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The U.S. Faces A Catastrophic Food Supply Crisis In America As Farmers Struggle

The U.S. Faces A Catastrophic Food Supply Crisis In America As Farmers Struggle thumbnail

American farmers are battling several issues when it comes to producing our food.  Regulated low prices, tariffs, and the inability to export have all cut into the salaries of farmers.  They are officially in crisis mode, just like the United States’ food supply.

“The farm economy’s in pretty tough shape,” said John Newton, chief economist at the American Farm Bureau Federation.

“When you look out on the horizon of things to come, you start to see some cracks.”

Average farm income has fallen to near 15-year lows under president Donald Trump’s policies, and in some areas of the country, farm bankruptcies are soaring.  And with slightly higher interest rates, many don’t see borrowing more money as an option.  “A lot of farmers are going to give the president the benefit of the doubt, and have to date. But the longer the trade war goes on, the more that dynamic changes,” said Brian Kuehl, executive director of Farmers for Free Trade, according to Politico.

With no end to the disastrous trade war in sight, many farmers have traveled to Washington to share their plights with the president himself hoping that he’ll end the trade war that’s exacerbating an already precarious food crisis.  Farmers make up a fairly large chunk of president Trump’s base, and an unwillingness to put food production in the United States first could be detrimental for Trump reelection chances in 2020. It could also be the beginning of a catastrophic food shortage.

The Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis warned back in November of rising Chapter 12 bankruptcies used by family farmers to restructure massive amounts of debt. The Fed said that the strain of low commodity prices “is starting to show up not just in bottom-line profitability, but in simple viability.” The increase in bankruptcies was driven by woes in Wisconsin’s dairy sector, which shrunk by about 1,200 operations, or 13 percent, from 2016 to October 2018.

“You’ve had farms that have gone out of business, that have gone bankrupt because of this trade war,” said Kuehl of Farmers for Free Trade.

“There’s a lot of farmers going through tough conversations right now with their lenders.”

And so far, the government’s solution to the problem they created is to give more welfare to farmers, placing the burden on the backs of taxpayers.

As the government continues to pass the burden onto others while destroying the food industry, things could very well reach apocalyptic levels.  Nothing will see this country spiral into complete disarray like a lack of food. Alarmingly, scientists have already said that the global food supply system is broken.

To put it simply, government interference in the agriculture industry is responsible for the food crisis we all are about to face.

SHTFplan.com



150 Comments on "The U.S. Faces A Catastrophic Food Supply Crisis In America As Farmers Struggle"

  1. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:46 am 

    “Delusional Davy “This behavior has gotten too extreme as it is now it will be dealt with.” “And how exactly are you going to deal with it, Davy?”

    Standing up to your shit juanp and not ignoring you as you trample on me. I am practicing self-defense you are prqacticing unprovoked attacks. Ignore me and I will ignore you. If you see an incidence of “your so called” bullying then reference it and it will be dealt with. AND BTW if I am attacked then you acknowledge that and STFU.

  2. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:49 am 

    “No, I mean all the people who have been reading comments here for over five years and remember very well how this situation evolved. I used to contribute here, but I’ve lost interest in doing that because of your abusive behavior and the fact that there are very few people here as a consequence. Now, I am here mostly to fuck with you.”

    Come on juanpee this is more complicated than your version. You are so full of shit. I have been dealing with groups of anti-Americans for years. These people have done group attacks IMA you participated in. You are a friggin liar of the first degree and you say these things to justify your bullying and bad behavior.

  3. JuanP on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:49 am 

    Delusional Davy “You don’t have time.”

    Nonsense! I have more than enough time! I am comfortably retired and independently wealthy. I can afford to do whatever I want with my time. Could you possibly come up with lamest excuse? LOL!

  4. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:52 am 

    “Now, I am here mostly to fuck with you.”

    Exactly and that is the type of behavior that shows you’re an obsessive egotistical bastard who only cares about himself. You could give a shit about this forum. This is about you and your obsessive behavior not what contributes or what is in the forums best interest.

  5. JuanP on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:55 am 

    Delusional Davy “Standing up to your shit juanp and not ignoring you as you trample on me. I am practicing self-defense you are prqacticing unprovoked attacks. Ignore me and I will ignore you. If you see an incidence of “your so called” bullying then reference it and it will be dealt with. AND BTW if I am attacked then you acknowledge that and STFU.”

    And how is that working for you, Davy? LOL! I know I am having fun, are you? I know you want me to ignore you, and that is why I am not going to do it. You don’t get to make me STFU, pussy! You can keep telling me to all you want and I will simply keep ignoring you and doing whatever I want! Do you realize how insane it is on your part to do that?

  6. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:57 am 

    Something is wrong with someone who comment this many times. You have mental issues and you are depositing them here like pigeon shit. You started this shit this morning and it won’t be long and you will deploy socks. If you get pissed then it is identity theft. All this is continuously disgusting behavior.

    JuanP said Delusional Davy “You don’t have time.”…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “Your old timers??? You mean…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “Nope, you have always been…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “This behavior has gotten to…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “If that bullying was caused…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “If you are so concerned abo…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “If you are so concerned abo…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “Just an excuse juanp for yo…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “You contribute shit occasio…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “If I am here a lot it is be…
    JuanP said Delusional Davy “I am not the type to be cen…
    JuanP said I don’t have any problems with Antius and Tw…

  7. JuanP on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 10:58 am 

    Delusional Davy “Exactly and that is the type of behavior that shows you’re an obsessive egotistical bastard who only cares about himself. You could give a shit about this forum. This is about you and your obsessive behavior not what contributes or what is in the forums best interest.”

    Are you writing about me or you, fool? You do realize you are projecting again, don’t you?

  8. JuanP on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:00 am 

    Delusional Davy “Something is wrong with someone who comment this many times. You have mental issues and you are depositing them here like pigeon shit. You started this shit this morning and it won’t be long and you will deploy socks. If you get pissed then it is identity theft. All this is continuously disgusting behavior.”

    You are projecting again, Davy! LOL!

  9. JuanP on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:02 am 

    You lose again, loser!

  10. JuanP on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:05 am 

    Delusional Davy “Come on juanpee this is more complicated than your version.”

    No, it is not.

  11. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:07 am 

    You said this Juanp so own it:
    “Now, I am here mostly to fuck with you.”

    This is your response:
    “Are you writing about me or you, fool? You do realize you are projecting again, don’t you?”

    This is what I said:
    “Exactly and that is the type of behavior that shows you’re an obsessive egotistical bastard who only cares about himself. You could give a shit about this forum. This is about you and your obsessive behavior not what contributes or what is in the forums best interest.”

    I think I made the point!

  12. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:10 am 

    For the forum’s sake I am off for a few hours. This wack job will do this until he get the first and last word.

  13. Antius on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:17 am 

    “I don’t have any problems with Antius and Twocats. I understand the opinions they are expressing.”

    I certainly do have a problem with you JuanP. There are perhaps one hundred comments on these boards on an average day and you post about half of them. Most of them are just pointless name calling. The ridiculous feud between Davy and yourself (have the two of you actually ever met?) is crapping up the board. Actually it has destroyed the board. There are now no more than half a dozen regular contributors here. Before I came here, I was a strong believer in unmoderated forums. You have both changed my mind.

  14. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 11:47 am 

    irregardless of Clogs supremacist philosophy.

    “Separatist” is the word that fully covers the cargo.

    Not that a virtue signaler like you is interested in anything but smear words.

    That’s OK. You are facing the inescapable prospect of your society laying in ruins, where we in Europe probably can escape the devastation, you will have to endure as a result of thinking for decades that you can preserve a first-world society with virtue signaling and believing in words, your enemies put in your minute brain with no other intention than to ruin your kind.

    Give us a call when you are ready to become our junior partner, OK? Or is that “supremacist thinking”?
    Must be.

  15. Sissyfuss on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 1:56 pm 

    Darling Clobdurate, you identify yourself as a separatist so you won’t be accused of associating with we of the hoi polloi. Yeah right, your feces don’t aromatize. Europe is in overshoot as is most of the planet and when harvest cycles are completely disrupted you will make a fine rump roast for some of your new citizen refugees. The US has to learn once again to function in a multicultural melting pot with alot less space. We could accomplish this if not for the rabble rousing seperating supremacists who cause such chaos where ever they show up. The natives had it right. In their tribes if there was such a troublemaker as Cloggedtongue in their midst they would have left him to the wolves. Or fed him to the refugees.

  16. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 2:55 pm 

    Sissy has reduced the entire human history to the only history he vaguely knows, namely the genocide of the native Americans at the hands of American whitey. Now he wants to use that event as a template for his personal guilt trip.

    Problem is, there is nothing special about that event. It is universal. Ethnic competition, easily ending in genocide, is nothing specially restricted to white folks.

    The entire history is little more that war between tribes, tribe in the most general sense of the word: any human club you can put a common label on: white, black, Asian, Jew, Palestinian, Ukrainian, Russian, Hutu, Tutsi, Turk, Kurd, Sunni, Shi’ite, Taliban, communist, capitalist, white Russian, red Bolshevik, British, Irish, Catholic Spanish, Protestant Dutch, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, the list goes on and on.

    I’m sorry, I didn’t invent this universe, although you try to blame me for it, or “my kind”.

    Put two soccer teams on a single field. What do they do, drink tea? Eh no. With a ball and a referee they are going to establish who is the strongest.

    There is a reason why in every zoo on this planet, different animals are put in different cages. Because if they don’t, these animals sea each other as their next lunch.

    This universe is Darwinian.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH27MC9KQUY

    But lame brains like you and empire dave refuse to see that and volunteer to open the floods gates of America and let in those who are inevitably going to compete with you. Until the next CW/genocide.

    And deep in your hearts you know this to be true, but you have no spine to resist and secretly hope it will happen after your time is up.

  17. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 3:08 pm 

    Clogg, I see you are calling me out as usual. Maybe check in and let Antius know you are showing some bad behavior against me so next time you get neutered he will know why.

  18. Sissyfuss on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 4:23 pm 

    Darwinian indeed, my truculent truffle. The strong survive but strong means quick on your feet and adaptable.I find the American tribes to be some of the most sustainable humans in history. And when your bloodthirsty antecedents started to take their lands they, the less greedy, reacted too late, perhaps 300 years too late. But the irony is that those brave warriors will have the last laugh and maybe their ancestors will be the last ones standing. We should listened to them instead of slaughtering them. But the Natzis of this world want your share as well as theirs.

  19. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 4:49 pm 

    Siss tries to invent a moral world order and at the same time professes to “love Nietzsche”, whom he clearly hadn’t understood.

    Beyond Good and Evil.

    Siss and dave would love to take a vacation from Darwinian reality. The tragedy is that the longer the vacation lasts, the harder reality will hit in their faces when vacation is over.

  20. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 5:05 pm 

    Merkel politically burried by her successor:

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/cdu-was-annegret-kramp-karrenbauer-in-der-migrationspolitik-will-a-1252702.html

    “What happened in 2015 must never happen again”

    Immigration is severely restricted.

  21. Cloggie on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 5:21 pm 

    https://youtu.be/VBHa6z3Bbt0

    Heartland stuff.

  22. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 5:22 pm 

    “Siss and dave would love to take a vacation from Darwinian reality. The tragedy is that the longer the vacation lasts, the harder reality will hit in their faces when vacation is over.”

    We live in reality and are respectful of humanity. You live in a fantasy world on many levels dictated by your extreme shame from being overrun in WWII. Most normal people would move on but not clogged. You live the deadly serious passion of envy and resentment. You have murderous lust in your heart for a final solution to colored people and whites you hate. BTW, clogged, you love things to be stirred up on the forum don’t you? You have made it a point to call me out today in hope that turmoil will erupt. You are a shit disturber that hides in the background like an arsonist.

  23. makati1 on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 5:37 pm 

    Europe, like the US, cannot accept that the power has moved farther West to Asia. Like the two westerners above, debating who is fartherest down the shit hole. Both dreaming of a world that does not, and never will again, exist. Western dominance.

    Europeans wiped out the natives in the Americas as they built a nation based on greed. The US is trying to wipe out everyone who doesn’t agree with them for a similar reason. Sound familiar guys?

  24. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 5:39 pm 

    “11.9 Gigawatts Of Wind Capacity Installed In The Americas In 2018”
    https://tinyurl.com/y2sedhg7

    “Total installed wind capacity in North, Central, and South America increased to 135 gigawatts (GW) in 2018 with the addition of 11.9 GW of new wind capacity, an increase of 12% on 2017, according to new figures published by the Global Wind Energy Council.”

    “The North American (Canada and the United States) market is obviously one of the most well-known wind energy markets in the world, and in 2018 capacity additions increased by 10.8% compared to 2017.”

  25. Davy on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 5:53 pm 

    “Dubai Planning Large-Scale Solar Powered Hydrogen Production”
    https://tinyurl.com/y6spkr2l

    “Something you hear frequently if you are a clean tech aficionado is that excess solar and wind power can be used to split water into oxygen and hydrogen. The Dubai Supreme Council of Energy, the 2020 Dubai Higher Committee and the Dubai Electricity and Water Authority broke ground in early February on a solar power hydrogen electrolysis facility located in the Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum Solar Park.”

    “Siemens is providing much of the technology that will be used at the demonstration facility. Joe Kaeser, president and CEO of Siemens, said the UAE was the perfect location for Siemens to test the technology. One of the primary uses of the hydrogen produced will be to power Dubai’s public transportation system. “We are aware of the stress that is placed on vehicles in this region due to the high levels of heat; with hydrogen cells, you are not putting as much strain on the vehicle and that improves its longevity,” Kaeser said. “However, this is only the first step and we are eager to explore more ways in which we can adapt the technology to other sectors. The interest from various companies and partners has been immense and we are eager to work with all interested parties.”

  26. Go Speed Racer on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 8:46 pm 

    This chat board is really deteriorating.
    Looks like a bunch of 4 year olds.

    From now on, the policy is, unless you
    are posting about setting old couches and
    old tires on fire, in your backyard
    with a splash of diesel fuel,
    then your post will be removed.

  27. Go Speed Racer on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 8:48 pm 

    The good news is, since industrial
    agriculture is now extincting all the
    insect species, then mankind will also
    go extinct,
    but not before I collect a 1978 Ford LTD
    Royal Brougham to go along with
    my 1979 Lincoln Town Car in my vintage
    car collection with an American flag on
    the wall and some fake gas pumps,
    in the extra garage I constructed
    on the 10 acre parcel

  28. makati1 on Mon, 11th Feb 2019 9:32 pm 

    The decline of America is only increasing in speed. The US is about to take a big step closer to total isolation while JHK points out another of it’s follies.

    “On Thursday, the House Judiciary Committee passed a bill that would allow the U.S. Justice Department to sue members of OPEC for manipulating the oil market. The so-called “NOPEC” bill would remove sovereign immunity, exposing member countries to antitrust regulation…the prospect of the NOPEC bill becoming law has raised alarm bells not just for OPEC, but also for international oil companies who fear reprisals abroad. Companies like ExxonMobil and BP have major stakes in projects in places like Nigeria and Iraq. These OPEC-member countries could retaliate if they face punitive action from the U.S. government.”

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Washington-Eyes-Crackdown-On-OPEC.html

    Meanwhile: “If industrial society is disintegrating (literally), then what takes its place? Many suppose that it is a robotic utopia powered by some as-yet-unharnessed cosmic juice, a nirvana of algorithms, culminating in orgasm-without-end. Personally, I would check the “no” box on that outcome as a likely scenario….

    The self-proclaimed socialists are actually seeing the world through a rear-view mirror. What they are really talking about is divvying up the previously-accumulated wealth, soon to be bygone….the next time socialism is enlisted as a tool for redistributing wealth, we will make the unhappy discovery that most of that wealth is gone…. (Fancy paper and electronic digits are NOT wealth. Wealth is real things like mines and fields and factories that produce useful and needed things, not Wall Street and 401k/retirement schemes, or even bank accounts.)

    The process will be uncomfortably sharp and disorientating. The West especially will not know what hit it as it emergently self-reorganizes back into something that resembles the old-time feudalism….(Yep! Or worse!)

    Something the analysts are calling “recession” is plowing across the landscape like one of those darkly majestic dust-storms of the 1930s, only this time we won’t be able to re-fight anything like World War Two to get all the machines running again in the aftermath. Nor, of course, will the Make America Great Again fantasy work out for those waiting in the squalid ruins of the post-industrial rust-belt or the strip-mall wastelands of the Sunbelt.”

    http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/mistaken-futures/

    And the slip slidin’ goes on…

  29. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 12:02 am 

    “Dubai Planning Large-Scale Solar Powered Hydrogen Production”

    Exactly the right way forward for a rich country like Dubai: securing a hydrogen future after oil and gas.

    http://ieefa.org/dubai-solar-bid-ties-record-low-at-2-4-cents-kwh/

    “Dubai solar bid ties record low at 2.4 cents/kWh”

    Add to that electrolysis at 0.6 cent/kWh, that is 3 cent. Add 1 cent for 80% electrolysis efficiency and you have 4 cent or €1,32 for a kilo of hydrogen.

    In a modest European car, 1 kWh brings you 8 km.

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/opel-ampera-e-chevrolet-bolt/

    So, for a ridiculous low amount of €1.32 you can drive 8 x 33 = 264 km.

    All energy and emission problems solved in one stroke. All what remains from the “peak oil clusterfuck” is a playground for energy engineers to tweak a little, but the foundations of a “solar economy” are secured.

  30. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 1:57 am 

    Europe, like the US, cannot accept that the power has moved farther West to Asia. Like the two westerners above, debating who is fartherest down the shit hole. Both dreaming of a world that does not, and never will again, exist. Western dominance.

    I have always said that China is going to be the next #1 and I’m happy with that. And I have given the recipe how to deal with that new geopolitical fact from a European perspective (namely PBM + some balkanized parts from the broken US legacy, 120 million max.).

    And if our resident self-defeating leftists like mak, dave, siss, derhund and what not, all leave the sinking ship in the direction of Manila, Italy or Columbia to avoid CW2, all the while shouting “racist”, “natzi”, fine with me. The sooner the US-Anglo-Zionist Titanic hits the iceberg and sinks, the better, so we can begin to reconstruct European (=white) civilization after the end of the American Era, the worst disaster in European history.

    White supremacist… who… me?

    LOL

    Spare me your kosher-invented smear words.

    Tomb stone USA:

    “We were not match for the Jews”

  31. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 2:07 am 

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6693697/Pro-Europe-majority-wake-save-EU-George-Soros-says.html

    “Pro-Europe majority must wake up before the continent sleepwalks into oblivion and the EU vanishes like the USSR, says billionaire financier George Soros”

    Our common moral conscious George Soros has spoken again.

    He is afraid that the EU will suffer the same fate as the USSR-1991.

    Now that would be a tragedy.lol

    Seriously, what he is really afraid of is the upcoming European election in May, where the European populist right is expected to gain massively and that his precious “Open Society Program”, this kike has in store for us Europeans (in order to get us destroyed), will go the way of the Dodos.

    On top of that, Soros doesn’t like Brexit one bit, because Britain is the long arm of the Americans in Europe and with them out of the way, Europe could go East, where that horrible nationalist Putin is located. 640 million white people, nuclear armed to the teeth, that would make George a little white around the nose.

    Poor George Soros. His kosher-run empire aka The West, established after 1945, is crumbling before his eyes. Perhaps time to finally climb in your coffin George, not a minute too early?

  32. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 2:38 am 

    Clogg

    The Daily Mail has ‘mastered the art of running stories that aren’t true’, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales says
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/19/daily-mail-jimmy-wales-fake-news-wikipedia-wikitribune.html

    Wikipedia bans Daily Mail as ‘unreliable’ source
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website

    Stories like this is why Wiki banned them

    Woman, 63, ‘becomes PREGNANT in the mouth’ with baby squid after eating calamari
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2159692/Womans-mouth-falls-pregnant-squid-biting-sea-creature-scientists-claim.html

  33. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 2:39 am 

    Soros: “EU Is Sleepwalking Into Oblivion”

    https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/political-party-systems-undermining-european-union-by-george-soros-2019-02

    Its a lost cause George! Europe will soon break into a million pieces like the Soviet Union did after it collapsed!

  34. makati1 on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 3:05 am 

    MOB, maybe you should be more concerned about his other prediction?

    “George Soros says the US and China are in a cold war that ‘threatens to turn into a hot one'”

    Published 3:24 PM ET Thu, 24 Jan 2019 Updated 9:11 AM ET Fri, 25 Jan 2019

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/george-soros-us-and-china-are-in-cold-war-that-threatens-to-turn-into-a-hot-one.html

    Always pointing the finger of blame at another. Just like hypocrite Davy.

  35. makati1 on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 3:14 am 

    “Why isn’t Wikipedia a reputable source?”

    ” We also touched on why Wikipedia is not a reputable source to cite in an academic paper…”

    http://en.writecheck.com/blog/2013/03/15/why-isnt-wikipedia-a-reputable-source/

    “The Top 10 Reasons Students Cannot Cite or Rely On Wikipedia”

    “But its reliability and credibility fall well short of the standards for a school paper. According to Wikipedia itself, “[W]hile some articles are of the highest quality of scholarship, others are admittedly complete rubbish. … use [Wikipedia] with an informed understanding of what it is and what it isn’t.””

    http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/education/2010/march/The-Top-10-Reasons-Students-Cannot-Cite-or-Rely-on-Wikipedia.html

    And on and on. Look at who signed the paycheck of the author who wrote the article/fact for the spin or outright lie.

  36. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 3:40 am 

    Mak

    Here is an actual peer reviewed study that tested wiki’s accuracy.

    Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica
    https://www.cnet.com/news/study-wikipedia-as-accurate-as-britannica/

  37. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 3:42 am 

    Mak

    Wiki doesn’t allow any ads..You dumbass..They lose millions a year because they don’t..That is why it asked for donations..

    You are so easily duped by fake news..You just go searching for whatever you want to believe..

    This is why you had no idea what China’s real debt was..

  38. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 3:52 am 

    ‘Autopilot’-ed Tesla Crashes Off NJ Highway, Driver Reportedly Unable To Regain Control Of Vehicle.

    Some of the driver’s claims and Tesla’s full response were later edited out of the News 12 NJ report without explanation.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-11/autopilot-ed-tesla-crashes-nj-highway-driver-reportedly-unable-regain-control

  39. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 4:06 am 

    Wikipedia is a wonderful resource, I donate to it because I use it 100 times or more per day (yesterday 167 times to be precise).

    Nevertheless it is kosher run, so when it comes to history and politics you get the leftist lies of the empire served. But if you want to know more about hydrogen or Charlemagne, its perfect.

  40. Antius on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 4:11 am 

    “Add to that electrolysis at 0.6 cent/kWh, that is 3 cent. Add 1 cent for 80% electrolysis efficiency and you have 4 cent or €1,32 for a kilo of hydrogen.”

    This is not realistic, even with dirt cheap solar power, which may not be sustainable. My previous analysis was based upon projected efficiency and cost improvements for 2030. It calculated that with solar electricity costing €0.03/kWh; hydrogen gas at the cathode of the electrolysis cell would cost €0.11/kWh. That is about 3-4 times the cost of diesel before tax.

    By the way, 80% electrolysis stack efficiency is not realistic. This is the cell efficiency, before other losses associated with heaters and pumps within the stack are taken into account. When these are accounted for, efficiency is 60-70%, maybe 75% by 2030; time will tell. Here is my previous analysis; I have posted it here before.
    ………………………………………………………………………………..

    I decided to take a second look at the prospects for a hydrogen economy at Cloggie’s request. I have attempted to rely on peer reviewed scientific papers, though I appreciate that these may not be easily accessible to everyone here.

    1. Concerning the cost of electrolysis infrastructure. The most up to date cost estimate for electrolysis comes from the ‘International Journal of Hydrogen Energy’ and is titled: ‘Future cost and performance of water electrolysis: An expert elicitation study’.

    The paper produces cost projection for three electrolysis technologies at full scale production.

    Technology 1: Alkali Electrolysis Cells. Full scale unit cost averaged at $1400/kWe in 2015 and was projected to be $1100/kWe by 2030.

    Technology 2: Proton Exchange Membrane Electrolysis Cells. Full scale unit cost averaged at $2100/kWe in 2015 and was projected to be $800/kWe by 2030.

    Technology 3: Solid Oxide Electrolysis Cells. Full scale unit cost averaged at $5800/kWe in 2015 and was projected to be $1100/kWe by 2030.

    Whilst it is difficult to predict exactly where these costs will be in 10 years’ time, these estimates suggest that Alkali electrolysis can already deliver capital cost of $1400/KWe and that a cost of $1000/kWe is a reasonable assumption for one of the three technologies considered. Is Cloggie’s estimate of $500/kWe possible? Yes –with greater than expected cost reductions and large economy of scale driving down stack costs. But I think this should be considered a stretch case, rather than something that is automatically expected. For the time being, I will work with $1000/kWe, because it is the value supported by peer reviewed study.

    2. The estimated 2030 lifetime of electrolysis cells is 60,000-90,000 hours (AEC); 20,000-90,000 hours (PEMEC); 30,000-90,000 hours (SOEC). I am going to assume a median value of 75,000 hours for SOEC. This translates to non-stop lifetime of 8.6 years, or 28.5 years at 30% capacity factor, assuming that thermal cycling does not result in unexpected damage. I am going to assume an interest rate of 5% on borrowed money and a flat repayment rate of $68.5/kWe, which allows complete payoff of capital cost in 27 years.

    3. Stack efficiency. This includes losses to things like pumps, heaters and water purification, so it is a whole system, rather than simple cell efficiency. For AEC: 50-75%; for PEMEC: 50-78%. Pumping losses and thermal losses will all be minimised in systems scaled to hundreds of MW, so I will assume efficiency of 70% in a large scale, well optimised system.

    4. Stack capacity factor. This depends heavily upon the assumptions made for the driving power source. An electrolysis plant using solar power in the desert will be in darkness ~50% of the time and illumination will follow a sinusoidal pattern between sunrise and sunset. I am going to assume a capacity factor of 30% and further assume that the liquefaction plant can absorb peaks in power supply by storing thermal energy in an intermediate cold store.

    Putting these figures and assumptions together, an estimate can be made for the capital repayment costs associated with the electrolysis unit. At 70% efficiency, to produce 1kW hydrogen would require 1.43kWe cell capacity. The repayment costs are $97.86/year. At 30% capacity factor, the 1.43kWe cell will generate some 2630kWh of hydrogen per year. So the marginal capital cost per unit of hydrogen energy is 3.72 Euro-cent per kWh.

    If the capacity factor can be increased to 50%, say, by using a mixture of renewable energy sources to provide the driver current, then marginal capital cost drops to 2.23 Euro-cent per kWh hydrogen. At 90% capacity factor, driven by a nuclear reactor, marginal capital cost declines to 1.24 Euro-cent per kWh hydrogen.

    Absent from this calculation is any consideration of operations costs, electricity cost or profit. And of course we have not considered the energy or operations cost of any liquefaction plant. Ignoring liquefaction and assuming operating costs to be about 1/3rd of capital costs, some estimates can be made.

    Solar powered scenario: Lazard (2018) provides a low-end LCOE for thin-film solar at $40/MWh. Given that we will probably choose to locate a hydrogen plant where there is plentiful sunshine, this value will be assumed. Some 1.42kWh of electricity are needed to produce 1kWh of hydrogen. This puts the electricity cost of 1kWh of hydrogen at 5.68 Euro-cent. The final LCOE for 1kWh of hydrogen gas produced using thin film solar is therefore: 1.33 x 3.72 + 5.68 = 10.64 Euro-cent per kWh.

    The costs associated with a liquefaction (or other chemical conversion) and / or storage facility, will be additive to this.

  41. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 4:59 am 

    Will dive in Antius post tonight after work.

  42. Davy on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 5:40 am 

    I follow energy and system issues daily and find myself much more optimistic about renewables especially now with the combination of renewables and hydrogen. My view is we need all of the above with adapted behavior to mitigate a coming decline. I have a renewable system myself and love it. In fact I am expanding it. The system is not cheap and it takes significant demand management efforts to maximize the system. I am on the farm most of the time so I gather as much solar power as the weather allows through switching between solar and grid. I make an effort to save my batteries so I don’t run the system at night. Batteries are there for grid failure. I am doing daytime solar gathering. I also have a wood boiler for home heat and hot water. I harvest my own wood which is also expensive in a relative sense considering how cheap grid power and propane still are.

    I practice energy efficiency efforts with most purchases. My personal activities follow conservation efforts. If I drive I try to combine supply runs and avoid discretionary trips. I waste as little food as possible. Most food waste goes to the dogs, chickens, and compost. I have gardens, orchard, and grapes. We can food. I raise animals on a rotational grazing system with multispecies. The animals are grass fed. I have livestock guardian dogs that offer me security too. I make a big effort to limit driving. I am participating in consumerism but mainly with a focus on prep. I am buying tools and supplies with a future for the time when we may not have consumerism as we know it. I also spend considerable time with maintaining environmental restoration efforts with native grasses. I promote healthy habitat. My point here is not to brag about myself. I am blessed to be able to do this. This means I humbly except the challenge to try to be greener in a way I call real green. I can do this so I should as a obligation to nature.

    I go a step forward with my personal activity which revolves around embracing efforts at sustainability and resilience. This means physical fitness and health. It means intellectual pursuits. It means prepping for the loss of systematic support of a globalized world. I am motivated to less affluence as a value statement. It means a spiritual approach to the planet and the web of life.

    I am a doomer but much less a doomer than I once was. My doom now focusses on longer term because I still see population, consumption and the planetary system as problematic with unsustainability and decline. Systems cycle and in the super cycle we call human civilization I feel we are late stage with capitalism and our human fabric that we call modern society. That said this does not necessarily mean immediate collapse although that is a possibility. I do greatly worry about the geopolitical situation and our tendency to weaponize the world.

    Personally I am dedicated to being a monastery of sort for the next generation working towards a hybrid syntheses of the best of the old and the new ways of life. This includes a library and collections of tools to that effort. I am trying to live locally, seasonally, and with intermittency in a delocalized on demand world. This unhealthy world is moved through a deep social narrative of profit and discretionary pleasures. I am using this destructive human behavior to leave it. I am acknowledging this way of life is the Anthropocene and survival means adapting to a late stage human world that defines the Anthropocene.

    I am trying to lay low under the radar so to speak. I am trying to collapse in place. When I say collapse it is more in regards to dropping out of the unsustainable and non-resilient where I can. I practice relative sacrifice which means I adapt to the “is what it is” of family and community. I have to use the car, internet, and industrial food system so I do but with caution and efforts to leave it. I try to educate where I can but not in a pressured way. I tell people this is a way of life I find enjoyable. I am mentally ready for conflict because I know at any time security could deteriorate. I have systems and supplies in place for collapse. I am not going to live like a hardcore doomer and my prep efforts are a way of life I enjoy. I am academically inclined to read about energy, systems, and environmental decline.

    These efforts do not make me better. It is more an experiment with an alternative to the unsuitable status quo. It gives me a personal mission in search of meaning which I think can benefit others. I have given up on late stage civilization narrative of meaning but realize I can’t leave it. I focus on the grass roots. People can make a difference locally and personally and hopefully some of that will bubble up. We are on a gradient down in my opinion but not necessarily a steep gradient. That is not for us to know yet.

  43. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 7:59 am 

    Neither of you two nazis fucks know anything about hydrogen or, science. You are are both imbeciles, who get off on stroking each others dicks here on a daily basis. Cloggg doesn’t work any more than Davy does, believe me, I know this for a fact. Nobody in Europe would hire an elderly, stinky low level data entry clerk who spouts off his neo-nazis fantasies all day long instead of working.

    I am going to hear about this from Davy later, but I dont care, he can’t hurt me. muhahahahaaa.

  44. Cloggie on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 8:14 am 

    Ridiculous to call davy a “natzi”.
    Natzis do have standards you know.
    For starters they don’t howl “racism!” all day, like empire dave does.

  45. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 8:24 am 

    Trump supporter ‘violently attacks’ BBC cameraman at rally after US president whips up anger over media

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-rally-bbc-cameraman-attacked-el-paso-texas-fake-news-media-a8774926.html

  46. Davy on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 8:26 am 

    “I am going to hear about this from Davy later, but I dont care, he can’t hurt me. muhahahahaaa.”

    Sounds like you know who. Definitely not MOB.

  47. Davy on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 8:27 am 

    “For starters they don’t howl “racism!” all day, like empire dave does.”

    clogged, why not stuff the call outs. Don’t you think all of us should try to lower the noise here. WTF.

  48. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 8:33 am 

    New Jersey man involved in scary crash after autopilot Tesla veers off road

    NORTH BRUNSWICK, New Jersey (WABC) — A man in New Jersey was involved in a scary crash Sunday after his autopilot Tesla Model X suddenly veered off the road, and crashed through signs and bushes.

    The owner says the car’s autopilot forced him to jump the curb and mow down several signs before coming to a muddy stop along Route 1 in North Brunswick. Bits and pieces of the Tesla were scattered along the northbound side of the highway.

    https://abc7ny.com/nj-man-involved-in-scary-crash-after-autopilot-tesla-veers-off-road/5133538/?fbclid=IwAR1i4UuQ8Du5mDtNvSutU_QOcIYSNVqU3NYqKh_MJ7t7ASvX4LSFYOy4a-o

  49. Sissyfuss on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 9:45 am 

    Trumps attacks on the left leaning and the struggling to be objective media is as deep state as it gets. Trash all trust in media that isn’t owned by Murdoch is a winning strategy for the Grifter but the rest of society will be poorer for it, which mirrors their economic standing as well.

  50. I AM THE MOB on Tue, 12th Feb 2019 11:09 am 

    Saudi Arabia goes on the hunt for global oil and gas

    https://www.ft.com/content/e0a6775c-2e4f-11e9-ba00-0251022932c8

    Why would you go hunting if you had 260Gbs left in your backyard?

    Doesn’t pass the smell test..

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