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Russia begins airstrikes in Syria, but West disputes targets

Russia begins airstrikes in Syria, but West disputes targets thumbnail

Russia launched airstrikes Wednesday in Syria, sharply escalating Moscow’s role in the conflict but also raising questions about whether its intent is fighting Islamic State militants or protecting longtime ally, President Bashar Assad.

President Vladimir Putin called it a pre-emptive strike against the militants, and the Russian Defense Ministry said its warplanes targeted and destroyed eight positions belonging to extremists from the IS group, also known as ISIL or ISIS. It did not give specific locations.

But French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told lawmakers in Paris: “Curiously, they didn’t hit Islamic State. I will let you draw a certain number of conclusions yourselves.”

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter also said the Russians appeared to have targeted areas that did not include IS militants and complained Moscow did not use formal channels to give advance notice of its airstrikes to Washington, which is conducting its own airstrikes in Syria against the Islamic State group.

(AP) Defense Secretary Ash Carter speaks to reporters during a news conference at the…
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He said the Russians should not be supporting the Assad government and their military moves are “doomed to fail.”

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Washington was prepared to welcome Russian military action in Syria as long as it is directed against IS and other al-Qaida affiliates, but would have “grave concerns” if it conducted strikes against other groups.

The U.S. and Russia both agree on the need to fight the Islamic State but not about what to do with Assad. The Syrian civil war, which grew out of an uprising against Assad, has killed more than 250,000 people since March 2011 and sent millions of refugees fleeing to other countries in the Middle East and Europe.

Russia’s first airstrikes in Syria came after Putin met Monday with President Barack Obama on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly in New York, where they discussed Moscow’s military buildup in the country. Obama had said the U.S. and Russia could work together on a political transition, but only if the result was Assad’s departure.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the Russians’ new action “calls into question their strategy, because when President Putin and President Obama had the opportunity to meet at the U.N. earlier this week, much of their discussion was focused on the need for a political transition inside Syria.”

(AP) In this image made from video provided by Homs Media Centre, which has been verified…
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Putin, who is Assad’s most powerful backer, justified the airstrikes as a move to not only stabilize Syria, but also help stifle global terrorism.

“If they (militants) succeed in Syria, they will return to their home country, and they will come to Russia, too,” Putin said at a government session.

According to a statement from Assad’s office, the Syrian leader had asked Putin for the support.

Kerry said Russian operations must not support Assad or interfere with those of the U.S.-led coalition that is already attacking Islamic State targets. He called for an urgent start to military-to-military talks to prevent any kind of conflict between Russia and the coalition.

“If Russia’s recent actions and those now ongoing reflect a genuine commitment to defeat (the Islamic State) then we are prepared to welcome those efforts and to find a way to de-conflict our operations and thereby multiply military pressure on ISIL and affiliated groups,” Kerry said. “But we must not and will not be confused in our fight against ISIL with support for Assad.”

(AP) U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, left, meets with Russia’s Foreign Minister…
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He added that the U.S. “would have grave concerns should Russia strike areas where ISIL and al-Qaida affiliated targets are not operating,” he said. “Strikes of that kind would question Russia’s real intentions fighting ISIL or protecting the Assad regime.”

Russia targeted positions, vehicles and warehouses believed to belong to IS militants, Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov told Russian news agencies.

A senior U.S. official, however, said the airstrikes don’t appear to be targeting IS, because the militants aren’t in the western part of Syria, beyond Homs, where the strikes were directed. It appears the strikes were directed against opposition groups fighting Assad, according to the official, who wasn’t authorized to discuss the Russian airstrikes publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Syrian state TV quoted an unidentified military official as saying that Russian planes targeted IS positions in central Syria, including the areas of Rastan and Talbiseh, and areas near the town of Salamiyeh in Hama province.

IS controls parts of Homs province, including the ancient town of Palmyra. Homs also has positions run by al-Qaida’s affiliate in Syria, known as the Nusra Front. Both groups have fighters from the former Soviet Union, including Chechens.

(AP) Russian President Vladimir Putin holds a meeting with senior government officials at…
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Genevieve Casagrande of the Institute of the Study of War, said the airstrike on Talbiseh, “did not hit ISIS militants and rather resulted in a large number of civilian casualties.”

“If confirmed, the airstrike would signal Russian intent to assist in the Syrian regime’s war effort at large, rather than securing the regime’s coastal heartland of Latakia and Tartous,” she said.

Khaled Khoja, head of the Syrian National Council opposition group, said at the U.N. that Russian airstrikes in four areas, including Talbiseh, killed 36 civilians, with five children among the dead. The claim could not be independently verified.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said claims of civilian casualties were part of an “information war … which, it appears, someone prepared well.”

U.S. State Department spokesman John Kirby said a Russian official in Baghdad had told U.S. Embassy personnel in the Iraqi capital that Russian military aircraft would shortly begin flying anti-IS missions in Syria. The Russian official also asked that U.S. aircraft avoid Syrian airspace during those missions Wednesday. Kirby didn’t say whether the U.S. agreed to that request.

The U.S.-led coalition will continue missions over Iraq and Syria, Kirby added.

The U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity said there were no conflicts with the Russian strikes, and they had no impact on coalition missions, primarily in the north and east.

Earlier Wednesday, Russian lawmakers voted unanimously to allow Putin to order the airstrikes in Syria, where Russia has deployed fighter jets and other weapons in recent weeks. The Federation Council, the upper chamber of the parliament, discussed Putin’s request for the authorization behind closed doors in a debate notable for its speed.

Under the constitution, Putin had to request parliamentary approval for any use of Russian troops abroad. The last time he did so was before Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in March 2014.

Putin insisted Russia will not send ground troops to Syria and that its role in Syrian army operations will be limited.

“We certainly are not going to plunge head-on into this conflict,” he said. “First, we will be supporting the Syrian army purely in its legitimate fight with terrorist groups. Second, this will be air support without any participation in the ground operations.”

Putin also said he expects Assad to talk with the Syrian opposition about a political settlement, but added he was referring to what he described as a “healthy” opposition group.

Putin and other officials have said Russia was providing weapons and training to Assad’s army to help it combat IS. Russian navy transport vessels have been shuttling back and forth for weeks to ferry troops, weapons and supplies to an air base near the coastal city of Latakia. IHS Jane’s, a leading defense research group, said last week that satellite images of the base showed 28 jets, including Su-30 multirole fighters, Su-25 ground attack jets, Su-24 bombers and possibly Ka-52 helicopter gunships.

Worried by the threat of Russian and U.S. jets clashing inadvertently over Syrian skies, Washington agreed to talk to Moscow on how to “deconflict” their military actions. Last week, Carter had a 50-minute phone call with his Russian counterpart — the first such military-to-military discussion between the two countries in more than a year.

Putin’s strategy in Syria could bring bloody blowback at home, said Andrew Weiss, an analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

“Putin has “basically created a giant recruiting poster for the global jihadist movement. He’s put Moscow on the map for jihadist groups who have been operating in Syria,” Weiss said.

 

myway ap



54 Comments on "Russia begins airstrikes in Syria, but West disputes targets"

  1. makati1 on Wed, 30th Sep 2015 10:40 pm 

    Of course they are disputing the targets. Why? Because they are the correct ones and they are the terrorists that the US is supporting to take down Assad … lol. Russia is telling the US, “Join us or lose both ways.” Simple checkmate.

    As for the last two paragraphs, pure propaganda bullshit from one of the US’ huge stockpiles of the same. The US has the largest terrorist bulls-eye painted on all US assets across the world. Not to mention alienating most of it’s ‘allies. The sign on to China’s new bank by most of them, against the US’ wishes, is proof.

  2. BC on Wed, 30th Sep 2015 11:54 pm 

    Putin is perceived by many in the West as an authoritarian, dictatorial figure, and he is (he told the Russian-Jewish oligarchs to get f&$king rich but stay out of “Russian” [not Jewish] politics, but some didn’t, and he exacted the price); but what the self-satisfied analysts don’t say is that the man is in an arguably desperate gambit for the survival of the Rus people’s culture and civilization, caught between the last-man-standing contest between the West and China for the remaining resources on a finite planet.

    The US, UK, and Europe should be embracing Putin and Russia’s resources, acknowledging the historical context that Hitler perceived Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus as resource colonies inhabited by “filthy Slavs”.

    Putin is 5’7″ of thousands of years’ worth of Rus/Slavic resilience and resistance to invasions of Huns, Mongols, Norse, and all other comers. He’s the kind of SOB you want on your side in a street rumble. The West are idiots (they’re not, but risking the timing of a geopolitical gambit) not to recruit him to “our team”, as it were, in the last-man-standing contest against China and so-called Radical Islam, including our “ally”, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the ME oil emirates.

  3. Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 12:06 am 

    Russia has also placed it’s S300 air defense system and air to air combat aircraft in Syria. Oh BW ISIS and the rest of the anti-Asaad rebels doesn’t have an airforce. Russia also warned Israel to stop striking the Iranian and Syrian military and engaging in attacks that weaken Assad. Russian troops haven’t fought along side Syrian troops against IDF troops since 1974.

    http://www.debka.com/article/24913/Putin-warns-Israel-off-targeting-Iranian-targets-in-Syria-

    Russian Marines have joined with Hizballah Special Forces and Syrian troops in attacks on ISIS.

    USA will stomp their feet, but that’s about it.

    Oh and Russia told USA to get their planes out of Syrian air space

    http://www.debka.com/newsupdatepopup/12872/Russia-says-US-warplanes-must-immediately-exit-Syrian-airspace

    LMFAO

    The Retarded States of America! Whatever will they do now?

  4. MrNoItAll on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 12:38 am 

    BC — I could be wrong of course, and who really knows. But my guess is that Putin IS part of the team, just following the script and playing his role. The drama is being played on the international stage, with the whole world watching. Seeing Putin play the big man is solid gold for Russian morale and nationalistic pride. Plenty of Chinese are admiring their fearless leader a little more with the staged speeches and decorum he got on his American trip, though the American press could hardly have cared less — it was for Chinese consumption. Obama doesn’t mind playing the overwhelmed and ineffective lame duck POTUS, not when the goal is to hold the world together as long as possible. The leaders of the big countries and economies NEED to stick together, they NEED to be singing from the same songbook, because like it or not they are intricately entwined by economics and finance — they stand or fall together — and they all share one common enemy, which would be the disgruntled masses who must be kept in line. It won’t work forever of course and probably not even for much longer, but they’ve done a pretty decent job of holding an otherwise dead-in-the-water global economy together for seven or eight years, at least.

  5. makati1 on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 1:30 am 

    MRNO, the Russians don’t have ‘disgruntled masses’. There are many countries that don’t. The Philippines is one of them. The Russians don’t need the West and especially the US. It’s ‘pivot’ East should prove that. There is no ‘script’ as far as Russia and China are concerned. None. If you want to believe there is, go ahead.

    Both know they have the power to take down the US anytime. The US is up against an immovable wall this time and is huffing and puffing against those houses of brick, not straw, without success.

    Ask Hitler who beat their asses in WW2. Not the West. Ask Napoleon who kicked his ass out of Russia? Not the West. The West has not won anything since at least WW1.

  6. MrNoItAll on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 1:45 am 

    mak — You’re in la-la land. Russians don’t have disgruntled masses? Chechnya, Ukraine, numerous other nationalistic entities all under the Russian umbrella brought there by force, ancient animosities brewing constantly, dreams of separation from Russia alive and well. And the Philippines don’t have disgruntled masses??? Are you joking? Epic poverty, slums as far as they eye can see, government corruption and scandal the norm, bribes paid everywhere to grease the wheels for those who can pay, burning resentment in the Muslim areas and frequent bloody incidents (beheadings, kidnappings, mini-massacres, etc…). Your statement above is full of factual error. No disgruntled masses in Russia or the Philippines — ha! Thanks for the laugh. Will you also boldly state as fact that there are no disgruntled masses in China??? Make my day!

  7. rockman on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 6:27 am 

    “…also raising questions about whether its intent is fighting Islamic State militants or protecting longtime ally, President Bashar Assad.” I don’t see where there’s any question if you rephrase that statement correctly: ‘… its intent is fighting Islamic State militants AND protecting longtime ally, President Bashar Assad.” By definition that’s what allies do. Particularly when it’s an ally that’s providing you a naval base in the heart of a critical region…much like the US naval base in Saudi Arabia.

    For some reason our MSM/govt wants to frame this as something other then BAU for Russia.

  8. Davy on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 7:11 am 

    This is what I think might happen and it will be a good thing at least for Russian and US relations. Nothing binds to war mongering people together better than a common war! I have to say Putin is brilliant. He is the most able and competent statesman now or would it be better to say war pig. I say that gritting my teeth because he is also a killer and a crook. I might add it is leaders of Putin’s caliber that are the most dangerous in dangerous times like today. In any case in this situation I am hoping Putin’s actions draw the US and Russia closer and lessen the dangers of WWIII.

    Overheard At The Pentagon: “Right Now, We Are Putin’s Prison Bitch”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-30/overheard-pentagon-right-now-we-are-putins-prison-bitch

    Those who frequent these pages are well aware of what’s happened to Washington’s strategy in Syria over the past several weeks. Russia’s dramatic move to enter the fray has left the US trapped, as the West attempts to hang on to a narrative that’s no longer convincing even to a largely ignorant public.

    Now, the only thing left to do is either stand down and let Moscow do as it pleases in support of the Assad regime, or else get on board and acquiesce to the inevitable.

  9. Davy on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 7:12 am 

    MR, I am glad someone else is laughing at dog paw and his ridiculous narrative.

  10. joe on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 7:51 am 

    America can’t play games with Syria anymore. This could end up destabilising Europe. Don’t forget the gas chambers guys.
    Peace is more important than Assad. The alternative to Assad is Islamic State and genocide for the alwites and shiites in Syria, the will have to flee to Europe as well and they will fight Sunni muslim Europeans then.

  11. GregT on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 10:56 am 

    “America can’t play games with Syria anymore. This could end up destabilising Europe.”

    Too late. Mission ( already ) accomplished.

  12. Plantagenet on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 12:27 pm 

    Looks like Putin has outsmarted Obama again.

    Of course, thats a classic example of damning with faint praise.

  13. radon1 on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 4:27 pm 

    Yeah, Pu is shining again. Moreover, using this opportunity to make sure that his generals don’t fool him and the expensive hardware does work as they report. What a smartie.

  14. GregT on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 4:58 pm 

    Russia kills US-backed Syrian rebels in second day of air strikes as Iran prepares for ground offensive’ – live updates

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11903702/Russias-Vladimir-Putin-launches-strikes-in-Syria-on-Isil-to-US-anger-live-updates.html

    And who would those Syrian Rebels be that the US is backing in an attempt to overthrow yet one more sovereign state?

    Guide to the Syrian rebels
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24403003

    Assad may be no angel, but the US supported rebels are magnitudes worse. Someone needs to stand up for the Syrian people, instead of bombing them back into the stone age and forcing them to flee their own country, all in the name of regime change. It didn’t work in Libya, it didn’t work in Iraq, and it sure as hell isn’t going to work in Syria.

    Putin and the Russians are doing the right thing. Take the islamic radicals out of the equation, and pressure Assad to step down diplomatically. Promoting civil war in no way stands up to the basic principles of freedom, justice, liberty, or democracy.

  15. apneaman on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 5:01 pm 

    How hard is it to outsmart Obama and the easily rattled noecon crew? All you have to do is be patient and let them keep shooting themselves in the foot. Patience is anathema to the American mentality. The retards in Washington are like spoiled rotten ADD brats throwing one temper tantrum after another and making things worse with each one. A goat would look like a genius pitted against them. It will be forgotten any minute now that yet another 3 day national screaming and blaming fest is underway after yet another school slaughter – There’s somethin the US is #1 in hands down.

  16. Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 5:29 pm 

    It’s not hard to outsmart ideological zealots. The Russians play chess and they look at the whole board when they’re doing it. They’re pragmatists. Not the keepers of a sacred flame. ‘merika is lead by fanatics. GWB was all about the freedom agenda, lol, but democracy in Egypt didn’t get the leaders they hoped for so now it’s back to supporting dictators. Allies won’t take the word of American diplomats because they don’t know what moron will be in the White House next or what it will mean to them. So the world is gonna start learning to get on without the White House.

  17. Davy on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 5:50 pm 

    “Putin and the Russians are doing the right thing”

    I guess war is ok if it is Russian troop and planes.

  18. GregT on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 8:10 pm 

    Russia is fighting radical Islamists Davy. The same radical Islamists that DC backed in their supposed bid to take out Assad. The real goal here however, as it has been all along, was to destabilize the entire ME. How many more millions must be brutally massacred in their childish game of full spectrum global domination? The world has had enough of this crap.

    The Pentagon’s Strategy for World Domination: Full Spectrum Dominance, from Asia to Africa

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentagons-strategy-for-world-domination-full-spectrum-dominance-from-asia-to-africa/5397514

  19. Davy on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 9:02 pm 

    Greg, war is war so I guess Russia is in the same league as DC now. Our usual daily criticisms should include Russia for killing innocents and having their armies where they don’t belong. That would be fair I assume. Let’s skip the “full spectrum of global domination” and just focus on the killing because killing is killing whether by Russians or Americans same difference. After we agree on that we can graduate upward to the more abstract concepts of global domination.

  20. makati1 on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 9:24 pm 

    In other news:

    http://orientalreview.org/2015/09/29/asian-nato-like-project-to-be-stopped-ii/

    “A Russian-Japanese Breakthrough:

    It might seem far-fetched at the moment, but if Russia and Japan reach some sort of diplomatic breakthrough (possibly as a result of years-long secret negotiations a la the US-Cuban ones), then it would change the entire calculus for the US’ P2A. This is because Japan is the main pillar of the whole strategy, since it alone is the only country in East and Southeast Asia with the capital and military potential to present a sizeable headache for China, and it’s also the only state with a leadership history (Fascist Japan) that stretches into both theaters. If it were to reach some sort of understanding with Russia and then begin trying to play it against the US (the same hand that Israel is trying to play at the moment, but for different reasons), then it would create a multitude of strategic uncertainties for the US and throw the P2A into jeopardy. Therefore, this is the absolute last scenario that the US wants to see happen, and it won’t hold back any option to prevent this from occurring. Keeping Russia and Japan apart is just as, if not more, important to American grand strategy at the moment than keeping Russia and the EU divided, and if this state of affairs changes, then there’s no doubt that it’ll elicit a fundamental change in the US’ position and unexpectedly throw it on the defensive in a region where it had long taken its dominance for granted.”

    Could happen. Should happen, and soon.

  21. GregT on Thu, 1st Oct 2015 11:09 pm 

    “killing is killing whether by Russians or Americans same difference.”

    Absolutely agree Davy. Killing is killing, and killing is wrong. Where I do draw the line however, is in the motivation behind the killing.

    In this particular example, one country is attempting to plunge Syria into chaos and civil war with no regards for the local population, while the other country is trying to hold Syria together and mitigate a refuge crisis. One country is acting offensively, while the other is acting in defence. Both have openly advocated for a change in the Syrian government. One has supported a radical element within the population with guns and bombs, while the other believes that it is up to the Syrian people themselves to self determine their own destiny through the democratic process.

    We have all seen the results from US foreign policy in both Libya and Iraq. Millions displaced and/or murdered. If ousting Assad is truly the goal, then put a 50 million dollar bounty on his head. He wouldn’t last out the month. Instead of bombing the entire country back into the stone age. Absolutely sickening, immoral, and unjust.

    And also, lets not forget where IS came from in the first place. Anybody watching “shock and awe” unfold, should have seen this coming. And don’t try to tell me that the Pentagon wasn’t smart enough to figure it out before hand. They knew exactly what they were doing.

  22. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 1:44 am 

    special “evil motherfuckers” supplement, now with added mendacity

    https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/special-evil-motherfuckers-supplement-now-with-added-mendacity/

  23. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 1:56 am 

    Iraq: A Russian Alternative To Washington’s Bumbling Anti-IS Campaign

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/

  24. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 2:14 am 

    Syria army, allies prepares for major offensive in north; Russia bombs US-trained rebels

    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Oct-01/317252-hezbollah-preparing-to-take-part-in-big-ground-operation-in-northern-syria-lebanese-sources-to.ashx

  25. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 2:29 am 

    Nov 2013 (pre-Maidan!): Ukraine Deputy has proof of USA staging civil war in Ukraine”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=y9hOl8TuBUM

  26. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 3:00 am 

    Putin to those who supported “Arab Spring” in Middle East: “Do you realize what you have done?”

    – See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2015/09/putin-to-those-who-supported-arab-spring-in-middle-east-do-you-realize-what-you-have-done.html/#sthash.UzCtuJYV.dpuf

  27. GregT on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 3:20 am 

    Good find Apnea, albeit nothing that anyone that has actually been paying attention didn’t know already.

    The stage has been set. Russia has reacted responsibly. If the US keeps playing their little game of thrones, China will step up to the plate. The next war will not be fought in Europe, it will be fought in the US of A. Considering the fact that the US has not won a war for decades, and they keep picking on countries that are not capable of defending themselves, the US is in for a very rude awakening, and a humiliating defeat. My only hope is that the casualties are not in the millions. There are a ton of good Americans that are fed up to the teeth with this crap, and they don’t deserve what’s coming their way.

    One last chance America, maybe. Keep voting these idiots in, and you will pay the consequences. The world has completely had enough of this shit.

  28. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 4:00 am 

    It’s a very powerful and ubiquitous propaganda machine Greg. The biggest ever and they start them young with the pledge. It’s embedded in the press, movies, books, universities, trolls, shills and millions of true believers. Without organization of the normal ones and the backing of some elites and other prominent figures, change for the better looks unlikely. I think fascism is looking more like the front runner. It could have happened there in the 1930’s or communism.

    Fascists idolise physical strength, militarism, heroism, racial purity. They also love symbols, mythology and excessive patriotism. They do not like intellectualism and are intolerant of the other. Does that sound familiar? Like any demographic or region of the US?

    We are the voice of the new, embattled White minority!

    https://www.stormfront.org/forum/

    http://gatesofvienna.net/

    There’s a shit load of them.

  29. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 4:14 am 

    More censoring from the corporate state.

    Apple Suddenly Banned an App That Maps U.S. Drone Strikes

    http://mic.com/articles/126003/apple-bans-dronestream-metadata-app-that-maps-drone-strikes-in-us

  30. Davy on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 6:48 am 

    The facts remain boys that Russia supported a brutal regime for decades and the Assad family was nearing their terminal stage of being a despotic nepotistic leadership of a minority sub grouping of ethnicities dominating a multiethnic country. Iran was also increasingly a part of this. Iran played a significant role destabilizing the whole region in her proxy war with Israel. Of course the US is the dominant disruptive force in the mid-east. I am not stupid nor have I ever tried to sugar coat US policy. You guys know this.

    You guys don’t want to admit the other players in the nastiness or you want to greatly diminish the responsibility of these other players. You want to have all the problem rest on the shoulders of the US. Do you think I don’t agree with your examples of the US and her policy? We hear this daily and redundantly ad nausea. My point is Russia, Iran and Assad are very much as bad as the US in this equation. This is something the anti-Americans can’t stomach. You guys want blood and you want to take no prisoners. The US must be made the great Satan. These other players cannot be a part of the discussion or it lessens your messages effectiveness.

  31. joe on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 8:39 am 

    Do you think God will be able to tell the difference between Americans and Russians? 2 sides, same coin.

  32. GregT on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 10:27 am 

    A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm

    A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the “Clean Break” report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel’s security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on “Western values.” It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and the containment of Syria by engaging in proxy warfare and highlighting its possession of “weapons of mass destruction”.

    “According to the report’s preamble,[1] it was written by the Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000, which was a part of the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies.

    Former United States Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle was the “Study Group Leader,” but the final report included ideas from Douglas Feith, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser, and Meyrav Wurmser.[4]’

    An October 2003 editorial in The Nation criticized the Syria Accountability Act and connected it to the Clean Break report and authors:

    To properly understand the Syria Accountability Act, one has to go back to a 1996 document, “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” drafted by a team of advisers to Benjamin Netanyahu in his run for prime minister of Israel. The authors included current Bush advisers Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. “Syria challenges Israel on Lebanese soil,” they wrote, calling for “striking Syrian military targets in Lebanon, and should that prove insufficient, striking at select targets in Syria proper.” No wonder Perle was delighted by the Israeli strike. “It will help the peace process,” he told the Washington Post, adding later that the United States itself might have to attack Syria.

    But what Perle means by “helping the peace process” is not resolving the conflict by bringing about a viable, sovereign Palestinian state but rather, as underscored in A Clean Break, “transcending the Arab-Israeli conflict” altogether by forcing the Arabs to accept most, if not all, of Israel’s territorial conquests and its nuclear hegemony in the region.[15]

    Sidney Blumenthal criticized the report, writing:

    Instead of trading land for peace, the neocons advocated tossing aside the Oslo agreements that established negotiations and demanding unconditional Palestinian acceptance of Likud’s terms, peace for peace. Rather than negotiations with Syria, they proposed weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. They also advanced a wild scenario to redefine Iraq. Then King Hussein of Jordan would somehow become its ruler; and somehow this Sunni monarch would gain control of the Iraqi Shiites, and through them wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria.[12]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm

  33. GregT on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 10:46 am 

    “The US must be made the great Satan.”

    Not the US Davy. The Israelis. Your country has been hijacked by a corrupt and ruthless group of individuals who have America by the balls as they control the central banks and the US military industrial complex.

    You really need to remove your red white and blue sunglasses and stop being blinded by the propaganda. Their plans go much further than this even. The US itself is going to be taken down. Their plans don’t include you, or the United States of America. They want a one world government, and a one world banking system. They hold no allegiance to your country.

  34. BobInget on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 11:06 am 

    “Putin is playing ‘the long game’ quite well.
    All will soon become clear to all at the next OPEC meeting.

  35. Davy on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 11:22 am 

    Greg, this is the problem, you will not acknowledge my agreement and acknowledgement of the sins of the US establishment if I includes anything that deviates from the anti-American message. I will not cow tow to anti-American agenda that demands complete subjugations to a line of thinking that blames “ALL” global problems on the Americans. There is no room for maneuver here with the anti-Americans. The anti-Americans mentality is “you are either with us or against us”. The anti-Americans will not accept a balanced approach. If you show balance by drawing in other variables and contributing factors you are labeled as a flag waivers or wearing red white and blue glasses.

    The world is not black and white and there is rarely clear winners and losers especially in our interconnected global world. You will find it extremely difficult to argue with my reasoning. It is common sense and criteria for any level of negotiations. I am acknowledging your point of view. I am not dismissing your arguments. What I am doing is saying you cannot have it both ways. You can’t claim the US at fault and not acknowledge others in the complicity of global problems. This is what so many anti-Americans do. The reason this is done is for maximum shock and awe effect of the anti-American message.

    We must fight the worst of the US establishment. My problem is once the message becomes part of a strictly anti-American agenda basically everything and anything is game. Everything become a target including me, my family, my community, my land. I am being bullied by multiple people on this board daily. I am saying hey, wait, your shit stinks just like my friend.

  36. GregT on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 11:52 am 

    I am not anti American Davy. I am anti the people that have hijacked your country. The people that are putting American lives in harms way to further their own geopolitical agendas. The people that are stripping you of your own constitution. I find it sad that so many others here have tried to get through to you with the same sentiments, yet you continue to believe that we are attacking you, your family, your community, and your land. Sorry davy, but it is you, and people like you that are allowing this shit to happen. Your country is going down the shitter Davy, because people have forgotten the true meaning of patriotism. Nobody is attacking you, they are telling it like it is. The USA has become the world’s worst terrorist organization, and is the single biggest threat to world peace.

  37. Davy on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 12:09 pm 

    I stand by my comment with no further explanations.

  38. GregT on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 12:39 pm 

    “Greater Israel” – ZIONIST PLAN FOR THE MIDDLE EAST
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2VQBdA8x58Fks7Cfxb1qhafArXpo3qJr

    Tracking the roots of Zionism and imperial russophobia
    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2015/02/13/515416tracking-the-roots-of-zionism-and-imperial-russophobia/

  39. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 12:51 pm 

    Bull shit Davy on the fair and balanced act – again. You just don’t like any criticism plain and simple. Rattles your amygdala and you come rushing to the defense like a patriotic little solider every fucking time. Can’t shake you life long indoctrination. Tribalism gone wild as was intended by the social engineers. Guess what? It ain’t going to stop unless the empire goes home. Since expansionism is what the country was founded on and has never stopped, I guess you better get use to hearing it because your censorship lobbying is not working. You want fair and balanced treatment for the unfair and unbalanced empire? Your in denial about how unfair and bloody the whole thing has been. I actually have more respect for the might makes right crowd because at least they are honest. We did it because we could.

  40. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 1:03 pm 

    More Anti-Russian Bias at the NYT

    “Exclusive: The anti-Russian bias of the New York Times is hard to miss as it consistently puts Moscow’s actions and intentions in the worst possible light, in stark contrast to the warm glow that usually surrounds military actions by the U.S. and its “allies,” as Jonathan Marshall observes.”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/09/30/more-anti-russian-bias-at-the-nyt/?utm_content=buffer0f442&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

  41. onlooker on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 1:15 pm 

    Yes as an American I also have to concur with Greg and AP. The US is a monstrosity and that has nothing to do with the people, we are just like everybody else in the world trying to survive. http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm
    Here is a link to a comprehensive detail of the selling out of America to corporations and banks. The account dates back to the time of the Civil War and how US (district of Columbia) became in essence a corporation. So our beloved country is NOT ours but theirs. Notice how this time period also corresponds with the time of the flourishing of the Industrial Revolution and the rise of the Robber Barons. Since then US has acted like an Empire in everything but name. So I applaud those who reveal this for in doing so they are letting us take back our country from the Oligarchs and the rule of the Plutocracy.

  42. Davy on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 1:24 pm 

    Most people are balanced Ape Man. In this situation it is not even balance. I am giving the anti-Americans 80/20. That is not even good enough. It must be all or nothing with you guys. That my friend is extremism. The silent majority agrees with me I am sure.

    What is happening is you guys are using the same tools as those you hate. Your hate and resentment has you in the same mud as the evil ones. You complain about flag waiving when it is you waiving the flag of anti-American extremism.

  43. joe on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 4:24 pm 

    As usual the truer nature of some people emerges the ‘patriot lite’ model of following in the face of the obvious. Until last week ISIS was the biggest threat to the west and its interests, right? Now along comes Russia and now the whole so called allience changes it’s attitude. The west did nothing when they burned a man alive on the Internet in the biggest event of media-porn this century. Yet Putin is suddenly the problem? Using al qaeda and ISIS in proxy wars only says that the US has not learned from 9-11 and the Muslims are pawns as usual. Now the US has succeeded in drawing in Putin because he has nothing left to lose and the US has no reliable battlefield allies unless it directly employs al nusrah front jihadists who are al qaeda and work for Ayman al Zawahiri.
    What a joke this is. Israel will not last another 50 years the way it’s heading.

  44. GregT on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 4:39 pm 

    “So our beloved country is NOT ours but theirs. ”

    Your beloved country is not alone onlooker.

  45. apneaman on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 5:52 pm 

    HBO and Snapchat are Actively Working with the U.S. Government to Create Propaganda

    “In 1953, Joseph Alsop, then one of America’s leading syndicated columnists, went to the Philippines to cover an election. He did not go because he was asked to do so by his syndicate. He did not go because he was asked to do so by the newspapers that printed his column. He went at the request of the CIA.

    Alsop is one of more than 400 American journalists who in the past twenty‑five years have secretly carried out assignments for the Central Intelligence Agency, according to documents on file at CIA headquarters.

    The history of the CIA’s involvement with the American press continues to be shrouded by an official policy of obfuscation and deception.

    – From Carl Bernstein’s 1977 article: The CIA and the Media”

    more

    http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/10/01/hbo-and-snapchat-are-actively-working-with-the-u-s-government-to-create-propaganda/

  46. shortonoil on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 6:19 pm 

    Sounds like book? I think it was called 1984?

  47. Davy on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 6:43 pm 

    Joe said “As usual the truer nature of some people emerges the ‘patriot lite’ model of following in the face of the obvious.” Sure Joe does that mean that Putin is right and the US wrong in Syria as other anti-Americans say? Does that mean the people Putin kills with his wehrmacht is ok because he is Russian? That’s what I am talking about friend and that’s what the anti-American don’t want to discuss. If that is patriot lite so be it. It is reality Joe. Russians are killing Syrians just like Americans. In fact Russians have been helping Assad kill Syrians for decades. Yet, that is ok because Putin is not American and Russians are right. American Killing is different from Russian killing apparently. What a crock of shit.

  48. onlooker on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 7:33 pm 

    Yes of any place in the world, the ME is where you can least single out anyone. Everyone has a stake in the ME and what is going on there. Russia has kept selling arms to Syria even while Assad was indiscriminately bombing Syria and its people back to the stone age. This right now is a free for all and a microcosm of the entire planet and how the big players are reacting to the uncomfortable reality of the world we live in now and are heading into in the not far off future.

  49. Davy on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 7:54 pm 

    Well put onlooker. Personally I think this is a brilliant move by Putin but very risky and expensive. Yet, killing is killing so Russian bombs are little different from American ones. I for so long heard on this board how Russia was peace loving and the evil Americans war mongrels. Now that narrative has been put to bed tucked in with blood. The ME is a quagmire once entered one can never leave in one piece. The US is a prime example and now Russia will join us in a race to the bottom.

  50. makati1 on Fri, 2nd Oct 2015 9:02 pm 

    Onlooker, AP, GregT, Joe, I stand and applaud your efforts, but you are beating against a titanium steel wall. The farmer from Missouri was double indoctrinated and it is in his 1% blood. His case is hopeless so I just skip his comments, like I do some others here who will never change until that 2X4 of reality smacks them in the face. I enjoyed your rebuttals and assumed what he said from your replies. Nothing has changed.

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