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Chaos in Libya: It’s the oil, stupid

Chaos in Libya: It’s the oil, stupid thumbnail

There is seems no end to the bad news coming out of Libya.

UN-led negotiations to unite the divided country — it has two parliaments, two governments, two militia coalitions that have been competing for control of a rapidly failing state since summer 2014 — are stalling. Fighting continues apace in Benghazi, the city that was the first to rebel against the rule of Muammar al-Gaddafi in 2011 and is now a byword for extremism. The Islamic State is growing by the day in the Gulf of Sirte in the center of the country, imposing its cruel dictates and making inroads elsewhere in the country. Criminal gangs – often the same militias that have had the run of the country since Gaddafi’s fall – are doing a brisk trade in people smuggling, sending off desperate migrants and refugees on rickety boats across the Mediterranean.

Oh, and by the way, Libya is also going broke.

That last tidbit should be surprising. Libya has Africa’s largest oil reserves and has long been an important supplier of light sweet crude, the kind made into gasoline and kerosene. It also had tons of money in both hoards of cash reserves and investments across the globe.

But the oil, which used to bring in 96 percent of the country’s income, is not flowing anymore. From a high of at least 1.6 million barrels per day at the beginning of 2011, Libya is lucky to export a fourth of that today. Militias have taken control of oil fields, pipelines and export facilities across the country. At first, they sought to extort the central government to keep the oil flowing. But since the country was divided into two rival governments, they are simply fighting to keep oil revenue from each other: you take over my oilfield, I block your pipeline. Since earlier this year, IS has jumped into the fray, simply destroying facilities to keep any government from getting its revenues — although, in the longer term, it may very well want to control the oil itself.

The little oil that still flows out of the country is worth a lot less than it was a year ago, due to falling international prices. Much less revenue is flowing into state coffers, which have been ransacked by profligate spending, corruption and outright theft over the past three years. From over $110 billion in 2013, hard-currency reserves have gone down to an estimated $60 billion – not that anybody seems to know for sure. The assets of the Libyan Investment Authority, the sovereign wealth fund that owns shares in businesses (including the Italian football club Juventus) and real estate across Europe, are being fought over in courts by the rival governments.

Those two governments – one in Tripoli, Islamist-leaning and supported by Qatar and Turkey; another in Tobruk, backed by Egypt and the United Arab Emirates – are also fighting for control of the remaining cash cows: the Central Bank of Libya, which holds the reserves, and the National Oil Company, which sells the oil and gas that is still being produced. Inasmuch as Libya still has a state, these two institutions are among the few remaining centers of technocratic know-how, and they are being torn apart. They have only survived thus far because they continue to finance both governments — including the salaries of the militiamen holding them hostage — but time is not on their side. Attempts to sell oil outside these official channels have been foiled so far, but the more messy the situation in Libya gets, the more likely these will one day succeed.

There are no easy solutions to this situation. If you stop paying the militias, they will become even more predatory. The international community is not inclined to do so, but if it were simply to seize Libya’s assets or impose an oil embargo in order to impose a peace deal, economic collapse would likely ensue. The only way out is to persuade those fighting for control of Libya’s wealth that their prize is dwindling fast and that they are better off finding a way to share it. On the current trajectory, they risk their country becoming a fully failed state, in which case they will also have to fight the Islamic State and perhaps some of Libya’s neighbors for the rich pickings of its resource wealth.

Many of the thuwwar (rebels) of 2011 have turned out to be gangsters no less brutal and corrupt than the thuggish regime they overthrew. But there are still decent Libyan patriots on both sides who can make peace and lead their fellow citizens out of a certain economic disaster that is likely to be far more deadly than the current conflict. Libya needs cash to import nearly all basic goods. Shortages are already making life difficult for ordinary people, on top of the general insecurity.

The initial step is recognizing that Libya’s civil war is only secondarily about ideology, religion or rival claims of legitimacy. First and foremost, it is about who will control the country’s oil and petrodollars. That is what Libyans and outside actors like the UN that are trying to bring peace need to focus on, so that oil and gas can start flowing again, the economy can be stabilized, and a unity government can turn to the urgent task of restoring security, fighting the Islamic State and other radicals, and building the new Libya so many were hoping for in 2011.

Reuters



42 Comments on "Chaos in Libya: It’s the oil, stupid"

  1. noobtube on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 6:13 pm 

    The world has gone crazy since 9/11.

    It has gotten crazier since 2008.

    Then 2011. Arab Spring/Occupy/Libya.

    Why did Obama authorize that?

    Nothing makes any GODDAMN sense anymore.

    Is anybody in charge? Does anyone have a real plan?

    It is like everything is just out-of-control and careening toward disaster.

    If Trump becomes President (which I think will happen)… the United States will officially be a loony bin.

  2. Newfie on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 6:18 pm 

    It’s the Islam, stupid. Everywhere there is Islam there is turmoil, strife, murder and mayhem.
    “The borders of Islam are bloody, as are its innards.”
    – Samuel Huntington

  3. GregT on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 6:23 pm 

    Libya,

    Another “Mission Accomplished”.

  4. Apneaman on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 6:48 pm 

    It’s America, stupid. Everywhere there is American “interests” there is turmoil, strife, murder and mayhem.

    The following is a partial list of U.S. military interventions from 1890 to 2014.

    This guide does not include:

    mobilizations of the National Guard
    offshore shows of naval strength
    reinforcements of embassy personnel
    the use of non-Defense Department personnel (such as the Drug Enforcement Administration)
    military exercises
    non-combat mobilizations (such as replacing postal strikers)
    the permanent stationing of armed forces
    covert actions where the U.S. did not play a command and control role
    the use of small hostage rescue units
    most uses of proxy troops
    U.S. piloting of foreign warplanes
    foreign or domestic disaster assistance
    military training and advisory programs not involving direct combat
    civic action programs
    and many other military activities.
    Among sources used, beside news reports, are the Congressional Record (23 June 1969), 180 Landings by the U.S. Marine Corp History Division, Ege & Makhijani in Counterspy (July-Aug, 1982), “Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad, 1798-1993” by Ellen C. Collier of the Library of Congress Congressional Research Service, and Ellsberg in Protest & Survive.

    Versions of this list have been published on Zmag.org, Neravt.com, and numerous other websites.

    Translations of list: Spanish French Turkish Italian Chinese Greek Russian Czech Tamil Portuguese

    Quotes in Christian Science Monitor and The Independent

    Turkish newspaper urges that the United States be listed in Guinness Book of World Records as the Country with the Most Foreign Interventions.

    COUNTRY OR STATE Dates of intervention Forces Comments
    SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.
    ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.
    CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
    HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
    IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners’ strike.
    HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
    CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
    NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
    CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
    KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
    PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
    NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.
    CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
    PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
    CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
    PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
    GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
    MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
    NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
    SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.
    NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.
    IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d’Alene mining region.
    OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
    PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone; Opened canal 1914.
    HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
    DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
    KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
    CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
    NICARAGUA 1907 Troops “Dollar Diplomacy” protectorate set up.
    HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
    PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
    NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
    HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
    CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
    CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
    PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
    HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
    NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
    MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.
    DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
    COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners’ strike by Army.
    MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
    HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
    TEXAS 1915 Troops Federal soldiers crush “Plan of San Diego” Mexican-American rebellion
    DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
    CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
    WORLD WAR I 1917-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.
    RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks
    PANAMA 1918-20 Troops “Police duty” during unrest after elections.
    HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
    YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
    GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
    WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
    TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.
    CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.
    MEXICO

    HONDURAS

    1923

    1924-25

    Bombing

    Troops

    Airpower defends Calles from rebellion

    Landed twice during election strife.

    PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
    CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
    EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
    WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
    WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.
    DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
    IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
    YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
    URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
    GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
    GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
    CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
    PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
    PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
    KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
    IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
    VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
    GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov’t nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
    EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
    LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Army & Marine occupation against rebels.
    IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
    CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
    PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
    VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
    CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
    GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
    LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
    CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
    IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba’ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.
    PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal’s return.
    INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
    DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.
    GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
    DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
    UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
    CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
    OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
    LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; “carpet-bombs” countryside.
    SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
    MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
    CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
    CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down.
    ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
    IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
    LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
    EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
    NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
    LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi’a rebel bombs barracks.
    GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
    HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
    IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
    LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov’t.
    BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
    IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.
    LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
    VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
    PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
    PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
    LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
    SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
    IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
    KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
    IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions
    LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
    SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
    YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
    BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
    HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
    ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
    LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
    ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
    SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be “terrorist” nerve gas plant.
    AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
    IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
    YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
    YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.
    MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
    UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
    AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
    YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
    PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.
    COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
    IRAQ 2003-11 Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi’ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
    LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.
    HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
    PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
    SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against “pirates” and insurgents.
    SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
    YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels
    LIBYA 2011-? Bombing, missiles, troops, command operation NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army. Periodic Special Forces raids against Islamist insurgents.
    IRAQ 2014-? Bombing, missiles, troops, command operation
    Air strikes and Special Forces intervene against Islamic State insurgents; training Iraqi and Kurdish troops.

    SYRIA 2014-? Bombing, missiles, troops, command operation
    Air strikes and Special Forces intervene against Islamic State insurgents; training other Syrian insurgents.

    http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

  5. Plantagenet on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 7:06 pm 

    You’d think Obama would’ve learned from Bush’s mistake in Iraq and not toppled the Libyan government without having a plan to stabilize the country afterward.

    But no.

    Obama = stupid = Bush

    Cheers!

  6. GregT on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 7:20 pm 

    The plan all along was destabilization Planter, and the plan was drawn up long before Obama was installed as President and CEO of US Corp.

  7. makati1 on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 8:27 pm 

    Ap, that is an amazing list and is not complete, but just a sample of US meddling. You will draw the ire of a certain flag waver here who will be denying it all and blaming it on those Chinese. LOl

    In Libya’s case, it was about saving the USD, not oil. It was that Qaddafi was setting up an alternate money system for Africa that threatened the dollar. Ditto for Saddam who was selling oil for Euros, not dollars.

    Now that it is the Chinese and Russians doing the anti-dollar program, it makes it impossible to stop. Both are nuclear armed and able to block the US.

    As for Syria, it is about a gas pipeline and blocking Russia’s economic advance into the region. The rest is inter-regional squabbling that has been going on for millenia.

    As I keep telling people, it is ALL about money and power, not democracy or freedom, even for Americans.

    Buckle up!

  8. Davy on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 8:46 pm 

    Mak, why incite discontent on the board. What is your point? I have been being nice but of course you love fights. Go suck your partner off.

  9. makati1 on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 9:03 pm 

    Davy, insanity is common in your family, isn’t it? That one percenter indoctrination is difficult to kick. LOl

    Rogers and Hamerstein wrote:

    “You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear; you’ve got to be taught from year to year.
    It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear. You’ve got to be carefully taught.
    You’ve got to be taught to be afraid Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
    And of people whose skin is a different shade. You’ve got to be carefully taught.
    You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late, before you are six or seven or eight,
    To hate all the people your relatives hate. You’ve got to be carefully taught! …”

  10. paulo1 on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 9:53 pm 

    We freed some folks.

    You can keep your country if you want to.

    After, we lead you into Democracy, from behind.

    Obama will go down as one of the worst presidents, ever.

  11. claman on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 10:12 pm 

    GregT, “The plan all along was destabilization Planter, and the plan was drawn up long before Obama was installed as President and CEO of US Corp.”

    I agree with you, and I remember to have read something about early 1990 neocom planning about how to use US powers (now that the sovjet union was gone), where they said (rather straight forward) that they wanted to destabilize the middle east. Can you help me with some sources on that?

  12. claman on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 10:20 pm 

    I meant NEOCON not neocom, but i guess you would have understood.

  13. Apneaman on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 10:35 pm 

    The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-eurasian-chessboard-brzezinski-mapped-out-the-battle-for-ukraine-in-1997/5373707

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard

    Project for the New American Century

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

  14. claman on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 11:05 pm 

    Apne, thanks a lot, exactly what I was looking for.
    Sleep tight

  15. GregT on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 11:21 pm 

    Not sure if you noticed Apnea, but the original PNAC document in your link above can no longer be accessed. I have searched all over for it but I keep reaching an ‘account suspended’ site. I had read previously that they have tried to cover this up, but I know that the document is still around somewhere.

    Claman,

    Also check out the Oded Yinon document entitled ‘A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties.’ It lays out the plan for a dominant Israel in the Middle East.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-jewish-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-beyond.html

  16. Apneaman on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 11:28 pm 

    Try this Greg

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

  17. GregT on Sun, 13th Dec 2015 11:52 pm 

    Got it. Thanks Apnea.

  18. makati1 on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 12:26 am 

    BTW: Davy, though it is none of your business, I will tell you that your ‘assumption’ stated above about my sexual preference is way off base and out of line, not to mention false. ‘Partner’ does not usually mean ‘sex’.

    I have a business relationship with my friend here, nothing more. He is unable to have kids and what he did before I became his friend is his business. He has a lot of female ‘friends’ and so do I. I just decided not to own one. Nuff said.

    When we met, he told me about his plans for the future and his inherited land. We decided to team up and build a workable farm and several businesses using his land, contacts here and income and my experience and resources. That takes time in a country where “soon” means sometime in the next few weeks or months when you want to get anything done.

    I mentioned before that I was prepping and was not relying on my SS in the future because I had OTHER income not taxable by the IRS. The best way to do that is to not have legal ties to that income. Friendship is sufficient if you know the person you are working with. A handshake is as good as a written document and always was until the lawyers got involved.

    So, keep making an ass of yourself and ‘ass’ume what you want if it makes you feel superior. I just wanted to set the record straight for the others on here that may be interested. You, I don’t give a damn about.

  19. Anonymous on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 3:25 am 

    Reuters is a dumb as dumb gets. Libya in its current state, can no longer talk about an African Union, a gold based Dinar, or anything else that threatens US toilet paper hegemony. You know what else unstable oil rich nations and their murdered leaders,cant do? They cant make deals with the empires enemies. Cant do normal business with China, Russia, or anyone else while your country is falling apart at the seams. This is empires playbook these days. If a nation starts inking big deals with countries on the US’s not-approved list, a lot of them suddenly start suffering from armed insurrection, market bombings, and all sorts of mayhem that previously, were either very rare, or simply did not exist.

    What happens next?, the US and its legions of ‘humanitarian R2P assholes’ jump in and offer to ‘help’. Help in this context means, topple the gov’t in question that refuses to give US corporations and its inept fascist military a free hand.

    Look what happened to Ukraine. Preferred to deal with Russia. Bad Ukraine(gov’t). Reward? Right Sector, a civil war, false flag airline disasters, and a PNAC installed dictator and IMF looting on en epic scale. Never mentioned in western ‘new’s’ is how China was forced to walk away from billions of dollars in projects in Libya and recall 30k workers.

    Of course, you’ll never learn a thing from western ‘news’ wires about any of this. They’ll float a story like its all about radical whatever’s fighting over oil. Sounds plausible on the surface if you pursue the matter further. And reuters certainly does not.

  20. peakyeast on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 4:34 am 

    Actually I thought it was France and Italy that made the push to oust Ghadaffi?

    At least it looked like that here in Europe.

  21. Davy on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 4:37 am 

    See Mak, you messed with me I messed back. You were looking for a fight and got it. I could give a shit about you or your personal life. I despise mean and ugly people like you who want millions to die so you can get your rocks off. I call that sick. If you want to keep this up we can get back to what we had before. I have made a big effort to ignore you and others for the sake of a clean board and you pulled my chain. It is your choice.

  22. Davy on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 6:25 am 

    Peak, thanks for reminding our anti-American crew that the US is not the only one with skid marks in their underwear.

  23. joe on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 8:14 am 

    Bush always said we need to fight em over there so we don’t have to fight em here. Can’t imagine a more honest answer, that’s how they really think. But what he really means is YOU have to fight em over there so YOU don’t have to fight em here. Get it? He is friends with ’em’ from his Carlyle Group days. If it comes to it, people like Bush find God again and convert, they are such hypocrites.

  24. joe on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 8:17 am 

    Peaky, the US sneak attacked Libya with stealth bombers, then Cameron gave Gaddafi the old two step when he got his war buddy Blair to keep him sweet while they bashed his brains in from the back, poor sucker never saw it coming

  25. MSN Fanboy on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 9:35 am 

    Davy V Makati, priceless.

  26. peakyeast on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 9:44 am 

    “Viewpoint: How Libya Became a French and British War”

    http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2060412,00.html

    “Even before allied forces unleashed a “shock and awe” barrage of cruise missile attacks against Libya on March 19, French President Nicolas Sarkozy was quick to take the credit, saying France had “decided to assume its role, its role before history” in stopping strongman Muammar Gaddafi’s “killing spree” against people whose only crime was to seek to “liberate themselves from servitude.”

    Sarkozy’s newfound concern for Libyan democracy contrasts sharply from only three years ago, when Sarkozy welcomed Gaddafi with open arms during an extravagant five-day state visit to France.”

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1983/france-libya-attack

    Personally I hold the backstabbing Frencies responsible for that unprovoked attack.

  27. peakyeast on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 9:48 am 

    Here in Denmark we also treated Ghadaffi as a celebrity: We even gave him his very own newly developed IC4 train.

    Though when looking at the IC4 trains performance I am not sure if the gift was a curse or a benefit.

  28. GregT on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 10:48 am 

    Gaddafi The Truth About Libya- Documentary

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkTUDw0mjMA

  29. onlooker on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 10:57 am 

    From what I heard Gaddafi was too chummy with his own people as in helping them a little too much, that is one of the reasons that had to take him out.

  30. onlooker on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 10:58 am 

    Impressive list AP, yes US is making the world safe for Democracy. More like subverting Democracy wherever it may be. By the way can I borrow – Plagiarize that list haha.

  31. GregT on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 11:31 am 

    Gaddafi was organizing an African Union, with a gold currency. He was a threat to the international banking cartel. That is why he was assassinated, and the main reason why Libya was destabilized.

    We can’t have people in control of their own country’s resources. That would affect profits.

  32. GregT on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 11:43 am 

    And the independent Libyan central bank was taken over even before Gaddafi was murdered.

    “Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power? It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era.”

    “This suggests we have a bit more than a ragtag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences. “I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising,” Wenzel writes.”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613

  33. peakyeast on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 12:56 pm 

    @GregT: I feel a little discouraged when I see references to conspiracies that includes the illuminati in the title of a documentary..

    Perhaps you could help me with this little mental problem of mine?

  34. GregT on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 3:22 pm 

    There are a multitude of books written on the subject peaky, and these groups have been well documented by historians.

    If you are having a problem with this, I suggest making a visit to your local library and do a little research. Truth is stranger than fiction, and history is always written by the victors.

    A brief summary:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

  35. peakyeast on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 3:44 pm 

    Yes I know very well that they have existed. And are mentioned in for exampel Zeitgeist 1,2,3, the money makers and many other documentaries.

    But these days it seems everything that cannot be explained easily is illuminati adjusting the controls.

    So I guess I just wanted you to assure me this is not some junk. 🙂

  36. onlooker on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 5:05 pm 

    Peak my two cents, first save yourself a trip to the library you can find lots of info on the Illuminati online. Second, try searching for Rothchilds. They are among the most prominent just with that search you will discover things that should very much surprise you. Like for instance how insanely wealthy that family is for starters.

  37. peakyeast on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 7:06 pm 

    @onlooker: The Rothchilds – greatest scam-artists and financial villains in the world from what I have read and seen.

    This is one family that deserves a wooden stake through its heart.

    The danish government purchased their advice during the 2008 financial crisis which probably was good, but didnt heighten my respect for my government in any way.

  38. makati1 on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 7:10 pm 

    Davy, all you have to do is NOT read anything that starts with “Makati1” LOL.

    But you need someone to pick on so you will just switch to another here whom you disagree with, eventually. Insanity is not recognized by the insane.

  39. Davy on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 7:20 pm 

    Mak, we were doing fine until you spit. Just drop it and move on. You make me sick to my stomach so don’t bother me.

  40. onlooker on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 7:41 pm 

    You got that right Peak. In fact their is something I read which truly surprised me, If I may indulge myself a bit. Here is in summary the story. During Napoleon’s war with Europe in the battle of Waterloo, the Rothchilds sent a secret agent to monitor the war, he reported back to Rothchilds that Napoleon was losing, at which point the Rothchilds put into motion a devious and cunning ploy to trick the stock market at that time into believing that Napoleon was winning, so that London/Britain got in on the assumption that Napoleon would win. Well everyone followed suit, but of course the Rothchilds knew better and did the opposite so that ended up making a fortune while everyone else lost a fortune. Guess what shorty after, the Britain came to the Rothchilds to help them with a loan or loans, the Rothchilds accepted on the condition of Britain allowing them to install the first Central Banks in London. The rest is history has these banks are now located in virtually all countries and have amassed countless revenue for the Rothchilds.

  41. GregT on Mon, 14th Dec 2015 7:53 pm 

    “So I guess I just wanted you to assure me this is not some junk. :-)”

    Watch the documentary, and make up your own mind. I didn’t learn anything from it that I didn’t already know.

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