The Economics Of Population

22 Comments on "The Economics Of Population"

rockman on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:05 am 



Yes indeed, very sad. And like elsewhere in the world the citizens could improve their conditions with better education combined with opportunities.

But: “…the Nigerian government must invest massively”. That’s not going work nor is any other theoretical fix until govt corruption is eliminated. Nigerian political corruption in legendary in the oil patch. From customs agents (you want to bring an X in your suitcase…bring two because the agent gets one) to the head of the oil ministry where a tanker holding 500,000 to disappears from the ledgers.

So even with word class education and “massive new infrastructure” the Nigerian population won’t benefit…TPTB will still skim the value off before it gets to the people. If TPTB would be willing to make those changes the changes would have already been made long ago. Short of a true (and violent) peoples’ revolution nothing will change in Nigeria. And if it did succeed and a new set of thrives take over it still won’t change.

Davy on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:08 am 



Wow, this is a profound statement in an article that tries but fails to be optimistic with the illusion of positive change. This guy is in fantasyland except here:
“A situation where population grows at a geometric progression while the economy grows arithmetically bespeaks doom.”

This is a good read in denial and delusion being shattered by reality. Read it and see the parts he mistakenly thinks are positives. China and India are basket cases of overpopulation and overconsumption. They are hardly poster nations of success with large populations. The status quo will point to economic success markers but we here know the reality of what overpopulation and overconsumption do to a country. It is the same thing locust do. They strip the land bare of sustainability and resilience only our swarm has nowhere to move to.

We modern humans are very capable at bargaining and positive motivation in the face of deadly predicaments. Nigeria is a crime scene of denial and delusion. No, I am not being racist. I am being honest, something many are incapable of in our insane status quo. We can’t handle the truth because the truth today is colored with the many faces of death.

The west is in the same situation because it is connected to places like Nigeria and in a consumption overshoot and localized population overshoot. Have you ever been to the New York Metro or South Florida? Tell me these places can hold together in a drop in economic activity. This consumption overshoot is just as deadly but less apparent. Consumption requirements and population are heading in the wrong direction everywhere it is just each region has its own particular mix. Nigeria is one of the worst by all markers. I suspect it will be one of the world’s first large failed states.

makati1 on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:18 am 



Interesting: “For most countries, huge population symbolizes strength. Unfortunately, many people in this part of the world (Western) view large population as economic encumbrance. Both China and India have, however, debunked this position with their huge and creative population. If large population is an economic evil, China would not have been great economically and technologically. At the last count, China was credited with the highest world reserve. If large population is less advantageous, India would not have been a leading manufacturing country and a destination for medical tourists.”

makati1 on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:33 am 



60s redo?

“”Bodies On The Ground” – At Least 7 Injured In Houston, Suspect Down, Bomb Squad Called”
“Charlotte Police Release Mugshots Of Captured Looters As Protests Continue For Fifth Night”
“Five Killed At Washington State Mall; Manhunt For Gunman Continues”
“Charlotte Is Burning: Waking Up From The American Dream… Finally?”
“Protests Erupt After Police Seeking Suspect Kill a Different Man in Charlotte, N.C.”
“Guns Sell Out In Charlotte As Local Police Refuses To Release Shooting Video”
“More kneeling players, raised fists, in anthem protests”
“Device explodes near N.J. train station as robot tries to disarm it”
“Police fatally shot an unarmed black man in Oklahoma after his SUV stalled on the way home from class”
And on and on.

The US is heating up and it is NOT from Global Warming.

noobtube on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:35 am 



PeakOil.com is just a Zionist, Masonic, racist, genocidal propaganda site.

I used to think this website was about legitimate study of oil depletion.

Now, it has just become Stormfront-lite.

donstewart on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:39 am 



I posted this on Ugo Bardi’s web site. It is relevant here also…Don Stewart

Ugo
I was having some coffee and rereading Capra and Luisi’s book The Systems View of Life this morning. I propose a very fundamental question to you.

I have previously called your attention to Nick Lane’s book The Vital Question: Energy, Evolution, and the Origins of Complex Life. In that book, Lane explains how the need to mediate between two autonomous but fundamentally different actors, the host cell and the mitochondria, have shaped evolution and resulted, among other things, in death as the destination for eukaryotes because Nature could not find a better ultimate solution to the conflict.

In their Introduction, Capra and Luisi describe the historic tension between mechanism and holism in Biology. They suggest that the ‘clockwork’ paradigm from a few hundred years ago is being replaced by a ‘network’ paradigm, with the network being fundamentally integrated to accomplish certain overarching objectives. (Think Gaia…)

But my question to you is this: Suppose humans are to be understood as the uneasy symbiosis of two fundamentally different processes: physical and aspirational…analogous to the symbiosis between the host cell and the mitochondria. There is no particular reason to assume that the physical characteristics and the aspirations are any better aligned than to assume that the marriage between the host cell and the mitochondria proceeded smoothly. In fact, if we simply look at the obvious destructiveness of human aspirations in terms of the natural world, we would probably conclude that Nature hasn’t yet figured out how to generate the equivalent of eukaryotic death in order to keep the conflict from spinning even farther out of control.

My label for the problems generated by two autonomous actors who need to cooperate closely in order to achieve objectives is the Two Clocks Problem. (Clocks in the broad sense of ‘what makes them tick’). We can see this problem in everything from host cell and mitochondria to rabbits and foxes to husbands and wives to trading and wars between nations. And perhaps between the physical environment and the aspirations of humans?

If my hypothesis is correct, then some attention should probably be paid to the nature of the conflict between aspirations and physical reality, and mechanisms which might ameliorate the conflict.

Don Stewart

Cloggie on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 8:56 am 



For most countries, huge population symbolizes strength. Unfortunately, many people in this part of the world view large population as economic encumbrance. Both China and India have, however, debunked this position with their huge and creative population.

India creative?

GDP/capita nominal (wikipedia):

China $8.2k
India $1.8k
Nigeria $2.6k

So, we have to do something not just about our growing size, but the quality of our population… This is where the most populous countries in the world have got it right. They have educated and productive population that has proved to be viable economic asset to them.

The author mr Alalibo will not recognize a very important fact, that is beyond the boundaries of accepted political correct thinking. Of course does a population need education.

But now we are going to cross the verboten line:

Is the population able to absorb education, necessary for a China-style development?

The answer can be found in this map:

http://memolition.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IQAveragebyCountry-954×442.png

This map immediately makes clear why China is a success and India and Nigeria are not. And no UN or World Bank with the best intentions can change anything about it. A western or Chinese style education system implemented in Nigeria is a waste of money.

So this whole western idea of Third World Development is useless. There will be no development, never.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1713275,00.html

If you want to improve the lives of the people of Nigeria, you could recolonize it by Europe or China (provided they would be willing, which is doubtful) and provide simple agricultural and manufacturing facilities.

The only other way to change the hopeless situation is a giant Nazi Lebensborn-style eugenics program, where the best Nigerian males, with the highest IQ, are selected for procreation.

Do I hear our resident leftist do-gooders protesting?

Not going to happen of course.

What works for cattle and horses can’t be made to work for people, right?

Well then, enjoy the presence of 4 billion IQ70 people by 2100 with only needs and nothing to give.

joe on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 9:04 am 



Nature may not have done that because to do so would imply a self interested controlling mechanism. Since we are fully at liberty to destroy this planet, one can imagine there is no higher power to stop us (either gaia or god), we are left in control of a rock spinning out of control in the void of space.
That said, we do apparently live East of Eden, therefore why would God care what happens here? We use up all the resources and engage in conflicts which are nothing but excersises of petting our own ego’s.

Kenz300 on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 9:32 am 



Too many people create too much pollution and demand too many resources.

China made great progress in moving its people out of poverty one reason was slowing population growth.

If you can not provide for yourself you can not provide for a child.

CLIMATE CHANGE, declining fish stocks, droughts, floods, air water and land pollution, poverty, water and food shortages all stem from the worlds worst environmental problem OVER POPULATION.

Yet the world adds 80 million more mouths to feed, clothe, house and provide energy and water for every year.

This is unsustainable and is a big part of the Climate Change problem

Birth Control Permanent Methods: Learn About Effectiveness

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/birth_control_permanent_methods/article_em.htm

brough on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 9:33 am 



I agree with Rockman on this one.

Stopped doing business in Nigeria years ago, corruption everywhere. A country best left to their own devices. Rotten to the core.

Hello on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 10:04 am 



Sad to think that the West will no doubtedly be stupid enough to import all those 3rd wold cretins wholesale.

mx on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 11:01 am 



EDUCATION Controls Population, and probably Revolution.

Education of young girls delays their reproductive cycle, and makes them better citizens and economic performers.

Apneaman on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 12:42 pm 



Vatican Subversion Of Family Planning Responsible For The Population Explosion and the Refugee Crisis

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/09/vatican-subversion-of-family-planning-responsible-for-the-population-explosion-and-the-refugee-crisis/

Anonymous on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 1:03 pm 



So what if the govt and oil industry is corrupt in nigeria? What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Shell and its oily uS partners operating there are some of the most corrupt orgs in history. Nigeria has nothing on those guys.

But again so what does that have to do with the topic?

At 3.5% growth rate, Nigeras population will double in 20 years. Yes, 20 years. At 2.5%, it goes to 28 years. Not much help dropping a full % point is it? Whatever the conditions exist there that are encouraging them to breed like rats, needs to be addressed. And whatever those factors may be, its not generalized corruption, either in the govt, or the oil industry.

If corruption in the oil patch and govt were the root cause of runaway population in nigeria(or anywhere really), which some here are always eager to link to ‘oil corruption’*, theerich and cloggie wouldnt have a thing to worry about because there would be billions more of us whiteys in the world.

* Even funnier when you consider you guys only consider the ‘nigerian oil industry’ to have a corruption problem. Shell, Exxon, Chevron, however, are strangely exempt from that claim, right rockman?

Apneaman on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 1:04 pm 



Education in the west don’t mean shit anymore. All the education in the world won’t save the humans. Since when has education trumped reward seeking? Kids in the west are fucking dumbed down electronically intoxicated techno consumer slaves.

And their eyes glazed over

My college students are never entirely present in class, addicted to texts and tech. Is there any hope left for learning?

“One might think that the whopping $65,000 cost of attending Boston University for a year would provide ample reason to maintain focus during class, but one would be wrong.”

“Technology demands a significant amount of time and attention and has conditioned them to not question it. It takes up more and more of their bandwidth, and the net effect is lobotomising.”

“It is almost like the student is describing a Body Snatchers scenario, getting taken over by forces he’s aware of but can’t seem to control. What are those forces, exactly? And can he – or anyone – really control them?”

“Much as drug addicts adapt their behaviour to obtain and use drugs, many people do the same with technology – we crave the way it makes us feel, and getting a fix gives us a rush. Psychologists believe that social media creates a ‘dopamine induced loop’ of craving and satisfaction. ”

https://aeon.co/essays/can-students-who-are-constantly-on-their-devices-actually-learn

“a ‘dopamine induced loop’,” the very purpose of global civilization and life itself – chasing the next dopamine hit.

Apneaman on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 1:22 pm 



“Organisms are required by the Second Law of thermodynamics to dissipate energy.“Power” is energy dissipation for a purpose and equals:
forces x flows = work rate + entropy produced.

Organisms evolved a bias to maximize fitness by maximizing power. With greater power, there is greater opportunity to allocate energy to reproduction and survival, and therefore, an organism that captures and utilizes more energy than another organism in a population will have a fitness advantage.

Individual organisms cooperate to form social groups and generate more power. Differential power generation and accumulation result in a hierarchical group structure.

“Politics” is power used by social organisms to control others. Not only are human groups never alone, they cannot control their neighbors’ behavior. Each group must confront the real possibility that its neighbors will grow its numbers and attempt to take resources from them. Therefore, the best political tactic for groups to survive in such a milieu is not to live in ecological balance with slow growth, but to grow rapidly and be able to fend off and take resources from others[5].”

http://www.dieoff.org/

“Now comes the most important part of this overly simplified story: The group with the larger population always has an advantage in any competition over resources, whatever those resources may be. Over the course of human history, one side rarely has better weapons or tactics for any length of time, and most such warfare between smaller societies is attritional. With equal skills and weapons, each side would be expected to kill an equal number of its opponents. Over time, the larger group will finally overwhelm the smaller one. This advantage of size is well recognized by humans all over the world, and they go to great lengths to keep their numbers comparable to their potential enemies. This is observed anthropologically by the universal desire to have many allies, and the common tactic of smaller groups inviting other societies to join them, even in times of food stress.”

http://www.dieoff.org/#a5

peakyeast on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 3:14 pm 



“If large population is an economic evil, China would not have been great economically and technologically. At the last count, China was credited with the highest world reserve. If large population is less advantageous, India would not have been a leading manufacturing country and a destination for medical tourists.”

FOR HOW LONG TIME? Some people think civilisation should last long than is measured in banana fly lifetime.

Apneaman on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 4:55 pm 



No worries, the great cull (final?) will be underway before you know it. It will come down to the food in the end.

Scientists “too frightened” to tell truth on climate impacts

Professor Peter Wadhams says peers are failing in their duty through timidity, and warns China is planning huge land grabs as warming hits crop production

“Professor Peter Wadhams, an expert on the disappearing Arctic ice, says that while countries in North America and Europe are ignoring the threat that changing weather patterns are causing to the world food supply, China is taking “self-protective action”.

He says that changes in the jet stream caused by the melting of the ice in the Arctic are threatening the most productive agricultural areas on the planet.

“The impact of extreme, often violent weather on crops in a world where the population continues to increase rapidly can only be disastrous,” he warns.

“Sooner or later, there will be an unbridgeable gulf between global food needs and our capacity to grow food in an unstable climate. Inevitably, starvation will reduce the world’s population.”

“Professor Wadhams told Climate News Network that colleagues “were too frightened of their jobs or losing their grants to spell out what was really happening”. He said it makes him very angry that they are failing in their duty through timidity.

Based on his own measurements and calculations, he believes that summer ice in the Arctic will disappear before 2020 – which is 30 years before the IPCC estimate.

He also believes that sea level rise has been badly underestimated because the loss of ice from Greenland and the Antarctic was not included in the IPCC’s estimates.

“My estimates are based on real measurements of the ice in the Arctic – the IPCC rely on computer simulations. I know which I believe.”

“Bordering on dishonest

“They know it is happening, but they do not want to frighten the horses2 [alarm people]. It is bordering on the dishonest,” he says.”

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/09/26/scientists-too-frightened-to-tell-truth-on-climate-impacts/

Scientific community is self-censoring research to conform to views of vested interests

As a result, unsupported assertions contend that economic growth and emission cuts are compatible.

https://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.com/2015/10/17/scientific-community-is-self-censoring-research-to-conform-to-views-of-vested-interests/

Top Climate Expert: Scientists Are Self Censoring to Downplay Risk of Climate Change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAsEpdIHhTo

makati1 on Mon, 26th Sep 2016 7:59 pm 



How many of us, wasting time on the internet, should be outside tending the garden, feeding the chickens and splitting wood for the coming winter? Or the equivalent in your neighborhood?

I am wasting time, for the most part, because I have nothing else I can do for now except learn, plan and save money. Next year, the physical part begins and I am looking forward to abandoning the internet and getting my hands dirty again. I may be too old to do heavy manual labor, but I can plant and weed and take care of the animals. All things I have done for many years before the ‘city living’ began in 2005.

yukonfisher on Tue, 27th Sep 2016 2:19 pm 



Apneaman: You quote Peter Wadhams on arctic sea ice: he believes that summer ice in the Arctic will disappear before 2020 – which is 30 years before the IPCC estimate.
This simply cannot happen any more because the metric for deciding the arctic is ice free has been updated.
It now says that the arctic will be deemed ice free when its average monthly minimum is under 1 million sqkm for five consecutive years.
Thus it is mathematically impossible for all the arctic ice to disappear before 2020.

Apneaman on Tue, 27th Sep 2016 3:27 pm 



yukonfisher

“It now says that the arctic will be deemed ice free when its average monthly minimum is under 1 million sqkm for five consecutive years.”

Who is “it”? The IPCC? So what? Since I started heavy into the science 1 million sqkm was always the definition of “ice free”. So they moved the goalposts to soothe the sheep’s fears. It’s done all the time by TPTB. The US census just did it with the income numbers, and it was done in 2005 with the definition of crude oil. Fuck, way too many examples of goal post moving to list. Goal post moving is the go to move in collapsing civilizations. Degrading the currency is in the same category.

As for the disappearance of the sea ice, they can count it standing on one leg with their eyes closed, but that will not change the physics. Open water absorbs most of the energy. This type of thing is to be expected as the humans reach their tipping point and it’s just begun. Ghost dancing, more lying, techno cargo cults and more crazy explanations and goal post moving to come as the entire human project and the biosphere unravels.

Fact is, most humans do not possess the psychological wherewithal to process the scale of what is going down nor the consequences. This is not a slight, but the default mode for most humans. It evolved that way for a good reason – survival, but became a fatal handicap since industrialization started. We’ll never stop. Can’t.

Got a link to said goalpost moving?

Let’s not forget that volume is just as important a metric as extent or area.

Arctic Sea Ice Minimum Volumes 1979-2015 – 30 second animation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYNDT2kProU

Kenz300 on Wed, 28th Sep 2016 9:53 am 



Maybe the solution to the population crisis is to slow population growth. Every year the world adds 80 million more mouths to feed, clothe, house and provide an education and jobs for. This is not sustainable.

Travel to the Real Philippines: Homeless Family w/ 3 Young Kids. Poverty among Filipinos is High

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgCVQqSK_Vw

Having a child that you can not provide for is cruel and leads to more poverty, suffering and despair

Child Beggars Of India- A Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spA3gb4Eiyc

The Effects Of Growth: Sprawl & Development – YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA33sraoyCk