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What If Preventing Collapse Isn’t Profitable?

What If Preventing Collapse Isn’t Profitable? thumbnail

The real downside of the green-profit narrative has been that it created the assumption in many people’s minds that the solution to climate change and other environmental dilemmas is technical, and that policy makers and industrialists will implement it for us, so that the way we live doesn’t need to change in any fundamental way. That’s never been true.

The notion that modern industrial civilization is fundamentally unsustainable and is therefore likely to collapse at some point is not a new one. Even before the Limits to Growth report of 1972, many ecologists were concerned that our continual expansion of population and consumption, based on the ever-increasing rate at which we burn finite supplies of fossil fuels, would eventually lead to crises of resource depletion and pollution (including climate change) as well as catastrophic loss of wild nature. Dystopian outcomes would inevitably follow.

This apprehension led environmentalists to strategize ways to avert collapse. The obvious solution was, in large measure, to persuade policy makers to curtail growth in population and consumption, while mandating a phase-out of fossil fuels. But convincing political and business leaders to do these things proved difficult-to-impossible.

It’s time to ask: is there something fundamentally wrong with the eco-opportunity message?”

The folks in charge used the following arguments to justify their refusal to act.

Population Growth: The choice of whether or not to reproduce is a basic human right, said the authorities. Seeking to interfere with that right also violates religious freedoms. Besides, population growth helps economic growth (see “Economic Growth,” below).

Economic Growth: Policy makers insisted that we need a bigger economy, not a smaller one, to pay for environmental cleanup, more of which seems to be required all the time. Also, we need growth in order to pay back public and private debt, which has ballooned in recent years due to the expectation of future profits and tax revenues. Further, we must raise the living standards of people in poor countries, and poor people in rich countries, and the only way to do that is to expand trade and other economic activity.

Fossil Fuels: Yes, of course burning oil, coal, and natural gas is problematic in the long run, political and business leaders admitted. But until a cheaper energy source comes along, fossil fuels are necessary for economic growth (see “Economic Growth,” above).

Together, these arguments were impenetrable—not because there weren’t any better counterarguments, but because they reflected the short-term imperatives of the economic system itself. It’s a system, after all, that has to keep moving and growing to survive. So, for environmentalists, it was back to the drawing board.

After strategizing feverishly, they came up with what seemed like a winning formula. What if there could be “clean” energy sources cheaper than fossil fuels, and what if economic growth could be achieved without more resource extraction and waste dumping? In short, what if industry could profit by saving the planet? If this really turned out to be the case, two of the basic ecological contradictions of modern society (increasing rates of resource depletion and pollution) would disappear painlessly. Meanwhile, we could simply ignore the population issue and hope that it somehow takes care of itself as economic growth makes people more affluent and therefore likely to have fewer kids. Everybody wins!

And so, starting in the 1980s, big environmental organizations relied to an ever-greater extent on partnering with corporations and on hopes for technological solutions to the growth dilemma. Climate change would be defeated through the development of renewable energy. The looming problem of resource depletion would vanish as a result of more efficiency and recycling. Pollution would disappear with the proliferation of harmless, biodegradable, recyclable materials. Building solar panels, manufacturing “green” products, and recycling old stuff would be profitable and would create jobs. Economic growth would be decoupled from environmental harms of all kinds. Our collective human economic metabolism would continue to increase in scale, but in ways that didn’t threaten wildlife or future generations of humans. Problems solved!

To be fair, environmentalists have also lobbied for carbon taxes, various regulations, and government investment to jumpstart the shift to alternative technologies, and some environmentalists never got on board with the pro-growth propaganda. But usually the promise was front and center: with just an initial nudge, planet-saving would soon become a self-funding growth activity for industry.

And here we are today. The opportunities for green growth have snowballed to the point where they are now seemingly endless. New machines have been invented to suck carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere; these machines are expensive, and enormous numbers of them will be needed to make much of a difference with regard to climate change, so the profit potential is mind-numbing! Engineers have found ways of combining captured CO2 with hydrogen released from water by the application of electricity; the results are synthetic fuels that could replace oil and natural gas in transportation and industry. Those “synfuels” promise to be expensive to produce, so get ready for a torrent of new commerce as fuel users gear up to pay for them! The same goes for electric cars, as hundreds of new models move from drawing boards to showrooms! Meanwhile, solar panels and wind turbines are getting cheaper, so there’s little to prevent renewable energy from crushing the fossil fuel industry once and for all! Make way for green profits and jobs galore!

And yet, during the last few decades, as all these supposedly profitable green solutions have sprouted, our actual environmental problems have gotten worse. The Earth has warmed by more than one degree Celsius above its temperature fifty years ago. Forests are burning as never before. Storms are becoming mega-storms. And the number of climate refugees is climbing fast. Two-thirds of all wild animals have disappeared in this last half-century. The oceans appear to be dying from acidification, overfishing, and giant gyres of plastic pollution. Meanwhile, human population has doubled, from 4 billion in 1974 to nearly 8 billion today.

What’s the hitch? Have environmentalists simply not tried hard enough to sell their no-pain marketing plan? Has insufficient government investment and regulation prevented the big green profit machine from revving up to speed? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the eco-opportunity message?

It’s easy to make the case that government has dragged its feet on regulations and incentives. But if green alternatives are really so profitable, why the reluctance to wholeheartedly support them? Yes, fossil fuel companies have deliberately thrown tacks in the roadway, questioning climate science while hoovering up government subsidies, and they have spent vast amounts both to lobby and contribute to the campaigns of elected leaders. But surely that’s not the only impediment.

Consider renewable energy. Costs for solar panels and wind turbines have continually fallen, so these alternative energy sources should be Exhibit A for the green-growth argument. Unfortunately, however, the difficulties of a complete transition from fossil fuels to renewables cannot be boiled down to a question of cost per unit of electricity produced by solar versus coal. Renewables and fossil fuels are very different sources of energy, requiring different systems to manage and use them. Therefore, the transition will require a great deal of investment in infrastructure beyond panels and turbines themselves.

The intermittency of sunshine and wind imposes the need for energy storage technologies, for much greater redundancy of energy sources, for more robust transmission grids, and for infrastructure to turn electricity into fuels for technologies that will be hard to electrify (such as long-distance airplanes, big farm machinery, and high-heat industrial processes like cement making). All of these will be costly.

Take just the last of these—synfuels, of which considerable quantities may be needed, depending on how much aviation, shipping, intensive farming, and high-heat industry we want to maintain. We can make synfuels from free sunlight and wind, and CO2 captured from the air. It would seem to be a no-brainer. But it turns out that the process is inefficient and expensive compared to doing the same work with oil or natural gas. While sunlight and wind are free, the machines we use to capture energy from them are not; they are built from nonrenewable materials, just like oil derricks and gas pipelines. Fossil fuels are, in a sense, free too. Sure, they need extraction, refining, transport, and burning, but nature has already done the work of concentrating and transforming millions of years’ worth of ancient sunlight into substances that are relatively easy to store, transport, and use. Until these fuels start to get really scarce (which may happen sooner than a lot of people assume), fossil fuels will therefore continue to be cheaper, in many applications, than renewables.

 

Further, we already have the infrastructure required for finding, extracting, transporting, and using fossil fuels, whereas the production of synfuels would require a great deal of new infrastructure—so much that it would amount to a replacement for much of our existing fossil fuel industry, which took many decades to build.

So, even if solar panels and wind turbines continue getting cheaper, there will still be systemic technological and economic hurdles—in addition to any political foot-dragging—hindering a full transition.

“Resource depletion is always our grandchildren’s problem, never ours. And our grandchildren have no seat at the table.”

Ugh. That was supposed to be the cheap and easy part of the green-growth solution. Unfortunately, there are even more difficulties to be faced in attempting to maintain a growing economy and an expanding population while dramatically reducing environmental harms.

Some of those problems are summed up in the word externality. In economics lingo, an externality is the impact of an economic transaction that is not priced into that transaction. No one sets out to produce externalities, in the sense that no one pollutes just for the sake of polluting. Pollution is a byproduct of doing business, and industry typically assumes that society as a whole will either learn to live with the mess or pay to clean it up. Only rarely does industry foot the bill (that’s what might be called internalizing the externality). Most of the time, industry profits, while nature bleeds and society pays.

Perhaps you’ve read reports that estimate the future costs of climate change. The numbers are staggering. Surely the prospect of such unprecedented financial losses over the coming decades will motivate today’s industrialists to invest in green alternatives! Not necessarily. Publicly held corporations are required by law to make decisions that result in the highest value to their shareholders, not society as a whole. Next quarter’s profits are therefore all-important. If climate change imposes unbearable costs on society at some point down the line, that’s society’s burden.

Another set of problems issues from our laws regarding private property. If a corporation buys land that happens to contain a major coal deposit, the corporation owns that coal and can mine and sell it. (In some cases, corporations can even buy rights to resources below land owned by others.) But no business made the coal, or the soil above it. Industrialists simply claim ownership by paying a fraction of real value, and then profit from the extraction of whatever valuable minerals may exist. Resource depletion is always our grandchildren’s problem, never ours. And our grandchildren have no seat at the table.

In other words, whether the problem is related to pollution or depletion, the incentives and advantages are all on the side of industry and growth, never nature and conservation, unless government steps in with a regulation or two.

Yes, there are occasional profits to be made from green energy and products. For example, companies sometimes earn profits by making and selling solar panels, electric bikes, biodegradable laundry detergent, and hemp T-shirts (note: I’m setting aside, for now, the full life-cycle ecological footprints of these products when I characterize them as “green”). But until the fundamental incentives and legal structures that support our current industrial growth economy are overhauled, the lion’s share of profits will continue to accrue to industries that extract and pollute. The reason these industries extract and pollute is that most economic activity is directed toward consumption, and most consumption inevitably depletes resources and pollutes. That’s why there’s been no overall shift in society’s direction.

So, what would actually be required to stop the bleeding?

First, we would have to abolish externalities. That would mean requiring industrialists to pay all the real costs of their activities—from mine to landfill. No more free pollution, including the free dumping of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

Then we would have to change laws related to the ownership of land. As American economist Henry George proposed back in the 1870s, and as Native Americans have always believed, land should be the common property of all people, and other species should have the right to habitat and survival. Workers should own the products of their labor, but no one should unilaterally own our common inheritance of nature’s bounty.

If we did these two things, most profits would disappear. Yes, people could still exchange products and services, but windfalls from resource extraction and from industrial processes that entail waste dumping would vanish. Therefore, policy makers would have to reorganize political and economic systems so that profit was no longer as important; instead, the well-being of people and planet would be paramount.

Without industrial-scale profits, an enormous amount of debt would come due that could not be repaid with interest. In effect, that would mean the disappearance of mountains of money. Again, policy makers would have to retool the political-economic system so that money and debt play less of a role in people’s daily lives.

There is a third and final realm in which action would be necessary. We would need to take the population question seriously. If population is growing, a shrinking economy becomes an ever-greater burden on each individual. But if population levels are declining, then economic degrowth imposes a smaller per-capita toll, and quality of life could improve as human numbers decline to a sustainable level.

The eventual result of taking these collective actions would likely be a happier society, but a smaller and slower one. Many people already yearn for a slower and happier way of life, and, ironically, under current industrial conditions they are forced to pay extra for simple, healthy food, clean air, and opportunities to feel creative and genuinely useful. The simplicity movement, the permaculture movement, the self-sufficiency movement, the maker movement, the tiny house movement, the sharing economy, and the back-to-the-land movement have all sought to cultivate and channel the understandable human urge to regain personal autonomy, re-weave social relationships, and reconnect with nature. There is advantage to be had in ending our assault on the planet; just not profit in the financial sense.

You see, the real downside of the green-profit narrative has been that it created the assumption in many people’s minds that the solution to climate change and other environmental dilemmas is technical, and that policy makers and industrialists will implement it for us, so that the way we live doesn’t need to change in any fundamental way. That’s never been true. The sooner we get that through our heads, the more time we will have to get used to living happily within limits—without nature imposing those limits in ways that aren’t so pleasant.

by
common dreams


63 Comments on "What If Preventing Collapse Isn’t Profitable?"

  1. I used to be a sinophobe but the on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 8:52 am 

    On This Day…
    Sep 26, 2014: Ghazni, Afghanistan
    Women and children are among those beheaded: 100 Killed

  2. Zeke Putnam on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 9:53 am 

    I think the first comment says it all “lets talk about something else”.

  3. JuanP on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 12:36 pm 

    Mak, be careful over there I would not want anything to happen to my best friend!

    Duterte tightens grip as the Philippines falls apart

    MANILA – Facing an acute economic crisis, a persistent Covid-19 outbreak and declining popularity, Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has fittingly extended a state of national calamity for another year. While the move will allow the government to adopt emergency measures to stabilize food and basic good prices, as well as deploy Quick Response Funds for especially pressing pandemic needs, it also allows the authoritarian leader to tighten his grip on the country ahead of 2022 presidential elections…Meanwhile, the Filipino leader has to grapple with the country’s worst economic crisis in a generation, much of it his own making. In its latest report, the Asian Development Bank forecast a 7.3% contraction for the Philippines, among the worst in Asia. Only Thailand, which posted a laggard 2.4 percent growth last year, is expected to fare worse with an 8% contraction this year…The ADB’s Philippine projection is almost twice as worse its June forecast of a 3.8% contraction, a reflection of the economy’s 16.5% shrinkage in the second quarter. It also marks a sharp reversal from the country’s close to 6% growth posted in 2019, with the nation bracing for the worst contraction in its post-World War II history. That will be compounded by declining foreign remittances, usually a key engine for domestic consumption and local growth. The government has said some 600,000 overseas workers had been repatriated as of mid-August, adding to the rising pool of the unemployed.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/09/duterte-tightens-grip-as-the-philippines-falls-apart/

  4. supertard madkat please be careful there are active muzz in phils if not that then duterte goons looking for u on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 1:39 pm 

    On This Day…
    Sep 26, 2014: Ghazni, Afghanistan
    Women and children are among those beheaded: 100 Killed

  5. penury on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 2:41 pm 

    To dream the impossible dream. Our song has ended, only the melody lives on.

  6. More Davyskum sock puppetry ID theft and lunacy on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 3:31 pm 

    Another ID theft from the Bored Lunatic dayvyskum

    davyskum on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 12:36 pm

    Mak, be careful over there…..

  7. Theedrich on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 3:55 pm 

    The U.S. is dissolving in a sea of Dem hate. On Friday, 2020 Sep 25, the corpse of a female legalist was being used in a marionette show in the Capitol to ridicule what was left of Whiteland.  Among other Democrat-concocted emetics and in a cringeworthy display of Marxist make-believe, the House Speaker, self-important Pelosi, introduced the rotting body to a flock of Democrat vultures, after which a repulsive Negress croaked out a dissonant dirge for the assembled fakers to a sickening tune accompanied by some mournful plunks on a piano.  The tedious play-act also included a Jewess rabbi warbling some unintelligible burps in a Heeb language, next emitting some meaningless drivel in English praising the decaying remnant in the coffin.  Nausea to the Nth degree.  Followed by yet another discordant Coon spiritual.

    Meanwhile Democrat hatemongers were tearing up American cities.  And the vocal diarrhea issuing from the Leftist politicians formed an appropriate preface to Yankeeland’s forthcoming downslide to the grave.

    Unfortunately, no Democrat rioters were allowed in to show their respects to the putrefying carrion.  A shame.  They could have spray-painted the casket with anti-Trump graffiti.

    No matter.  The billionaire Chosenites who run the TV propaganda mills have now convinced the proletariat that White genosuicide and Communism run by them is the way to the mullato workers’ paradise.

  8. for some of the smart whiteys supertards who reject the invisible (((supremetard)))'s coq they are too eager to chomp on muzzie coq and worship the invisible convict-19 on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 3:58 pm 

    Zoom cancels jihad terrorist Leila Khaled’s webinar at San Francisco State University

  9. REAL Green on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:06 pm 

    How come y’all is real smart an me n Davy and all are socks is REAL Dumb like?

  10. in harvester nation of china this muzz terrarist Leila Khaled woudnt exist on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:08 pm 

    but in america we have muzz FGM NASTY in congress

  11. supreme goat wrote this which means paper shopping bag over head to hide identify while shopping for industrial ag food and labeling it dirty at the same time on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:14 pm 

    The reason for this is the nature of the carbon trap and path dependencies our human system is in. Keep in mind I am using the dirty status quo to green up my little place and small group of people. I am not TRUE Green but instead REAL Green which is realistic and relative. In the big picture I am just a small micro clime.

  12. zero juan on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:17 pm 

    An afternoon with weirdo juanP:

    supreme goat wrote this which means paper shopping bag over head to hide identify while shopping for industrial ag food and labeling it dirty at the same time said The reason for this is the nature of the carbon tr…

    in harvester nation of china this muzz terrarist Leila Khaled woudnt exist said but in america we have muzz FGM NASTY in congress

    REAL Green said How come y’all is real smart an me n Davy and all…

    for some of the smart whiteys supertards who reject the invisible (((supremetard)))’s coq they are too eager to chomp on muzzie coq and worship the invisible convict-19 said Zoom cancels jihad terrorist Leila Khaled’s webina…

    More Davyskum sock puppetry ID theft and lunacy said Another ID theft from the Bored Lunatic dayvyskum…

    penury said To dream the impossible dream. Our song has ended,…

    this is happening in america because the miseducation of uncle sam of all the wisdom and infinite ability to dispense proper education on uncle sam supertard bochen777 taught this – sex with white women said meanwhile this is going on in america. this stuff…

    this is happening in america because uncle sam never received a lesson from supertard bochen777 all he taught was sex with white women said What role did the growing Islamization of Basking…

    Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them,” one verse coolly mentioned said uncle sam is a lover not a fighter so why supertar…

    one juan said http://dreadytofatroptsdj6io7l3xptbet6onoyno2yv7ji

    supertard madkat please be careful there are active muzz in phils if not that then duterte goons looking for u said On This Day… Sep 26, 2014: Ghazni, Afghanistan Wom…

  13. Abraham van Helsing on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:17 pm 

    The RGB pictures in rgb:

    https://youtu.be/TE-hIjySjOk

    In memory of her, a solumn musical celebration to honor this great woman:

    https://youtu.be/3GwjfUFyY6M

  14. Davy on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:31 pm 

    Woof woof

  15. JuanP on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:33 pm 

    Go Trump! Anyone but Hillary! My wife and I are considering volunteering for the Trump campaign to fight the narcissistic, psychopathic bitch. I think I could use my antisocial, psychopathic, sociopathic skills to convince people to vote for Trump. I can be very convincing when I want and I am excellent at manipulating people.

  16. JuanP on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:35 pm 

    I did therapy for over a decade and most of it was a waste, but I had one therapist for a year who understood my issues and that helped, though I am still thoroughly screwed up.

  17. Davy on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:36 pm 

    LIAR juanPPee. You only voted for Trump Cus you wanted our country to collapse.

  18. REAL Green on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 4:55 pm 

    Just Cus you can afford to see the docter juanPPee. An me n Davy cant. Dont make you better then us.

    cuntface

  19. Davy on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 5:58 pm 

    I never did voluntary therapy even once in my miserable life and most of it was a waste, but I had one therapist for a year while I was on probation who understood my issues, mostly that I was an insufferable asshole, and that helped a little, though I am still thoroughly screwed up.

  20. Davy on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 6:41 pm 

    cuntface is a Real BAD cussin wurd REAL Green.

  21. dear supertard therapy is so 80s we have shots for ur mental conditions now on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 6:59 pm 

    I plan to take 40 muzz-19 shots to correct my head

    i’ll order the lot with maximum semen personally added by droptout-19

  22. zero juan on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 7:13 pm 

    weirdo juan:

    dear supertard therapy is so 80s we have shots for ur mental conditions now said I plan to take 40 muzz-19 shots to correct my head…

    Davy said cuntface is a Real BAD cussin wurd REAL Green.

    Davy said I never did voluntary therapy even once in my mise…

    Muslim Sues Employer for NOT Offering Alcohol as Gift… said muzz

    “We need to stick together, we need to defeat them, we need to take a lot of casualties, a lot of numbers,” Molina allegedly wrote in a secretive chat group where FBI investigators said they pledged their loyalty to ISIS. said NYC harvesting soon?

    Paris Stabbing Attack Confirmed as Islamic Terror: 7 Arrested… said harvesting soon?

    Today in history, on September 25, 1396, a major military encounter with Islam that demonstrated just how disunited Christendom had become took place said muzz consumes the largest amount of animal protein…

    REAL Green said Just Cus you can afford to see the docter juanPPee…

    Davy said LIAR juanPPee. You only voted for Trump Cus you wa…

  23. JuanP on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 7:26 pm 

    Mak, pack your bags and come home. We miss you.

    Duterte tightens grip as the Philippines falls apart

    MANILA – Facing an acute economic crisis, a persistent Covid-19 outbreak and declining popularity, Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has fittingly extended a state of national calamity for another year. While the move will allow the government to adopt emergency measures to stabilize food and basic good prices, as well as deploy Quick Response Funds for especially pressing pandemic needs, it also allows the authoritarian leader to tighten his grip on the country ahead of 2022 presidential elections…Meanwhile, the Filipino leader has to grapple with the country’s worst economic crisis in a generation, much of it his own making. In its latest report, the Asian Development Bank forecast a 7.3% contraction for the Philippines, among the worst in Asia. Only Thailand, which posted a laggard 2.4 percent growth last year, is expected to fare worse with an 8% contraction this year…The ADB’s Philippine projection is almost twice as worse its June forecast of a 3.8% contraction, a reflection of the economy’s 16.5% shrinkage in the second quarter. It also marks a sharp reversal from the country’s close to 6% growth posted in 2019, with the nation bracing for the worst contraction in its post-World War II history. That will be compounded by declining foreign remittances, usually a key engine for domestic consumption and local growth. The government has said some 600,000 overseas workers had been repatriated as of mid-August, adding to the rising pool of the unemployed.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/09/duterte-tightens-grip-as-the-philippines-falls-apart/

  24. REAL Green on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 7:50 pm 

    Every body no’s were JuanP Davy. Were not foolin any one.

    luantic

  25. Davy on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 7:57 pm 

    Woof woof.

  26. why whitey supertard sharon stone whose IQ is over 150 didnt wear her panties but she insist we all wear face panties on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 8:17 pm 

    why is convict-19 so selective where it attack

    for a bunch of whitey supertards who dont believe an invisible (((supremetard))) they surely believe in invisible convict-19

  27. do u think convict 19 is intelligent it attacks us not ppl like whitey supertard sharon stone on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 8:49 pm 

    She didn’t wear her panties

    But she told us to wear face panties

  28. why whitey supertard dr fautus didn't tell sharon stone to wear panties on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 8:54 pm 

    But face panties for us
    And a fan on our heads

  29. so they capitalized the pedifiler on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 9:07 pm 

    Low English does not do that

    Charlie Hebdo suspect was targeting magazine: Jihadist, 18, said he slashed two journalists with a meat cleaver in Paris because he was angry about Prophet Muhammad cartoons being republished

  30. whitey supertards arrested in Idaho worshipping invisible (((supremetard))) no face panties on Sat, 26th Sep 2020 9:31 pm 

    So just don’t worship one invisible for another in visible convict 19

    Banned.video

  31. so they capitalized the pedifiler Low English does not do that on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 6:23 am 

    LEM low English matter

    Charlie Hebdo suspect was targeting magazine: Jihadist, 18, said he slashed two journalists with a meat cleaver in Paris because he was angry about Prophet Muhammad

  32. zero juan on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 7:23 am 

    weirdo juan is up

    so they capitalized the pedifiler Low English does not do that said LEM low English matter Charlie Hebdo suspect was…

    why whitey supertard sharon stone no wear panties but say we have to wear face panties she is a muzzie lover said Not making sense

  33. JuanP on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 7:26 am 

    My boyfriend and I did therapy for over a decade and most of it was a waste, but I had one therapist for a year who understood my issues and that helped, though I am still thoroughly screwed up.

  34. Davy on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 8:18 am 

    I’ve avoided seeking therapy for over a decade but I had one therapist for a year while I was on probation who understood my issues, mostly that I was an insufferable asshole, and that helped a little, though I am still thoroughly screwed up.

  35. Apneaman on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 8:59 am 

    I have not commented in 3 years much at all but I do check in and read comments. JuanP has ruined this forum for everyone. What a loser!

  36. Fat bastard in the front bar of The Slaughtered Lamb Inn on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:03 am 

    I have explosive liquid covid sharts!
    The end is near!

  37. Lord Buckethead of the real England on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:04 am 

    Fuck it, time to down another pint in the Slaughtered Lamb I say!

  38. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:06 am 

    The sharts can be turned into biofuel! That way North Yorkshire will be carbon neutral! The Slaughtered Lamb will soon be the greenest Inn in Europe!

  39. makati1 on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:07 am 

    Preposterous!
    You are a liar and a cad!

  40. Davy on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:09 am 

    Damn you all to hell and beyond!
    I also have the sharts and toilet paper has nearly run out!

  41. Davy on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:11 am 

    Sorry apeman. Everybody no’s I am JuanP and JuanP is me.

  42. LEM on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 9:36 am 

    My name is Lem. I’m interested in energy since 40yrs ago.

    All of you are great. I’m always learning new things.

  43. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 12:31 pm 

    Switzerland becoming ever more European and rejects populist referendum proposal to halt influx of employees from the European Union, in line with the polls:

    https://nos.nl/artikel/2350018-europees-vrij-verkeer-van-personen-blijft-ook-voor-zwitserland-gelden.html

    Won’t be long and we can welcome a new country to the EU.

  44. LEM on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 1:12 pm 

    Why nobody wants to be LEM’s friend

  45. Hello on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 3:12 pm 

    >>> Switzerland becoming ever more European and rejects populist referendum

    I CRY TEARS OF SADNESS.
    My only condolence is that the people chose their own destiny of doom. That’s a tad better than it being imposed by the EU overlords. At least I can look them in the eye and tell them once they get fucked over three fold. You deserve nothing else.

  46. Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 4:10 pm 

    I CRY TEARS OF SADNESS.
    My only condolence is that the people chose their own destiny of doom. That’s a tad better than it being imposed by the EU overlords. At least I can look them in the eye and tell them once they get fucked over three fold. You deserve nothing else.

    Cheer up, halb so schlimm.

    You can now prepare for a future where you will be a proud member of the “Frugal-15” c.q. Hanseatic League, under the inspiring leadership of the Netherlands, and help defend the interests of the richest countries in Europe:

    https://parisberlinmoscow.wordpress.com/2020/08/10/the-frugal-15-the-growing-influence-of-the-hanseatic-league-2-0-in-the-eu/

    Together we have more economic weight, more people and higher per capita income than Germany.

  47. Ministry of truth on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 4:57 pm 

    Len !,that mask does not match your leather jacket. We have a dress code here at the oil drum,. I mean peakoil.com.

  48. zero juan on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 5:21 pm 

    more weirdo juan:

    Ministry of truth said Len !,that mask does not match your leather jacket…

    print baby print said 2035 they are fucking us in our brains.

    Davy said I was just telling cloggo yesterday that I would v…

    LEM said Why nobody wants to be LEM’s friend

  49. makati1 on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 6:00 pm 

    JuanP, “Duterte tightens grip as the Philippines falls apart” – Asiatimes

    The publication is owned by a Thai, but headquartered in Hong Kong. Writes anti Chinese articles, so seems a little weird. The editor has a Japanese surname, so very very confusing on the authenticity. And who signs the checks? Amerika?

    I live here and follow the local news closely. I do not see anything out of line from Duterte but I do see some of the, educated (brainwashed) in the US, government bots trying to make him look bad.

    Last time I checked his popularity was in the 70+% area. Trump never had that support from the people. Never will.

    https://business.inquirer.net/285855/economic-team-dutertes-pulse-asia-approval-rating-jumped-to-87-in-december

    I’m glad I do not live in the insane Police State Amerika. I made a very good decision when I moved here over 12 years ago. No regrets.

  50. Davy on Sun, 27th Sep 2020 6:30 pm 

    “I’m glad I do not live in the insane Police State Amerika. I made a very good decision when I moved here over 12 years ago. No regrets.”

    I am very happy you are gone Wak, now if we could also get rid of the lunatic illegal, jaunPPee, that would be even better.

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