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Page added on October 11, 2017
Saudi Arabia’s Revolution From the Top Has No Place for Critics
Few would describe Mohammed Al-Arefe as a defender of women’s rights. In one infamous video, the Saudi cleric explains exactly how a man should beat his wife.
But when the government decided to allow women to drive cars, up popped Al-Arefe on state TV to say what a good idea that was. “A modest woman will remain modest whether she drives or not,” he told the nation. Other religious leaders, once hostile to any departure from traditional ways, joined the chorus of approval.
The kingdom’s powerful preachers were getting with the program. A couple of weeks earlier, they’d seen what happens to those who don’t. More than a dozen prominent clerics, activists and businessmen were arrested and accused of “pushing an extremist agenda.”
Under Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, Saudi Arabia is seeking to reintroduce itself to the world — opening its economy to global business, and its society to practices once deemed un-Islamic. At the same time, the limited space for criticism and debate that once existed in this absolute monarchy is being stifled.
‘More Repressive’
The kingdom has become “more repressive than in the past,” said James Dorsey, a Middle East specialist at Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University. “It’s a break with the era of King Abdullah, who often sought to forge consensus,” he said. “The Salmans do not tolerate any criticism whatsoever.”
Saudi factions used to compete for influence at the royal court. Conservatives carried much more weight, and were allowed sway over social policies and education; liberals were sometimes appeased with small steps toward reform. Inertia ruled.
Things began to change when King Salman succeeded his brother Abdullah in 2015. The transformation accelerated — and the circle of decision-making narrowed — with the rise of Salman’s son to a dominant position in the government.
Prince Mohammed envisions a “vibrant society,” with more women in the workforce and more entertainment options. His economic program is based on a radical shift from public to private sector, and diversification out of oil. He’s cited the disruptive innovators of Silicon Valley, like Facebook Inc.’s Mark Zuckerberg, as role models.
‘Under Attack’
It’s not all coercion. The crown prince has cozied up to many potential critics. He posed for a photo with Al-Arefe, the smiling preacher’s arm wrapped around him, and held a personal meeting with a once-oppositional cartoonist.
But ultimately, change on this scale can only come from the top down, some supporters say.
“You need a very firm hand to see this through without provoking chaos,” said Ali Shihabi, who’s close to the government and executive director of the Arabia Foundation in Washington. “The country is going through a generational succession, the government is undertaking a herculean effort to restructure the country amid low oil prices, and it’s under attack by Shiite and Sunni jihadis and Iran.”
A search for consensus would be futile, he said, because “the political spectrum between the conservatives and the liberals is so wide as to be impossible to reconcile.”
‘Kingdom of Fear’
Critics see it differently, even if they increasingly have to leave the country in order to say so.
“Saudi Arabia never was an open society, but it never was a kingdom of fear,” said Jamal Khashoggi, a senior journalist and former government adviser now living in self-imposed exile in the U.S. The wave of arrests is “part of the closing down of space for freedom of expression,” he said.
That’s also affecting liberals, often a term of abuse in the kingdom. On the night of the driving decision, authorities began calling prominent women’s rights advocates and warning them not to publicly celebrate — or face consequences, according to four people familiar with the matter. One of them speculated that the government didn’t want activists to get any credit for the decision, preferring to highlight the role of the leadership.
The government’s new Center for International Communications denied the claim, saying that “no one has been censored or warned about expressing their views.”
‘Manage the Narrative’
Shihabi said the government didn’t want activists provoking the conservative base, preferring the airwaves to be “dominated by voices from the religious establishment.”
“They need to manage the narrative,” he said.
After decades of unresponsive communications, the government has hired new public relations firms and appointed a U.S.-educated spokeswoman for its embassy in Washington. Its new media office in Riyadh is staffed by young and tech-savvy English speakers.
It all amounts to a “global public-relations coup,” said Tim Cooper, a London-based economist for BMI Research, a unit of Fitch Ratings. The driving announcement was a success on those terms, he said: “If Saudi Arabia wants to demonstrate that it’s open to foreign investment, these are the sort of things that continue to put it on the map.”
Outside Saudi borders, controlling the narrative is harder. Khashoggi aired his concerns in a Washington Post op-ed last month, declaring the kingdom had become “unbearable.”
‘Tough Judgement’
The crackdown continued last week when 22 people were arrested for “inciting public opinion” on social media. Some educated and previously outspoken Saudis are making plans to leave the country. During a recent conversation, one elite Saudi lowered his voice to say he’s looking for a way out. He said he loved the country and wanted its transformation plan to succeed, but was worried that only “yes-men” could thrive in the current climate.
Prince Mohammed’s bold departures on economic and social matters are matched by a newly assertive foreign policy. In Yemen and Qatar, concrete results have proved elusive. Still, patriotic fervor is running high. Images of Prince Mohammed are all over state media. Even orange-juice cartons in grocery stores are adorned with pictures that celebrate Saudi power: fighter jets, saluting soldiers, clenched fists.
People watch a projection depicting a portrait of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Riyadh.
The tougher policies at home and abroad are intertwined in the Twitter hashtag “black list,” launched by royal court adviser Saud Al Qahtani in August. He urged Saudis to name and shame people who took Qatar’s side in the Gulf dispute. There’ll be “tough judgment and pursuit” for every “mercenary” who gets blacklisted, he wrote.
The hashtag has taken on a life of its own. Recent targets include a famous comedian who makes satirical YouTube videos, and a female activist arrested years ago for driving. Khashoggi has also been attacked online, labeled a traitor and mercenary.
“The media and the electronic army are being encouraged to go after those people,” he said. “It’s very Orwellian.”
50 Comments on "Saudi Arabia’s Revolution From the Top Has No Place for Critics"
Ghung on Wed, 11th Oct 2017 4:27 pm
What’s next? “How to beat your wife after she wrecks the car”?
Boat on Wed, 11th Oct 2017 5:57 pm
Name the governments that support “inciting public opinion”.
makati1 on Wed, 11th Oct 2017 6:15 pm
“The kingdom has become “more repressive than in the past,”
Same could be said for the FSofA. The serfs have to be controlled by any means possible. Propaganda, brainwashing, dumbing down, more laws, more swat teams, more pat downs, etc.
As the West and their wannabees approach collapse, all kinds of gestapo tactics will become normal. The door will close on the gulag. Wait and see.
MASTERMIND on Wed, 11th Oct 2017 9:22 pm
All the Saudi death cult understands is DEATH TO AMERICA!
joe on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 8:37 am
Saudi Arabia bans freedom of worship. Having a Christian cross in your possession gets you a jail sentence. Fuck the Saudis, driving for muslim women is nothing, how bout the slavery, the beheadings, the poverty, the suppression of the Shia minorities, support for 9-11, support for isis, antisemitism, etc etc etc
Hello on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 8:44 am
If there was ever a good use for a nuclear device it would certainly be at mekka during the height of the mohamed dick licking ceremony.
Cloggie on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 8:53 am
Saudi Arabia bans freedom of worship. Having a Christian cross in your possession gets you a jail sentence. Fuck the Saudis, driving for muslim women is nothing, how bout the slavery, the beheadings, the poverty, the suppression of the Shia minorities, support for 9-11, support for isis, antisemitism, etc etc etc
Good news! Now we have an excuse to abolish that “freedom of religion” baloney, that only leads to parallel societies and in the end armed conflict. Way to go, camel jockeys!
bobinget on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 2:39 pm
A clerk counts stacks of Chinese yuan at a bank in Beijing, China. Yuan pricing of oil is coming, economist says
2:24 PM ET Wed, 11 Oct 2017 | 02:09
China will “compel” Saudi Arabia to trade oil in yuan and, when this happens, the rest of the oil market will follow suit and abandon the U.S. dollar as the world’s reserve currency, a leading economist told CNBC on Monday.
Carl Weinberg, chief economist and managing director at High Frequency Economics, said Beijing stands to become the most dominant global player in oil demand since China usurped the U.S. as the “biggest oil importer on the planet.”
bobinget on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 2:58 pm
Death of petrodollar story, goes unnoticed.
All was decided when Venezuela priced crude in yuan.
China not only captured a market for it’s goods
but also 18% percent of known petroleum.
Now, clearly China is going after #2, Saudi Arabia’s
arms trade. KSA buys billions in weapons to protect oil fields. KSA has aligned itself with Russia and China.
All the while President Moron is selling off the family jewels, (SPR) threatening Iran and NK causing these two into each other’s arms.(allies)
I never thought America could lose petrodollar power. That was before President Moron.
Friday PM gives his ‘bad cop’ ‘launchtime’ speech.
Oh, no ‘good cop’ in sight.
Davy on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 4:48 pm
How dead will that pesky petrodollar be bob? Somehow I think there will be plenty of life to it. I seriously doubt China will compel KSA to accept yuan from US and other western buyers. China is not their only market. No one else is in position at this point to completely eliminate the dollar as a significant reserve currency. Bob what is it about you old guys and the hype? You remind me of old women in sewing circles yabbering.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 6:35 pm
Hello, do you have a death wish? How would destroying a church make a difference? Would nuking the Vatican end Catholic domination? Would nuking Salt Lake City end the Mormons? Nope! Please explain your assertion.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 6:42 pm
Davy, you give no refs to back up your claim. Meanwhile the Chinese are moving ahead by putting pressure on KSA and spending their $1,400,000,000,000+ USDs and their US trade surplus and their interest from the fed as fast as possible before they become toilet paper.
The world is moving away from the dollar as a trade currency. The US has gone insane and the rest of the world is in the process of putting it in a financial straitjacket. 2020 could see the USD as just another currency in a basket of larger currencies. I hope so.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:03 pm
Madkat do you really think America will let everyone just move away and leave them to suffer and die alone? Sorry we are not like you old man. Let the nukes fly then President Trump. Live free or die…Asian Carps!
Davy on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:07 pm
Mad kat, my point is please explain how dead is the petrodollar, what are the mechanics of that death, and what comes next. Please explain the reality of the petrodollar and what it means to have a reserve currency status. How are they related and unrelated? You can’t even start that discussion because you consider it dead already and the US quickly losing reserve currency status when that is just not the true picture. You are one of the old men living in a fantasy world of conjecture and emotions. You have little understanding of global finance. For you it is all about death and complete destruction instead of a process with nuances. What a hobbled mind.
Davy on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:09 pm
“Hello, do you have a death wish? How would destroying a church make a difference? Would nuking the Vatican end Catholic domination? Would nuking Salt Lake City end the Mormons? Nope! Please explain your assertion.”
Mad kat, do you have a death wish? How would destroying a nation make a difference? Would nuking the US end American domination? Please explain your assertions?
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:12 pm
MM, do you really think the US has a choice? I don’t. The US is not ‘exceptional’. Nor is it ‘indispensable’. It is a failing country. It has finally hit that vanadium steel wall called ‘the rest of the world’. All of it’s so called allies are backing away, one by one.
As for nukes flying, whose? The Russian nukes are less than 15 minutes from the US mainland. Chinese nukes are not much farther way. Any attempt by the US to uses nukes would end with the US covered in radioactive glass. Do you really want that?
If you want to suicide, do it alone, please.
Davy on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:17 pm
“vanadium steel wall called ‘the rest of the world’”
How cute
“Any attempt by the US to uses nukes would end with the US covered in radioactive glass. Do you really want that?”
You do don’t you mad kat! Deagel dot com bum is what you are and to think you have a big family in the US you could give a shit about. SAD
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:38 pm
Madkat you are delusional once again. Your fantasies about the US collapses and the far east than rising like a phoenix from the ashes are totally insane. Your sweatshops will go under without the dumb american consumer buying all your junk. This collapse will be global and you are not going to like downsizing. and the US public will be looking for someone to blame. And that is when the nukes start to fly worldwide. Live free or die! Bitch!
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 7:47 pm
MM & Davy, sitting in a tree… Birds of a feather… MM, have you moved to Davy World? lol
Both of you are so blind to reality that you cannot begin to see the real world. You deserve what is coming in huge measures. Be patient.
Davy on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 8:08 pm
Mad kat, can’t you answer the questions I left for you? I could care less about your feelings about me.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 9:17 pm
Davy you can’t reason with someone so insane. To think the strongest nation on earth will collapse and his shitty island where kids swim in garbage will rise from the rubble is just total fantasy.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 9:18 pm
Davy, can’t you understand English? Apparently not. You don’t want to understand my answers. I have no ‘feelings’ about you, just a clear view of where you are going and the consequences of your denials. All very bad.
I can do nothing about the road to destruction the US is on, nor can I do more for my family there than to help them prepare for the future. They have been invited to live here with me. That is their choice, not mine. We all live and die by our choices.
I have made mine and I think it was the best one of my options. I do not regret it in any way. The US is swirling into the whirlpool/cesspool of chaos, violence and economic collapse. Why would anyone want to stay if they can leave? It is like evacuating ahead of a hurricane. Certainly not any sane person would stay if they didn’t have to.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 9:23 pm
makati1
Why would anyone want to stay if they can leave?
Because the strongest country will be the last one to collapse and feel the pain..And lets not ignore the children swimming in garage rivers in your country.And it hasn’t even collapsed yet.
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 9:29 pm
Muddymind, perhaps you need to rethink that “strongest nation on earth”comment? How is that so?
It IS the greatest DEBTOR NATION on earth, bar none.
Its infrastructure gets a “D” grade making it a 3rd world country in that respect.
It depends on other countries for it’s necessities.
It has a currency that is becoming the wastepaper the planet.
Its government is insane and so corrupt it makes Al Capone’s mafia look like a Sunday school bake sale.
It’s military has not won a war in 70 years.
Its newest plane (F35) is a boondoggle that doesn’t even work.
Its navy cannot steer a ship without hitting another in open seas.
Its people are so brainwashed, they cannot even see the above faults.
And on and on.
Keep sucking that propaganda koolaid.
GregT on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 10:34 pm
“Davy you can’t reason with someone so insane.”
Now that certainly is a bit convoluted. The plot thickens……
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 10:44 pm
Muddymind, The US is going to be the first not the last. It is already collapsing or haven’t you been paying attention? Probably all that propaganda you gobble down 24/7/365 has fogged your brain? Your diploma of graduation from the US School of Brainwashing is in the mail. LOL
makati1 on Thu, 12th Oct 2017 10:47 pm
BTW: Have you ever swam in the US rivers? I have. I shared it with turds floating along side me from the local town sewage system that didn’t work. I would not think of swimming in one now. They are all so full of chemicals and drug reside, not to mention that same sewage, that they are a real health hazard. But you sre blind to such reality, obviously.
Davy on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 4:35 am
We are fine mad kat. You are all about drama without substance. You live in a third world country without health insurance on a small social security stipend. If your Filipino boyfriend kicks you out you will not be living in the Westernized part of Manila. Your fantasy farm is just that fantasy. You are never there. This must be why you make obsessive comments daily that are really pukes about how bad my life is. It is not that bad and most of what you say is extreme examples. We are declining and decaying. We are losing freedoms but not as bad as you say. You say this because your life is so bad and your decision to leave a poor one. You left a large family and what could have been a good life. Now you curse the US daily in remorse. Sad
makati1 on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 5:05 am
You are the drama queen, Davy. You get all emotional when anyone happens to point out the US failures and ongoing collapse. Name calling and putdowns of a 12 year old is your trademark. Hundreds of your posts are proof.
You love to make up a lifestyle for me that is pure fantasy. You have no idea what my position, my relationships, or my security is here as I am not about to tell you or anyone else on the internet. All you think you know is my location and age. Even that may be fictitious as you cannot prove it. I am more secure and happy than you can ever be in the US police state. For all you can know, I might be sending this from the farm. Many of my posts have been.
There is no “good life” left in the US for the serfs, just growing chaos as it all falls apart. My family can come here anytime. That is their choice. If your kids live long enough to move out. You too will understand why I didn’t see my kids often even when I lived in the US. Put one on California and one in Florida and one in Boston and one in Virginia and try to have a “happy family situation” with them. I saw them every few years at best. I now chat with them regularly, just as I did in the US. Over the internet. Even with cams, like being there.
Yes, it is as bad as I say in the US, you just don’t want to see it. You have no freedoms. You have no privacy. You have a crumbling country that is soon going to be put out of its misery by the rest of the world. Your government is dysfunctional, corrupt, immoral and led by the biggest laughingstock in the world.
My comments start with ‘Makati1’ so you can ignore them anytime.
Davy on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 5:26 am
I name call you and one other mad kat because you do not deserve respect. You earn respect and until you quit painting a false image of my life I will disrespect you so get used to it. Your buddy does it but you never say anything to him about it because he does it to people you don’t like. This is typical of your hypocrisy and binary reasoning.
I don’t make up things about you mad kat. I infer something based upon the wealth of personal data you dump and have dumped here. I have studied you closely and know many things about you because you are such a braggart and love talking about yourself. Now you are trying to deny what you have written. It is all on this blog and can be accessed by a google search. You are not sending anything from the farm because you are never there. You boasted how you didn’t have internet there. You were proud of that and now you try to wiggle out of that boast. You are here every day which means you Manila condo above 20MIL people not your idyllic jungle farm you boast about.
How many times do I need to tell you mad kat we are fine. Life is getting worse but it is in the P’s too you are just in denial. The US is here to stay so get used to it. It is wht it is but you live in a fantasy world. I wonder if your family knows how you talk about their death by NUK war. You preach that constantly.
I told you 5 years ago mad kat. I am here to discredit your false caricature of my life. I am fighting your lies and extremism. Get used to it. I have told you multiple times you can moderate and we can live together peacefully but you have no interest. This is the problem with extremist. Extremist like you and others here are only concerned with themselves. They have no interest in compromise. They have no respect for others. You are a horrible person and I will make sure you know it.
makati1 on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 6:24 am
Davy, I do not want your respect. You are a nothing. Those who know me, respect me. You appear to be a delusional old man who may or may not be married and may or may not live on a farm. Who cares? You started this and cannot help yourself by ignoring my posts.
“…until you quit painting a false image of my life>” Sound familiar Davy? Look in the mirror. You are constantly making up a fantasy life for me that is extremely off base from reality. YOU are the one with the problem, not me.
Life here is getting better for all Filipinos. Do some research, Davy. (http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/asian-newspapers.htm) GDP is increasing at 6-7% annually. Incomes are going up. longevity is increasing. Even relations with China are improving. We have been typhoon free this year. They went north to Taiwan and Japan.
If you are fighting the negatives about the US, you will lose just as the US is losing in every area. Stress is not good for your heart.
“You are a horrible person and I will make sure you know it.” YOU cannot make me do anything, Davy. Better men than you have tried in OCS and failed. They at least had some power over me as I wanted to get my commission. YOU have ZERO power over me. All you make me do is laugh at you and your attempts to make me angry or upset. Not going to happen.
Hello on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 7:03 am
>>> Life here is getting better for all Filipinos
If you’re rock bottom…. the only way is UP…
>>>> the US is losing in every area
Everey area? Really? Let me guess. The phillipines are therfore winning in every area, right?
makati1 on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 7:28 am
Hello, many here make more than you do. Money is not everything. Close family ties, a nice climate, freedom, good health, etc. ALL are on the decline in the US. ALL.
Hello on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 8:36 am
>>>> Close family ties
As the financial situation for families deteriorates in the West (and no doubt it does), families will grow back together.
>>>> a nice climate
Are you saying AGW only affects the USA negatively, but spares the phillipines?
>>>> freedom
Yes, thanks to 3rd world imports, also from the phillipines.
>>>> good health
The top 10 health issues for the philippines:
Malnutrition, illigal drug use, tuberculosis, malaria, ….
Let me take a guess:
You are alone in a foreign, weird place. You desperately want to belong, to be loved. But you are not. You are this white, rich american. The locals don’t like you, because you’re this old white man with money, where they have none. But they tolerate you,because you have money. Always this balancing act of hate/love. This guy sure doesn’t belong here, but we like his money.
So you hide in your condo, spending 8 hours/day on this forum trying to rationalize your move to a 3rd world hole. That is hard. Because you have to lie to yourself so hard about how great the 3rd world hole is vs. how bad the west is. It makes you miserable. Every day.
You would like to go out, sit in cafes and play cards or games with the locals, fluently discussing political issues. But you can’t, your language skills are not good enough. So the few times you go out you discuss how bad america is and how happy you are to be in the 3rd world. It makes you sick and makes you hate yourself. But that’s the only way to keep going.
Having burned all bridges to the west and not having enough money to move back, you are stuck and you hate it.
I don’t envy you, you sure maneuverd yourself into a touch spot. I’m sorry.
GregT on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 10:30 am
An old saying comes to mind;
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 10:35 am
You left a large family and what could have been a good life. Now you curse the US daily in remorse. Sad
Great point Davy. He obviously has buyers remorse and is now taking it out on innocent americans online. what a pathetic person.
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 10:40 am
Well Put Hello.
Mad kat is not arguing with us he is arguing with himself.
Davy on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 10:46 am
MM, he tries too hard which is a dead giveaway for deeper issues. I am glad others have spoken up becuase this is not healthy for a balanced portrayal of the issues we are concerned with.
Cloggie on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 10:56 am
“Mastermind” opines: Great point Davy. He obviously has buyers remorse and is now taking it out on innocent americans online. what a pathetic person.
The irony is that ALL regular posters here have all a refuge:
GregT – “in the sticks” Canada
Davy – Italy, Missouri
Makati – Manila
All three apparently acknowledge that things could go terribly wrong in North-America.
But tell me “mastermind”: what is your refuge? Because if you do not have one, you can’t be possibly claim the somewhat over-the-top qualifier “mastermind”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T4jssO9t-0
Are you prepared for CW2/WW3?
Because THAT is coming.
Forget this peak oil/CC baloney, that is not acute any time soon.
Davy on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 10:58 am
My wife is being naturalized as a US citizen today. We are in an auditorium full of people of many nationalities. People are well dress and excited about their new home. I agree with many of you with how bad this country has become but it is not as bad as many extremist portray things.
Cloggie on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 11:03 am
So you hide in your condo, spending 8 hours/day on this forum trying to rationalize your move to a 3rd world hole. That is hard. Because you have to lie to yourself so hard about how great the 3rd world hole is vs. how bad the west is. It makes you miserable. Every day.
Don’t exaggerate hello:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlMHNIwuqls
This could be “makati”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC9J7ucFBic
Btw: what made you leave beautiful Switzerland and travel to halfway third world country USA?
Hello on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 11:22 am
Ok Clog,
so you’re suggesting mak is actually leaving in makati, which is essentially a wannabe USA? It gets weirder by the minute.
I would travel to the USA for an In-n-Out burger anyday, I don’t need more reason than that.
http://www.in-n-out.com/
Cloggie on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 11:47 am
so you’re suggesting mak is actually leaving in makati, which is essentially a wannabe USA? It gets weirder by the minute.
I have no reason to doubt his story. You? There is nothing irrational for an American retiree to move to a country where your modest retirement dollars will buy you 2-3 times more than in the US.
I myself am contemplating selling my paid-off house in booming Eindhoven, 10 minutes cycling from the Hightech Campus…
https://e52.nl/en/why-netherlands-is-the-new-silicon-valley/
…in booming Holland. Housing prices have increased in the big cities with 25% over the last 2-3 years and an end is not insight (#GoldenDecade). I need five years until retirement but selling now would mean I could “retire” now, meaning working for myself rather than for clients (writing IT and energy books, blogs, program). Selling now and relocate to some small Dutch picturesque but economically “backward” town…
http://tinyurl.com/yccocya8
…is a very attractive prospect. The 100k difference is enough to bridge five years until retirement money comes in.
Visited this house from the year 1300 on offer for 125k euro a few weeks ago:
http://tinyurl.com/yacv8y6b
The prospect said euphemistically that the house needs some renovation.lol
Hello on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 11:54 am
>>>>> There is nothing irrational for an American retiree to move to a country where your modest retirement dollars will buy you 2-3 times more than in the US
No problem with that. However having to show with every 2nd word how much you hate your ‘home’, seems a bit weird to me, don’t you think?
Hello on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 12:07 pm
Clog, cheap prices you got in NL, no doubt about it. Practically even the shabbiest shack will set you back half million in Switzerland. The place is so redicilously overpopulated with all them international (= people that don’t belong here) millionairs. It’s disgusting.
Apneaman on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 1:38 pm
Davy, congratulations to you and your family. I never got or wanted citizenship, but I was a legal resident. There should be an extra award for just getting through the paperwork – what a nightmare.
GregT on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 1:55 pm
“However having to show with every 2nd word how much you hate your ‘home’, seems a bit weird to me, don’t you think?”
Nowhere near as weird as somebody else thinking that arguing with him is going to change his opinion. Or even weirder, when those arguing with him have no first hand experience or knowledge of his personal situation, and they need to make bad stuff up in their own minds, to help themselves believe that Makati’s decision was wrong.
People don’t normally get all defensive over things that they are sure about.
Davy on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 2:04 pm
Thanks Ape, it was a paperwork nightmare.
MASTERMIND on Fri, 13th Oct 2017 5:08 pm
Mad Kat your president is a clown. And if he wants trouble with the USA or tries to humiliated us. Your little island will be crushed.
Philippines president Duterte threatens to expel EU ambassadors in 24 hours
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/13/philippines-president-duterte-threatens-to-expel-eu-ambassadors-in-24-hours?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1507900106
Cloggie on Sat, 14th Oct 2017 6:57 am
Raqqa almost completely taken over by the Kurds from ISIS.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/hunderte-syrische-is-kaempfer-verlassen-al-rakka-a-1172913.html