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China takes control of North Sea oil drilling

China takes control of North Sea oil drilling thumbnail

China has become the largest crude oil operator in the North Sea despite boasting that it uses deep-water oilrigs as strategic weapons.

The scale of Chinese growth in the region meant that Britain handed about £2 billion in tax breaks to one state-run oil company last year, analysis by The Times has shown.

China National Offshore Oil Corporation (Cnooc), which is controlled by the Communist Party in Beijing, runs two of the North Sea’s biggest oilfields. Nexen, a Cnooc-owned company, is responsible for extracting almost 200,000 barrels a day in the area, more than 10 per cent of output.

China has moved to dominate British oil production in what one expert described as an exercise in “soft power” as Beijing expands its global role. The strategy has been pursued despite a slump in the price of crude oil from about $115 a barrel in 2014 to $50 today.

The nation is also planning to deploy thousands of troops at its first overseas military base, in Djibouti, east Africa, putting it on a potential collision course with the United States, which has a military headquarters near by.

Security experts have already raised concerns about China’s interest in Britain’s energy infrastructure. Last month it was revealed that China General Nuclear Power (CGN), the partner in the £18 billion Hinkley Point nuclear power station deal, was facing nuclear espionage charges in the US.

Cnooc and CGN are both majority owned by China’s Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, which is under the “direct control” of the State Council, referred to as Beijing’s highest government authority. CGN’s board of directors comprises members of the Communist Party of China, US legal documents say.

A decade ago Cnooc was blocked from buying a US oil company over national security concerns. No concerns appear to have been raised in Britain when the company bought Nexen, a Canadian oil operator with a large stake in North Sea oil, in 2012. Cnooc has also drawn criticism for its operations in the South China Sea, which China has claimed for itself despite an international tribunal ruling to the contrary.

In 2012 Wang Yilin, Cnooc’s former chairman, told Communist Party superiors that “large-scale deep-water rigs” of the sort used in the disputed region were China’s “mobile national territory and a strategic weapon”.

According to Cnooc’s annual report for last year, UK government tax cuts for oil production were “mainly” responsible for the difference between a tax charge of £2.5 billion in 2014 and a tax credit of £361 million a year later. When George Osborne cut North Sea taxes as chancellor last year he specifically reduced levies applied to newer fields. After that he cut the overall tax bill from 50 to 40 per cent.

“Our income tax credit changed 114 per cent”, the Cnooc report states, “mainly because the UK government decreased the combined income tax rate on North Sea oil and gas activities from 62 per cent to 50 per cent [which] resulted in a one-time reversal of deferred tax liability.” Lower oil prices also helped to drive down Cnooc’s income tax bill to minus 18.2 per cent. Other North Sea oil companies can access the tax cuts but several run at a loss, meaning that they cannot benefit from the tax break.

Cnooc will not receive the full benefit of the £2 billion break this year. The company’s accounts reflect the total value of the tax cuts to Cnooc now and in the future.

Experts said that they were puzzled as to why China would want to invest in the North Sea as oil prices fell. “North Sea oilfields are running down and becoming increasingly expensive for oil producers,” Jeffrey Henderson, professor of international development at Bristol University, said. “In narrow terms, the state overseas oil company will be pouring money into the region for no particularly obvious gain.”

He added that Cnooc may have been attracted to Nexen’s other assets in Canada and suggested its involvement in the North Sea may be an attempt by China to increase its corporate “soft power”. He added: “It may be part of a general strategy to boost the credibility and legitimacy of Chinese companies operating within Europe.”

In response to questions, a Cnooc spokesman referred The Times to the company’s annual report.

TheTimes



47 Comments on "China takes control of North Sea oil drilling"

  1. Cloggie on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 8:05 am 

    Not really that relevant since North Sea oil is on the way out and the North Sea in a decade or so transformed in one giant offshore wind park, complete with artificial South China Sea style maintenance airstrips:

    https://youtu.be/NI0sbiCNXtA

    Let the Chinese bury North Sea oil business.

    “Communist Party in Beijing”

    The 2016 Chinese communists are the least communist in world history:
    1. they don’t want to take over the entire world
    2. they have a capitalist system

    China-2016 is authoritarian nationalist, not unlike Germany 1933-1939. The difference is that they are too big to be destroyed by those who destroyed Germany.

    The new One Worlders are to be found in neocon circles and New York, but not in Trump Tower.

    Go for it, Donald!

  2. makati1 on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 9:07 am 

    Interesting! I guess we will have to wait and see what the future brings.

  3. dooma on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 9:41 am 

    Mak, as you probably already know, given your geographical location, that we are experiencing the start of the Asian century.

    The Chinese are going on the biggest buying spree in modern history.

    Paying cash for assets/commodities makes a refreshing change from a super power who manipulates governments or just plain bombs the bejeezus out of countries to exploit their natural resources.

    Our ridiculously short-sighted politicians down under are selling off state-owned assets to them faster than a Persian rug company going out of business (has anyone ever paid full price for a rug?).

    Recently, Chinese companies a.k.a the Chinese Government had a massive dummy spit when, due to public backlash, A Federal Minister blocked the sale of a significant portion of our electrical infrastructure.

    The have bought up everything from our utilities, natural resources, dairy factories and farms. They are cashed up and are pushing our bubble real estate market to dizzying heights. With the average price for a very average house in a middle-class suburb, exceeding $900,000 AUD. Very similar to Vancouver so I have read.

    How long this buying spree will continue is anybody’s guess….

  4. rockman on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 10:27 am 

    And once more a writer incapable of doing a 30 second web search: “China takes control of North Sea oil drilling. China has become the largest crude oil operator in the North Sea despite boasting that it uses deep-water oilrigs as strategic weapons.” First, the Brit govt controls drilling in its segment of the N Sea: the Chinese can’t take a piss out there let alone produce oil without a govt permit.

    Second, those DW rigs give China ZERO LEVERAGE: the N Sea is not a Deep Water trend. From Wiki: “On average, the North Sea has a depth of only 94 metres.” IOW about 300′. The break over from the Gulf of Mexico shelf and the DW is 600′. The important distinction isn’t the type of drilling rig but is that most NS fields have been developed with fixed platforms and not the very expensive DW production systems.

    As far as why China would move into the NS when oil prices have fallen? Because they didn’t: I wonder if this f*cking moron even knows this deal was cut in 2012 when prices were high? And why do the Chinese still own it? Da!. It’s because oil prices have fallen and there are no buyers. Why does this writer think the govt put such a nice tax break on NEW fields on the table: because companies were rushing into the region to take advantage of those low oil prices? LOL. And why a tax break on existing production? As this idiot points out those old fields are expensive to operate: if low oil prices make the Chinese fields noncommercial they abandon them and the Brits would lose that revenue…probably forever.

    Third, understand that the Brits aren’t paying the Chinese anything…they are giving them a tax break. And tax breaks only benefit s the Chinese if they make a profit: if they lose money they don’t pay taxes anyway. But they still pay the Brits royalty whether they make money or not.

    And lastly: the asinine SPIN that the Chinese paid $13 BILLION for Nexen because they wanted its N Sea production. They had no choice: they bought the company…not its NS production per se. The bulk of Nexen’s assets weren’t in the NS. The bulk of its value was in the Canadian oil sands play. Which is why it took 7 months negotiating with the Canadian govt to close the deal in Feb 2013…when oil prices werer still high.

    Bottom line: this story is trying to hype a situation that actually began 3 years ago as if it’s something new that has just developed. As we sometimes wonder: why was this crap posted on the site? Maybe it was done to test our resident fact checkers to see if they are paying attention. LOL.

  5. brough on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 10:47 am 

    I hope CNOOC are going to pick-up the tab for de-commissioning of rigs. So much scrap metal as far as I can see.

  6. rockman on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 11:31 am 

    brough – No concern on that matter. The Chinese company bought a company that a ready had P&A bonds in place. Just like in the US offshore: you can’t operate without a sh*tload of bonds.

  7. Anonymous on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 1:01 pm 

    Brit Red baiting, still butthurt over Hong Kong maybe?

    “China National Offshore Oil Corporation (Cnooc), which is controlled by the Communist Party in Beijing”.

    Wrong, the Chinese gov’t owns CNOOC, not the ‘communist party in Beijing’. Its state-owned, not ‘communist owned’, whatever that is supposed to mean to the times.

    From wiki(right near the very top too)

    “The company is owned by the government of the People’s Republic of China, and the State-Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council”

    Doesn’t say a thing about the ‘communist party in Beijing’ owning Cnooc. Gotta wonder, does the times preface articles about Shell, Exxon, Chevron, as ‘Capitalist cartels controlled by the for-profit-oil party in texas’, or calif, or w/e?. Probably not. Since the times statement isn’t even factually true, I wonder why the writer tried to bring up the false association. Oh, I know, it’s because accuracy is not a requirement to work in the western MSM.

    As for the rest, rockman covers it well.

  8. makati1 on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 6:08 pm 

    dooma, you see the correct picture. China is buying up resources all over the world, even in the US, with those almost worthless USTs and USBs. They see the dollar’s end coming and want to own real stuff, not worthless paper. (Good advice for all of us.) Even if 50% of those purchases slip[ away later, the Chinese are still ahead. Those paper dollars will not even be good butt wipes soon.

  9. makati1 on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 7:07 pm 

    In other news, a shooting WAR is coming … BIG time!

    “On a related note, against many Members of Parliament and several ministers, the German Bundeswehr (army) has declared Russia as an enemy nation. This is akin to a declaration of war. The head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Russian State Duma, Alexei Puschkow, has posted the Twitter message:

    ‘The decision of the German government declaring Russia to be an enemy shows Merkel’s subservience to the Obama administration.’”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/brewing-collapse-of-the-western-monetary-system-german-government-warns-of-an-upcoming-catastrophe-tags-russia-as-an-enemy-nation/5542181

    “Pentagon Threatens to Down Russian and Syrian Planes”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/pentagon-threatens-to-down-russian-and-syrian-planes/5542255

    “If ordinary Germans were not traumatized enough by this weekend’s shocking official announcement that they should prepare to stockpile several days of food and water “in case of an attack of catastrophe” as part of the country’s revised “Civil Defense Concept”, then the latest news from German press agency DPA, which cites a confidential document prepared by the government according to which the government is considering “bringing back nationwide conscription in times of crisis”, such as situations in which the country needs to “defend NATO’s external borders,” will surely put them over the edge.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-23/preparation-crisis-germany-consider-reviving-military-service-ahead-potential-nato-d

    And on and on… War is coming people, and it will come to the continental US this time. Are you prepared?

  10. makati1 on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 8:24 pm 

    The Netherlands may be waking up.

    “Those sanctions are considered being dropped by at least one European nation, the Netherlands, reconsidering its position in Europe as well as possibly resetting its relations with Russia. The Dutch, as reported by Pravda.ru on August 19 are considering a referendum to leave the EU, as Britain did with the Brexit vote, and also to drop the economic sanctions against Russia. Geert Wilders, the leader of the Dutch Freedom Party spoke about this upcoming referendum and mindset on 8/19 as such:”

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/the-situation-in-ukraine-is-serious-we-dont-rule-out-a-full-scale-russian-invasion_08232016

    It’s a beginning.

  11. dohboi on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 8:36 pm 

    anyone else having trouble getting into the forum right now?

  12. dooma on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 8:57 pm 

    Doh, first thanks for the graph. On your question about the site, I did have trouble logging in at about midnight last night. That is Australian Eastern standard time. It kept saying that the site was down/closed for maintenance and asked me for my credentials every time I left the site and came back.

  13. dooma on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 8:58 pm 

    Sorry I mean the forum…

  14. rockman on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 9:05 pm 

    dooma – I also had trouble last night logging on. But OK this morninhg.

  15. onlooker on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 9:24 pm 

    been having trouble all day. Logs me off haphazardly

  16. Harquebus on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 9:25 pm 

    Thank you Rockman.
    I always appreciate your comments.

  17. Rick Bronson on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 10:06 pm 

    Chinese has taken control of not only the North sea drilling, but also the electric car market.

    They sold 688,000 Low speed electric vehicles in 2015.

    http://plugineurope.com/2016/08/china-low-speed-electric-vehiclelsev-industry-report-2016-2020/

  18. ghung on Tue, 23rd Aug 2016 10:20 pm 

    I’ve been having problems for a couple of weeks; comes and goes. Site is either unavailable, “sql database errors”, and “account limits/logged-in limits exceeded” kind of thing. Site is either having server issues or under attack (DOS?).

  19. Cloggie on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 2:35 am 

    Everybody has these problems.

  20. Cloggie on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 3:35 am 

    test

  21. Cloggie on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 3:37 am 

    Makati, when even DNA-level Europe haters like the English merely voted 48-52 for Brexit, you can bet your last euro that the Dutch, enthusiastic Europe founders and always at the core of the Europe project and the perfect mediators between Germany and France, will NOT vote for Nexit, no matter how much Geert Wilders would love to see that happening.

    I personally have always been a passionate supporter of European unification as the only way to eventually get rid of American overlordship, but to my horror I had to ackowledge that until so far, the EU is incredibly subservient to Washington, to the tune that they are risking to let themselves being sicked in a war against Russia on their own soil by the US, using Ukraine as a useful idiot, comparable to how the Europeans let themselves being sicked into a war against Germany in 1939, by the US & USSR, using Poland as the useful idiot.

    The truth is that, apart from Putin, Europe has zero independent leadership, apart from Marine le Pen and now perhaps the AfD in Germany (newcomer). And of course Geert Wilders in Holland, who probably is fake. He presents himself as an blond Aryan God, but in reality is half Dutch, 25% Indonesian and 25% Jews, is married to an Hungarian Jewess, has an Israeli flag in his party quarters in Parliament…

    http://www.joop.nl/nieuws/vaderlandsliefde-enorme-israelische-vlag-op-kamer-pvv-fractie-den-haag

    …and worst of all refuses to say who is funding him, but it is obvious that he gets his money from US-Jewish sources like Pharma giant Pfizer and neocons like Pamela Geller…

    http://pamelageller.com/2015/05/florida-event-featuring-geert-wilders-canceled-for-fear-of-islamic-jihadists.html/

    …and Alan Dershovitz. Wilders makes nationalist rightwing noises but is using that as a cover to attempt to destroy the EU on behalf of his buddies in Washington.

    But it is true, most Europeans are sick and tired of these anti-Russian sanctions. Most vocal: Italian government and German industry.

    But one cretin is blocking everything and does everything the Soros bunch is ordering her to do: Angela Merkel. The outright invitation to the third world to come to Europe is purely the work of Merkel-Soros.

    Until the very last second before the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 she was a dedicated follower of her Moscow overlords; now she is likewise a dedicated slimy follower of the US.

    It is telling that earlier this week, Merkel, Hollande and Renzi gathered on the island of Ventotete, where the communist Spinelli is burried and dedicated promoter of a USSR-style Euro-federation. They were there to honor Spinelli, signaling what their intention is: destroy nationalism (through third world immigration) and create a new centralistic monster, like the USSR of former fame or like the US is now.

    The strategy of the West and its ruling sanhedrin is to first destroy Putin and reincorporate Russia into the West like between 1991-2000 and finally overthrow the Chinese government. The Russians and Chinese know this all too well and so do India, Iran and after the failed Erdogan coup now Turkey as well.

    The counter strategy of Eurasia must be to call Washington’s bluff and provoke a shooting war. If America can’t defeat North-Vietnam in a shooting war, not even with the aid of South-Vietnam, they can’t defeat Russia and China combined in a conventional war.

    Furthermore I am saying that Merkel and co will not be able to mobilize Europe against Russia, but instead will provoke an uprising by the European political right. Likewise Washington won’t be able to mobilize America against China and Russia. The Trump voters will secede from Washington.

    The coming WW3 will lead to a Euro-Siberian confederation and the rise of global super power China, that will incorporate Australia and a chunk of the North-American Pacific coast and a new Amerikaner nation will rise between Apalachians, Rockies and Gulf of Mexico. The entire east coast will “Brasilianize” and most of the west coast, Arizona and New Mexico will return to Mexico like before 1820.

    Just like every human has about 80 years or so to live, modern history shows that every geopolitical bully likewise has a century or so to dominate the rest:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-29/nothing-lasts-forever-world-bank-chief-economist-calls-end-dollar-reserve-currency

    We have had the 19th British century and the 20th US century (AngloZionist century really). The age of Anglosphere is comng to an end, although we probably still speak English in three centuries time, just like Latin is still taught in European schools, 16 centuries of the demise of the Roman empire.

    The century of Anglo-Soviet progress, of globalism, of political correctness (“Jewish Sharia”) of economic growth is over.

    What we are going to see is the rise of reactionary archaism (ISIS is a perfect indicator and canary in the coal mine a not a singular aberation), the return of nationalism (le Pen, AfD, Trump, Putin), even the return of the czar is possible with Putin as the first (ceremonial) czar after 2023, when he retreats as president.

    We are heading for a multipolar world and the end of globalism. The center (Washington, UN) won’t hold.

  22. vtsnowedin on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 5:01 am 

    Same problem here. Other sites working OK so it is at peakoils end of things.

  23. claman on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 5:52 am 

    clogg, I and others feel that russia ( no matter if its leadership are tsars, commies or modern oligarchs) should have reasonable borders, and the chrimean/east ukraine line is of old age(200 yearsat least) and is an essential part of the old russian defence line from the Ice sea in north to the black sea in the south. Look at the old maps here:

    http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1800/index.html

    I think that the US over reacted on this annexion, But I woul like to emphazise, that there is no goodwill in the west for other expansions that russia might want to do, and I’m thinking of the baltic states. Those borders can not be changed.

  24. joe on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 7:00 am 

    China will be passing the EU soon in gdp terms, that puts Americas allies firmly in third place and already are by allot if treated separately. The UK voted itself out of a union which is fast undermining both its fiscal and social base. Daily stories of ‘mental issues’ people are knifing and stabbing in europe, all to the sound of ‘allahu akbar’. Like it or not, its too late to cry. If we didnt want China to get strong, we should never have traded with them, but then somthing tells me this is just a scare story for right wing idiots to read.

  25. Davy on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 7:47 am 

    Come on China “GDP” by what measure and what reality? China is a facade of incongruities. Do you call ghost cities GDP? Do you call a huge dying steel and concrete industry GDP? I call it a death walk into collapse. Of any and all major powers China is the most likely to collapse under the weight of overpopulation combined with overconsumption. She will take the world down with her so the west should not be smug about this development. China is the global poison pill the west helped create in its every greater drive of greed and exploitation that is all globalism has turned out to be. Europe has many problems but nothing close to China.

  26. Cloggie on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 8:28 am 

    Joe: “China will be passing the EU soon in gdp terms, that puts Americas allies firmly in third place”

    Joe, sir, please don’t take it personally, but you are an idiot. It depends a little on who you ask, but according to UN and Worldbank the global gdb pecking order is:

    EU 18.5
    US 17.3
    China 10.4

    The EU congratuled its citizens with the overwhelming European results at Rio 2016. Medal tally:

    EU 233
    US 93
    China 54

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2016/08/18/eu-puts-itself-at-the-top-of-rio-olympics-medal-table/

    The British tried to sneer that the EU is not a country, which thank God is true, but nevertheless has a president, parliament, currency, commission (”government”), so it certainly looks like a country.

    All in all, there can’t be a shred of doubt what is the first address on this planet and what the third. Always has been (with the exception of the post WW2 period) and always will be. And once Russia will be integrated into Europe, it will be nuclear armed to the teeth as well.

    Regarding your complaint about al these Allah muppets on your territory, there is only one party responsible for that: New Labour, not the EU. In fact the ony reason why London is not yet entirely a majority Islamic city, is because of the presence of a large number of Eastern Europeans, who indeed are indirectly the result of EU legislation. In my opinion these people are too good to be in Britain and should build up their own countries.

    John Cleese on New London:

    https://youtu.be/J80AGEvRQOg

  27. makati1 on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 9:17 am 

    Cloggie, ALL of those GDP numbers are pure bullshit. No one knows the true GDP of any nation today. They are counting prostitutes, drug dealers and lemonade stands. Do a subtract of National Debt to GDP and the US is negative, not $18T or what ever fairy tale is current. Not so for the rest of the world. The Great Leveling is coming … and the West will be at the bottom of the list after.

  28. onlooker on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 9:21 am 

    We have gone this many times. What good is truly the GDP when it equally records negative events or circumstances that reflect poorly on the quality of life progress of a particular nation. Oh and yes the brute numbers are at best half the story if not taking into account the tremendous debt burden that nations, corporations and individuals now carry

  29. onlooker on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 9:24 am 

    Yes the happy medium between Davy and Mak versions is that the US and China are locked at the hip and both now present hideous economic deformities and belie any sort of solution. They will individually take down the other and in turn both will take down the world.

  30. Boat on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 9:30 am 

    mak,

    GDP numbers are not bullshyt lol. It is just one way to measure. If you gave every nation a chance to change the inputs to GDP you would probably end up with no two alike. Come up with a better measurement and report back.

  31. PracticalMaina on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 9:48 am 

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/08/24/business/ap-us-oil-lease-sale-the-latest.html

    Even worst than last years sale, only 3 cos participating, BP and Exxon were 2 of the cos. Mother natures serial rapists.

  32. Dredd on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 9:51 am 

    China takes control of North Sea oil drilling

    That is not an accurate use of the word “control.”

    Got data (Databases Galore – 15)?

  33. Apneaman on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 10:19 am 

    Boat even “The Economist” is critical of GDP, but apparently you are wedded to it until death do you part?

    The Economist explains
    Why GDP is a poor measure of progress

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/05/economist-explains-1

    The trouble with GDP

    Gross domestic product (GDP) is increasingly a poor measure of prosperity. It is not even a reliable gauge of production

    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21697845-gross-domestic-product-gdp-increasingly-poor-measure-prosperity-it-not-even

    Funny thing that this same rag used to preach GDP as if it were written in stone, which goes to show you that, like all religions, the econ-priests are just making it up as they go along. It’s a full time job for an army of PR specialists – explaining the constant moving of the goal posts (more so since 2008). Whatever feels best boat – that’s what is true.

  34. Cloggie on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 10:26 am 

    For the rare occasion I agree with Boat and not with Mak.

    Indeed, GDP is not a measure of quality of life, it is the sum of added value, measured in money. So yes, this includes transactions by drug traders, since drug traders do satisfy a demand, cigare and booze sellers, likewise. If it wise to consume drugs, cigars or booze is a different matter altogether. But GDP is not meaningless, certainly not if you use it to compare different economies.

    In the US there are 330 million people, most of whom are busy every day to add value through effort. If you add it all up, you arrive at something like $17T. This has nothing to do with debt or trade deficit or quality of life but is the combined economic output of the US, measured in $.

    This number $17T could substantialy decline if the $ will no longer be accepted as reserve curreny and as a result wages will decrease. The real wealth could very well remain largely the same. International buying power will decrease which would be good news to local industry.

  35. Cloggie on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 10:42 am 

    claman, the people of Crimea and Donbass voted with their feet and were willing to sacrifice their lives to be with Russia. Reason: they feel Russian.

    Rule number one should be self-determination.

    Russia has zero intention of attacking anyone. If Washington hadn’t taken over Kiev after Euro-Maidan, Donbass and Crimea would still be Ukrainian.

  36. peakyeast on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 12:24 pm 

    @Cloggie: They have already added the virtual value of not renting out your own house to the GDP.

    Using this kind of sense they will soon add the value of couples porking each others since they dont have to pay a hooker, the value of single people masturbation, homegrown fruits and even weeds since they can be eaten – to the GDP.

    Did anybody get richer? Did it add value to society as compared to before? Is it more correct?

    No – it is plain crazy.

  37. PracticalMaina on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 2:46 pm 

    Colorado and Washington had a lot of GPD go right up in smoke.

  38. Boat on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 4:58 pm 

    ape,

    You can find hundreds of metrics in any given area, country, city. Poverty per country, electricity use, by source, imports and exports for hundreds of products/commodities, transportation stats, disease, organ transplants, nose jobs, cremated vrs burial, on and on.
    Why do you get excited about GDP. This is just another stupid talking point.

  39. Apneaman on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 5:11 pm 

    Boat, I’m not the one who is excited. The one who can’t let it go. Many of the metrics are just smoke and mirrors at this point. All of us are participants the final round of last man standing. Most are still pretending or pretending to pretend because the alternative is your ass is out the door. I was supposed to have another 33 years of warmNfuzzy high Canadian standard of living, but methinks that ain’t going to happen. It’s even worse where you at.

    The American dream is becoming a rarity

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/the-american-dream-is-becoming-a-rarity/ar-BBvUpaR?li=BBnbfcL

    The average American family had the same amount of wealth in 2013 as it did in 1989

    “More than half of the homeowners at that bottom end of the wealth distribution were underwater on their mortgages in 2013.”

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/08/the-average-american-family-had-the-same-amount-of-wealth-in-2013-as-it-did-in-1989

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABfsIInfXgU&feature=youtu.be

  40. makati1 on Wed, 24th Aug 2016 7:03 pm 

    America ,,, the land of lies, sex and video tape … lol.

    The intelligence of Americans these days is only slightly higher than that of their pet dog. You can train them to do anything because they do not have the ability to think for themselves anymore.

    Today’s business partner is tomorrows villain.

    Social fluff is “news” and US military murder of thousands in far away countries is ignored.

    A mentally ill mafia broad is running for Prez alongside an egotistical casino owner. The “Best” out of 300+ million Americans.

    The Pentagon “loses” $8 TRILLION plus and it is ignored.

    The list of negatives is endless.

    The list of positives could be written on a 3×5 card.

    But. I am enjoying the show as the US and the wannabees self destruct.

    Pass the pretzels, pop another tab and enjoy. It’s all we can do at this point.

  41. toolpush on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 5:34 am 

    test

  42. joe on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 8:26 am 

    Bandying insults is the definition of trolling and shows a huge amount of ignorance.
    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-projected-gdp.php

    China is second. Sorry trollers.

    Spain, Ireland etc, full of ghost towns and estates. This is the symptom of the end of globalisation.

    The EU is a zombie.

  43. Davy on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 8:34 am 

    What country is not Zombie? In fact no country is a nation in the 20th century sense of the concept. Globalism has coopted nationalism at the systematic level while populations still identify with nationalism. That is an incongruity that is dysfunctional. We are going to see globalism die and regional nationalism replace it but only for a short time because even regions cannot maintain the status quo. The status quo requires a global world.

  44. joe on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 8:45 am 

    Sadly I agree. Its really not going to be a sane period for humanity.
    None of this negates the fact that China is probably the worlds second biggest economy. Grouping 27 nations together and saying to me I am stupid because that person does not understand that even the IMF treats nations seperately or for their own ignorant beliefs is really detrimental to and distracting from, the topic of peak oil and its impact.
    Some peoples greatest dream might be for a happy Europe full of enlightened people who just get along, but hundreds and thousands of dead people in the last couple of years disagree with that naive idealism.

  45. PracticalMaina on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 8:52 am 

    A slow destruction of globalization may be a good way to transition. People in marginal climate areas will starve or be forced to move, (same as it ever was) even with all of the wonderful gmos and the current fossil fuel glut. People in areas with more arable land and stability will have to get used to fewer industrial luxury’s, and will ultimately have a better shot when the climate decides to stop helping the parasites grow.

  46. PracticalMaina on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 8:53 am 

    O monsanto, way to screw over the farmers not using your product, once again. Same as it ever was. When a company made agent orange, the FDA and USDA should have never let them in the business of dealing with our food.

    http://www.ecowatch.com/monsanto-roundup-ready-soybean-1983477089.html

  47. Cloggie on Thu, 25th Aug 2016 9:50 am 

    joe says: “China is second. Sorry trollers.
    Spain, Ireland etc, full of ghost towns and estates. This is the symptom of the end of globalisation.
    The EU is a zombie.”

    Define “zombie”.

    Typical British approach: just pretend the EU does not exist. You British folks are going to find out the hard way as soon as you have signed article 50, your majority Islamic City of London is going to be strip-mined of its banking industry, that will move to continental Europe where all the action is.

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/capital-flight-london-economy-brexit-business

    I cycled recently in 14 days from Holland, through Germany and Denmark to Gothenburg. I can assure you that literally everything was in tip-top condition and zero decay, potholes, everybody driving relatively new cars, functioning 3G in the remotest places and wifi in trains. All the fields are in agricultural use. Trains departing and arriving “Mussolini style”.lol Nowhere beggars, tent cities, whatever. Nice bicyle lanes everywhere. I avoided the big cities and could verify that the country side and smaller cities are still overwhelmingly white.

    You do not know what you are saying. Europe in 2016 is richer than it has ever been before in its entire existence.

    Worrying trends do exist: dramatic lack of children being the worst. That’s what you get when you tell women that happiness is a computer, not a child. And then of course these young fighting age Islamic “refugees”, who in German trains are in the majority.

    I wouldn’t bet too much on an impending collapse of the EU if I were you. Government debt is on average lower than in the US or Japan, our trade balance is, well balanced, we produce a net food surplus. We don’t run a useless empire with ever dimishing returns that’s only good for the MIC. Real high-tech is competative (aerospace, cars, IT, construction). And then there are these Olympic medals, a good indication of the vitality of “Old Europe” (Rumsfeld) that has more than enough surpluss wealth to invest in “useles ballgames”.

    Oh and then there are in the US ever more people reorienting themselves towards their own identity and reluctantly will redefine themselves from American to “of European descent” or European for short. Just like Yugoslavs redefined themselves from Yugoslav to Serb, Croat, etc. when Yugoslavia was over. In a darkening America, European-Americans will be reminded of their underlying identity aruond the clock (“white privilege”, “go back to Europe”, etc.). European Americans (“Amerikaner”) will have nowhere else to go but to Paris-Berlin-Moscow.

    Dream on joe. In the 21st century you do not want to be an Englishman.

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