal translation: hunger winter), was a famine that took place in the German-occupied Netherlands, especially in the densely populated western provinces north of the great rivers, during the winter of 1944–45, near the end of World War II. A German blockade cut off food and fuel shipments from farm towns. Some 4.5 million were affected and survived because of soup kitchens. As many as 22,000 may have died because of the famine;[1] one author estimated 18,000.[2] Loe de Jong (1914–2005), author of The Kingdom of the Netherlands During World War II, estimated at least 22,000 deaths.[3] Most of the victims were reported to be elderly men.[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944%E2%80%9345
The Nazis starved millions of your people and killed 22k of them by brutal starvation..
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:01 pm
“you don’t make the rules. I gave you names of Jews murdered by the Nazis”
No you didn’t. You gave me names of MISSING people.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:01 pm
Notice the arrogance of Clogg blog..
Fracking for amateurs..
WW2 history for dummies..
He thinks is onto something lol
As Einstein always said ‘More the ego lesser the knowledge”
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:11 pm
Rep. Tlaib calls Trump ‘Motherf*****’ says he will be impeached
https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/01/rep-tlaib-calls-trump-motherf-says-he-will-be-impeached.html?utm_campaign=mlivedotcom_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2E6oMPcVoMDZH0GWTYPpMZE6PFad_TrHC0J8dB4TJ2f2lvqLcmBCryXME
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:13 pm
Great argument clogg..They didn’t in an oven they just disappeared?
So based on cloggs logic, if someone kills me and buries my body in the woods which is never found..I didn’t actually die..I just disappeared…
You can’t you make this stuff up..Such a stupid moron..We have reached peak clogg
LMFAO!
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:16 pm
Clog
Those names were of people executed..You are delusional nutter who uses make believe..And notice how it blends into renewable energy beliefs as well? Wish thinking and make believe are Clogg only antidote to nihilism..
Vaginahead Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 3:56 pm
Peckerhead JuanP on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 1:01 pm
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 4:01 pm
“Those names were of people executed.”
We executed lots of people, too, Slob.
Murder is murder. Disgusting people like you argue over murder as if that makes a certain type of murder more or less legitimate.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 4:03 pm
“Those names were of people executed.”
No, just names, entered by relatives after the war.
Missing.
Cloggie on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 4:06 pm
“Why won’t you ask a third party historian then?”
No, nobody knows better than me. I’m even two years ahead of David Irving, regarding the big picture.
Davy on Fri, 4th Jan 2019 4:07 pm
“Again, this time slowly… give me a single name and PROOF that that person was gassed in a gaschamber.”
Sorry Sir Cloggie, I can’t, because no such proof exists.
Looks like you won another debate again my friend.