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swingbolder
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:11 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 66
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I am 40, and I pretty much grew up with the notion that the future was going to be fucked, so I pretty much stopped paying attention to the gory details. I was around eight during the oil crisis of '73, the population explosion was forever in the news, and in the fourth grade I remember freaking out when it was revealed that the ozone layer was thinning.
Also, the 70s were the time when all those bleak armageddon movies came out about how awful things were going to be in the future due to pollution, overpopulation, mutated viruses etc. Movies like Soylent Green.
So, you just live your life.
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cornholio
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:48 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 145 Location: MO, USA
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I am 37 and remember the conservation push of the 70's. When that urgency evaporated it seemed that the "shortage" had been overstated (actually we just accepted dependance on Middle East oil) and that the time of oil production decline would be far off in the future... I was in college/ med school/ residency / working like a fiend for the next couple of decades, and CNN and the local paper really provided no reminder of shortage looming. It wasn't until I cut back my work hours that I had time to look online for more info (while surfing for conspiracy theories to explain the war in Iraq this summer 2005) that I discovered the concept of peak oil (sigh).
I am mainly suprised at how little foresight and analysis major news outlets provide... Financial magazines (Money) should be all over this... CNN should be doing interviews every day. Though they are scratching the surface of the topic, relative to its potential impact the silence surrounding peak oil is deafening. Is that lack of attention conspiracy, wishful thinking, or a blind spot due to lack of imagination? Governments, institutions, and industry have the resources and information needed to guide public behavior and policies, but there has been no public policy guidance in this area...
I'm guilty of assuming that there were no major flaws in our system which would predictably bring recession/depression and social change in the coming decade or two... and trusting that if there were such a flaw that there would be some loud public warning and discussion and planning to prevent that decline. Call me gullible.
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Windmills
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:49 am |
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| Heavy Crude |
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 475 Location: Arizona, USA
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I was a nuclear engineering major in college, so I was scientifically aware through most of my life. However, the magnitude of the problem just didn't seem to sink in. I, like many, just assumed that the details would work themselves out. I didn't stop to think the devil is in the details, maybe literally. I never put the entire picture together with all its interconnected pieces. It took time to realize just how pervasive misiniformation was, that not ever "expert" really knew what he was talking about, that not every leader had the best interest of his followers in mind. I think that we all begin life very naive, and becoming aware invovles a long process of shedding propaganda, misinformation, beliefs, traditions, values, lies, and learning who you can and cannot trust, who wants to help you, and who just wants to take advantage of you. All the lies your parents passed on to you have to be shed before you can begin to even comprehend the truth. Once I finally saw a fairly complete picture all in one place, I was stunned into depression and have only slowly been coming out of that as I make efforts to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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Trab
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:41 am |
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 294 Location: SoWashCo, Minnesota
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I was 31 in 2000. I stumbled across Jay Hanson's DieOff site back in 1998 or so, got really bummed out about it for a while, then got caught up in work and personal issues that made me forget about Peak Oil until 2004.
From my point of view, I think that Americans are programmed to be pretty uncurious about their surroundings. Food comes from the grocery store; gas comes from the gas station. The media blasts us with stories about sports, or Paris Hilton, or what famous people are getting divorced, or some dog that managed to travel 1200 miles to get home, etc. We're not actively encouraged to think about the truly important things in life, and we generally don't unless the particular issue is so huge that we and the media can't avoid it.
Saving money and downshifting our 'lifestyles' is bad for a consumer economy, so we're encouraged to spend more, buy more, and consume more. Since distressed people don't usually head on down to Old Navy to buy more clothes, the media does its part by putting out mostly happy talk to keep the consumers content. Even here on Peak Oil, a lot of us (myself included) ruminate on what we need to buy to be safe and comfortable 20 years from now.
Anyway, to get back to the main point, most Americans are trained to not think about weighty subjects like this, and when you bring it up to them, many will resist talking about it. If you like preserving your relations with friends and family, in many cases you just don't bring it up.
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Guest
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:59 am |
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MicroHydro wrote: <snipped> So, people aged over 26 who didn't learn about the concept of peak oil until this century, please share with me what you were thinking back then. I promise not to be rude to anyone.
I'm 28... In 2000 I'd just gotten the internet... I've known about peak oil for less than a year, I think. Trying to explain it to friends and family garners some strange looks, so I've just given up. I do have one friend who's reading everything she can about it.
anyway... in 2000, I knew fossil fuels were finite but 200 years into the future doesn't affect *me*, right? And they'll find alternatives, right?
Also your 20's are such a mad dash to find yourself or establish yourself financially or start/raise a family (depending on which track you take- for many all of them) worrying about oil running out or global warming or raises in cancer rates or any of that jazz is too overwhelming unless you know it will directly affect you NOW.
My God, a lot of this information gives me an instant headache- I'm surprised I've come this far in learning about it. But I know that it may directly affect me and my family very very soon. (I know this sounds selfish, I'm just being honest)
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Ancien_Opus
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:34 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 148
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I'm almost 50. My grandfather worked for Texaco 35 years in Southern Illinois. I worked for Texaco 2 years right out of High School. In
those early days we knew the shortages where largely political. When Mexico nationalized the oil field you could easily picture the platforms rusting in the Gulf of Mexico. The whole Nixon price freeze business of old oil versus new oil, was all a cruel joke. 1979 was the Iran crisis, again political. If you where anywhere close to the oil industry you knew crude was coming on line because we where finding more than we where using.
So fast forward to 2000. Canatrell is in decline, Prudoe Bay is in deline, and the North Sea is in decline. We're just not finding oil anymore and the great discoveries of the 1990's Caspian basin have been a huge dissappointment. All the powerful technology in world at their disposal and the majors can't reverse the trend. All that technology and they couldn't get more oil out of East Texas, it continues to drop. This time it's geological and not political and that is THE difference.
Grandpa started off in the oil business 1930 as a teamster hauling pipe into the bottom land with two mules. He lived with no electricity, water from a cistern, bee's, hen house and a 40 acre farm. Perhaps two mule farms will be all the rage again.
Regards,
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gt1370a
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:44 pm |
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 422
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I'm almost 27. From '96-'02 I was studying engineering at a top US university. Oil never crossed my mind. Why would I ever think about it when I could fill up the tank for 20 bucks?
When I was a little kid I used to see dumpsters full of garbage and think that before long the whole world would be covered in garbage. Or I'd see all the smoke from a fire and think that if everybody had a woodstove then the whole sky would fill with smoke. When I got older and realized how big the world is, and heard things like "If everyone stood shoulder to shoulder, all 6 billion people could fit in Jackson, Mississippi" I just started to figure that we were well within the earth's carrying capacity. Not until I stumbled upon Matt Savinar's lifeaftertheoilcrash.net did I ever divide 2 trillion by 84 million and realize there was a problem.
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mgibbons19
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:15 pm |
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| Light Sweet Crude |
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1149
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1966 wrote: fluffy wrote: But free market systems by definition strongly discount the future this is a stunning observation. i had never thought about this problem in such crystal clear terms before. "free market" (this is a very misleading term) economics and finance are all about trashing (discounting) the future. can anyone refute this? fluffy wrote: Should things get to the stage of physical rationing and shortages, I strongly suspect that the idea of leaving it to the market will vanish like the morning dew. We shall see. i agree totally.
I might suggest that free market systems whose only goal is the quarterly profit report have little regard for the long term future. A less myopic captialism might have enterprising ppl managing their resources better, planning to make a profit on disruptions, planning for a different future.
Edit to add: Known about oil as a finite resource since 1989 - Mr Groff's Ecology class fall smester senior year. But knowing about it and doing anything about it were two different things. What difference does it make if I drive a corolla? honestly now? Zing through the 90s, oil is cheap, shortages didn't materialize. Who knows when the problems are coming? More concerned with grad school, children, career. Screw those things up and they have a definit negative impact on my life RIGHT NOW and forever.
Been familiar with the term peak oil for almost two years now.
So, what could I have done differently anyway.
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ONeil
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:02 pm |
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| Heavy Crude |
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 138
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I'm in my 30's.
There were always other things that seemed to be more important. Not to downplay peak oil, it's just that peak oil never made it my radar screen. The cold war and imminent global death due to thermonuclear war, Collapse of the Former Soviet Union, the economic threat of the European Union, Asian Tigers, Currency Contagion, etc.
I found out about peak oil from a list of 2004's most under reported stories. The internet is an incredible tool, it really is. If it were not for the internet and certain sites, of which peakoil.com is certainly one, far fewer people would be aware of the issue today. Do not underestimate your power to pass this message along, for the internet is only a tool and as such is only as powerful as the people that wield it. There are still many people who are in denial.
The peripheral awareness that you refer to; yes I can say that I was aware that oil was a finite resource, however I also believed the conventional though that this would not be a problem within my life time.
There is another component to this as well. I always believed we would contine to grow. I was rather annoyed with the slow pace of our space programs because I always felt that expansion represented the best option for future growth. So depleting oil will not be a problem, we will find a new energy source in space. Becoming a space faring race will result in changes to our society and these changes will have such a hugh impact that the depletion of one resource should not be a critical event.
Now I realize that we may not have sufficient energy remaining to accomplish the expansionist dream of Star Trek.
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drew
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:05 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 978 Location: canada
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Sorry, I spent the first 30 years of my life with my head up my ass (Bad, bad childhood  ), and now I'm 42. I had read about PO in 98 in Scientific American, but put it on the back burner for several more years till I read a book review of Hubberts Peak in S.A. (great Mag BTW) around 2001 or 2. I was in the middle of a degree at the time, and busy raising three kids, wife, home, etc.... Funny thing is though, I have a science background (UofW 1986 (intoxicated  )), and have read SA for nealy 20 years. I finally got Hubberts Peak out of the library in the spring of 2004 and was a little floored! Still, I am slow (got to admit it) and didn't start seriously investing in energy till november of last year. As for doomer preps, I have none so far except what I've read up on. I am mostly trying to make as much money as possible and pay down our debt before tshtf. I think energy is such a major part of our existence that it is like the elephant standing in the parlour that you just can't see.
Drew
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aldente
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:38 pm |
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1428
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We all seem to be in the same age-range. I was born in 1966. Some of the young fellows that make the exception like Toecutter for instance are seemingly equipped with advanced and outstanding mindsets!
My credo today is the one of the bloated belly: war bloats
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Petrodollar
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:53 am |
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 413 Location: Maryland
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I'm now 36, and it was Heinberg's book, The Party's Over, that convinced me in the spring of 2003 about the likely time frame for Peak Oil. It also allowed me to see the full scope of the issue. At the time I was busy researching the macroeconomics behind the Iraq War, and I put the two converging phenomena together when I subsequently wrote my book. Here's some exerts that summarize my viewpoint re PO.
(FWIW: To answer the basic question in this thread, PO creates a lot of cognitive dissonance for people living in a highly industrialized world, even for the highly educated among us. Monbiot's quote summarizes much of what has been said on this thread)
Chapter Three Global Peak Oil: The Millennium’s Greatest Challenge
All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
– Schopenhauer, Philosopher
The world is not running out of oil — at least not yet. What our society does face, and soon, is the end of the abundant and cheap oil.
– Colin J. Campbell, Founder of The Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas (ASPO), 1998
Every generation has its taboo, and ours is this: that the resource upon which our lives have been built is running out. We don’t talk about it because we cannot imagine it. This is a civilization in denial.
– George Monbiot, the Guardian (UK), December 2003
By the time this is being read, currently available oil production capacity all around the world will be producing flat out. How sustainable this proves to be remains to be seen.
– Chris Skrebowski, editor, Petroleum Review, August 2004
You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
– Inscription on the marble entranceway of the CIA headquarters, Langley, Virginia
....and here's how I end that chapter, with another quote:
We have only a dwindling amount of time to build lifeboats — that is, the needed alternative infrastructure. It has been clear for at least 30 years what characteristics this should have — organic, small-scale, local, convivial, cooperative, slower paced, human-oriented rather than machine-oriented, agrarian, diverse, democratic, culturally rich, and ecologically sustainable.
A transition to a lower level of social-technological complexity need not be violent, need not be chaotic, and need not entail the loss of the values and cultural achievements of which we are most proud as a society. And the end result could be far more humane, enjoyable, and satisfying than life currently is for citizens of this grandest of empires.
– Richard Heinberg, “Beyond the Peak,” December 2004
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PrairieMule
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:13 pm |
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3091 Location: In a Nigerian compound surrounded by mighty dignataries
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Hello My name is Charles, I am 35 years old, and I am recovering right wing gun toting survivalist.
It's been 7 years since I fired my last assault weapon at a gun range and I have been assault weapon free since 1998. Ever since I was 14 when I saw the Terminator on Cable TV I always wonderered what happen if TSHF. My grandfather was a survivalist complete with AR-15 and 6 months of food. Time has mellowed me out over the years and I have moved from a anti social survivalist to a friendly retreatist. Up till 2000 I tried to soak up as much information the way Sarah Connor did in Terminator2. In 2000 my father the level headed petrolium engineer told me that we would run out of oil in our lifetime and I should learn the cattle business because people will be getting their food locally.
My eyes are wide open to every aspect mentioned on this website but I still remain optimistic, and here is why: In 1995 I lived in Oklahoma City a big damn bomb went off. I saw my men, women, and children with their faces cut up and limbs missing. Something else happened in that town which changed the way I viewed my neighbor. The people of Oklahoma city stopped taking their neighbor for granted and pulled together.
I feel we have 50/50 shot at Madmax or a mild change in our consumer habits. What ever the outcome I will remain optimistic and ready to lend a hand. I will also stockpile a modest amount of ammo, a 72 hour bugout kit, pay off debt, be ready for a economic collapse but either way the sun will still rise tommorow. Seems like our only two options is to arm and defend our pile or sit idlely then raid. I say there is a third option, if TSHF we will need people of optimistic charicter to pull it together as Winston Churchill and the British did. Start planning to adapt and be ready to help others.
_________________ If you give a man a fish you will have kept him from hunger for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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Licho
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:49 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 903 Location: Brno, Czech rep., EU
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I knew that oil is a finite resource but somehow realized it all fully during the first gulf war. I read limits to growth shortly after it and since then I'm aware of peak oil and related problems.
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lakeweb
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:25 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 246 Location: Arizona
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PrairieMule wrote: Hello My name is Charles, I am 35 years old, and I am recovering right wing gun toting survivalist.
It's been 7 years since I fired my last assault weapon at a gun range and I have been assault weapon free since 1998...
Thanks PrairieMule,
I've been reading some here and I finally laughed my ass off.
As for the rest of your post, I live in a very rural area. Mostly Mormons with guns.
I have already started talking with neighbors about peak oil. I was pleasantly surprised, that even if they didn't know the issue well, they were smart enough to get stuff in short time.
I'll post my confessional here tomorrow.
Best, Dan.
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