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View unanswered posts | View active topics
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WildRose
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:16 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 1320
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Stargazer wrote: Hi guys. First post. I've been lurking for a while and I thought this would be a good place to jump in.
There were a few websites that kept coming up whenever I googled about the subject: LATOC, wolfatthedoor.org.uk, and peakoil.com .
Let me be the first to welcome you, Stargazer!
There is a wealth of information in these forums, enough to keep you reading for a long time.
You mentioned the wolfatthedoor.org.uk site. I found that site also to be an excellent introduction to oil depletion. The map on that site that shows the world's proven reserves (and how long each country's reserves would fuel the world at current consumption rates) was a real eye-opener to me.
Congrats for being out of debt - peak oil or not, that is a real bonus to your position.
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Stargazer
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:46 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 7
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Thanks for the welcome, WildRose.
I'm becoming more and more aware of oil - or energy - peaking every day here. The media runs stories that on the surface appear to be unrelated, but when viewed through the prism of peak oil, it all begins to come together.
The latest media hype is about the government apparently being determined to go ahead and build nuclear power plants or "face rolling blackouts in 15 years time."
I wonder how they are going to run the things safely when the oil-powered society we live in starts to run down.
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Waterthrush
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:40 pm |
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| Heavy Crude |
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 239 Location: New Jersey
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I am middle aged, old enough that, like MicroHydro I viewed the original Star Trek as a child, at an age where the sometimes rather obvious fables made a deep impression, and got me thinking in longer terms.
I was always interested in history and was trained as an historian, an education for which I will always be thankful. Thinking historically helps me visualize societal change, analyze the events I see unfolding, and understand my own place in it all. I can at least partly see the slow unfolding of long term economic changes, but I can understand the suddenness that sometimes happens as well. Many of you cited 9-11. That to me though was part of a larger "narrative" of which the first Gulf War and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan were also part. For me, the real eye-opener to the suddenness of change were the revolutions in Eastern Europe in 1989-90. I never thought in my lifetime the two Germanys would be united. I never thought the Soviet Union would disintegrate like that. It really helped me visualize how suddenly things could change (and brought, for example, the revolutions of 1848 more vividly to life). Now I understand.
I've been aware of Peak Oil for a long time. I was also aware of the fragility of all sorts of infrastructure long before 9-11. People remind me how I used to talk about how precarious it all was. I was never in an economic position to make overall preparations for Peak Oil, but I have generally kept it in mind as I got a job, bought a home, and planned for the future. I am reasonably prepared for near-term effects, poorly prepared for the larger scale effects.
One of my jobs in graduate school was to drive my boss's car to the gas stations during the first oil shocks. I remember that quite vividly (only time I ever drove a luxury car!). But, like another poster, to me the issue was nuclear war. I was acutely aware that the nuclear genie was out, or would be out, of the bottle within my lifetime. I was also very aware of the Holocaust, and those two events convinced me that either the human race had to evolve, or die. I still think that. I know how easily many people gravitate towards becoming part of a group - Team A or Team B - and are unable or unwilling to leave that mindset. Some at Peak Oil are like that - "if you don't stomp on your enemy first, then you will be stomped on" - and they would say that any other attitude is delusional and suicidal. I say rather that they are the ones who are committing suicide. With the advent of nuclear weapons, and, now the possibility of poisoning the only planet capable of supporting life, either we evolve into a kinder, gentler species - or we all die. I'd rather go down evolving!
So, my care and attention has been devoted to environmental concerns. I see wonderful things almost every day. I am encouraged by how the natural world rebounds when we give it sufficient care. Did you know the first wild-born chicks of a painstakingly nurtured East Coast whooping crane flock have just hatched? Operation Migration There are really, really good people around who care about the world. We could do this, if people would just pay attention.
I went to see An Inconvenient Truth and allowed myself to believe that we can make this a better world.
So, yes, I was paying attention all along. I am mentally prepared for at least some of the effects of Peak Oil, and I'm keeping a written journal for future historians (assuming there will be such!)
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Doly
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:48 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 4026
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Waterthrush wrote: So, yes, I was paying attention all along. I am mentally prepared for at least some of the effects of Peak Oil, and I'm keeping a written journal for future historians (assuming there will be such!)
Could you share with us your opinions on how future events will unfold? Your perspective could be useful.
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jvangi
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:12 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 19 Location: France
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I'm 29.
Of course I knew that oil was a finite ressource but why should I care?
Ecologists were just party poopers... and I was too lazy to think about it.
But in early 2005 I fortuitously read the book "A green history of the world". Then I started to wonder about oil, don't ask me why.
Then the world changed for me.
But I can tell you one thing: without the Internet, I would probably not have bothered about getting documentation on the topic, I am too lazy!
Today I am still lazy but fortunately the Internet is still working and I can informed myself easily to get prepared for the big mess.
Well, just to emphasize one of the numerous paradox life is full of: Without oil, no internet, no information for lazy people so more oil consumption so finally internet, informed lazy people and... wathever... THE WALL.
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Waterthrush
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:35 am |
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| Heavy Crude |
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 239 Location: New Jersey
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Doly, you asked about perspective - historians are mostly focused on the past, lol. I do want to note, though, as others have, that fairly abrupt changes are already taking place in poorer countries. The rationing and unaffordable prices that we talk about here are a reality already in some parts of the world.
For here, the US, I think the economic changes will come rather suddenly, as financial problems often do come on quickly. The economy is pretty tied together, and right now is resting on the willingness of the rest of the world to continue to buy US treasuries, full knowing that the US will simply inflate its economy (i.e. print more dollar bills) to pay for it now, it's just too burdensome to deal with it otherwise. And other central banks will collaborate. But, the reality, I think, is that the US consumer is tapped out, and peak oil is silently increasing its bite every month. If not now, then after the elections, there'll be economic hardship.
The chatter on financial channels has ABRUPTLY turned bearish in the past week.
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Waterthrush
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:03 pm |
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| Heavy Crude |
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 239 Location: New Jersey
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Want to add one thing: reliable birth control will have an increasing effect once the economic situation goes south. I think we already are seeing a dramatic drop in the birthrate of 20-somethings. The enormous expense of middle-class childrearing is already apparent.
24 year old interns with no health insurance are delaying having children.
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traz
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:53 pm |
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| Tar Sands |
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 26
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MicroHydro wrote: Was it like food comes from the grocery store, electricity from the wall socket, and gasoline from the service station? You never thought beyond that? You assumed that wise, kindly responsible adults were going to take care of things to ensure your abundant energy future forever? Isn't literature fully of stories about powerful people being full of greed, deception, and folly? What about Macbeth or Richard III?
Yes, that's exactly how I was thinking. And that's how most people think unfortunately
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auwolf
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:20 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 39 Location: SE QLD, Australia
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I'm 27. I read briefly about peak oil (it wasn't called that though where I read about it) in 2003, but forgot about it TBH. I was in the middle of a PhD, planning to go to America (my first ever overseas trip and by myself at that) and the day to day grind of bills etc took over everything else. In 2004 I had a child, and it seems my life has changed so much just from that. I have always been sympathetic to environmental causes though pretty apathetic about doing anything about it (mostly because I felt my family would think I was "silly" - my most rebellious act was to go vegetarian in 2003) but having my daughter has enabled me to strengthen my core values and, in questioning mainstream parenting values, I've started to question everything. I would have to say my degree DID teach me how to think critically, but mainly because I had some awesome lecturers. Most of my friends do not bother to question or think for themselves. Even my "husband" (we're not married, just engaged, but in the eyes of the law we're de facto) is a bit head in the sand, doesn't like to question anything unless I bring it to his attention.
So anyway, in contemplating my daughter's future it became very apparent that things were not good. I knew oil was a finite resource, but stemming from my childhood, I guess we believe that if it was a problem the government will tell us (HA! Yeah right). So I figured it would not happen in my lifetime... but with rising fuel prices, and a sense of concern, I have been feeling the need to simplify our life and power down ever since I climbed out of the dark pit of depression I was in after her birth. However I wasn't able to convince my OH of this need and he gets resentful if he thinks his toys and lifestyle are being taken away *sigh* so when someone finally posted the link to LATOC I was able to pinpoint my fears and show him something and say "THIS is why I'm scared of the future". He still hasn't read the whole article but he's coming around slowly to doing some things to prepare.
So in summary, what was I thinking? I wasn't, I was too distracted by life. I was overwhelmed by a feeling that nothing I could do would make a difference. The economic talk and a lot of the scientific talk on this forum goes right over my head, I'm here because of a gut feeling, because I'm a mother, and because I now question everything. :D
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WildRose
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:36 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 1320
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auwolf wrote: So in summary, what was I thinking? I wasn't, I was too distracted by life. I was overwhelmed by a feeling that nothing I could do would make a difference. The economic talk and a lot of the scientific talk on this forum goes right over my head, I'm here because of a gut feeling, because I'm a mother, and because I now question everything. :D
Welcome, auwolf!
I read your words and thought I could have written them myself. I'm a mother of three, a 20-year-old daughter and two teenaged sons. I was, like you, very distracted by the day-to-day grind before I learned about oil depletion and the many other converging crises the world is facing. I regret, though, that I didn't know this stuff when my kids were little; I would have done some things differently!
I also find that some of the talk on this board from economic, geologic, engineering experts, etc. goes over my head. However, after a year of reading on this board and also a couple of books about the oil/energy situation, it's getting easier to understand. I find that the discussions and analysis on these forums gives me more insight. Your words about your gut feeling and the fact that you think for yourself being what led you here also resonates with me.
Enjoy your daughter, auwolf, the years go by so quickly!
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auwolf
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 39 Location: SE QLD, Australia
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Thanks Wildrose! She's 2 in three weeks and the years DO go so quickly! I'm amazed by some of my friends; mothers, who don't want to find out about PO because they'll get too depressed  . It makes me sad. I spoke about it briefly today and mentioned there are things you can do to prepare in small ways so hopefully they decide to educate themselves.
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halcyon
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:55 am |
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 170
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This reminds me of a Danish saying:
"We are all going to hell,
but at least we are travelling 1st class."
I think that pretty much sums it up.
(and if you think you are not travelling 1st class, most likely you are, if you get electricity from a wall socket, have a car in your yard and drink clean water from a tap).
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Doly
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:33 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 4026
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halcyon wrote: (and if you think you are not travelling 1st class, most likely you are, if you get electricity from a wall socket, have a car in your yard and drink clean water from a tap).
What if you don't have a car in your yard?
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Pretorian
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:20 am |
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 2563 Location: Somewhere there
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I knew that we are to be screwed at the age of 12-13., way back in 1989-1991. I was expecting tshtf thing to happen in 2030-2035, no earlier than that. PO theory makes me think it will be 2012-2016, with steady quality of life decline. I dont beleive in fast crash here in usa, though I do want one.
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Tanada
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Post subject: Re: Age 26 or older? What were you thinking? Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:38 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 4976 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
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Back in 1982, when I was in High School, I was hugely aware of the energy problems we are facing today (and back then) but I was re-assured by TPTB that lots of things were lined up to save us, cheifly Shale Oil (Kerogen) was soon going to be flowing out of Utah and Colorado and make the USA energy idependent again. When I got my first car in 1985 gasoline was $1.249 per gallon and I couldn't afford to drive as much as I wanted too. Late the very next year gasoline was $.869 per gallon (The lowest I have seen it in 20+ years of driving) and we all fell back to sleep assured that TPTB had things under controll. I remember the spike from Deasert Storm, but that was short lived and the dire predictions about Burgan were proven wrong within months. After that prices were all down hill until about 2000. When Gasoline hit $2.02 per gallon I woke back up and started paying attention again, in April 05 I found this web forum and well, you know the rest 
_________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
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