I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Disasters, do they make us stronger?
POAlex wrote:
Sometimes we get caught up in these events but come on guys, by reading this thread it seems like some people actually want a really big disaster to happen.
Think about it. Imagine if that was you living in an area where a disaster struck. Even worse, if people you loved were killed.
I'm glad to hear this storm is weakening, this is not entertainment.
Alex
What does not kill you makes you stronger. One interesting point is that this time around, NO residents are buying firearms en masse. People should go through life threatening disasters yearly at minimum. Kills off the weak and builds character.
But hey, Spartan philosophy is Mad in the Land of the Fat in 2008.
Alex, as a God fearing Christian you shouldn't be surprised to see God bringing down his terrible judgement on a society which has abandoned him for the pleasures of the flesh. So please, stop crying like a single mom at her son's first peewee football game.
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
MadScientist wrote:
POAlex wrote:
Sometimes we get caught up in these events but come on guys, by reading this thread it seems like some people actually want a really big disaster to happen.
Think about it. Imagine if that was you living in an area where a disaster struck. Even worse, if people you loved were killed.
I'm glad to hear this storm is weakening, this is not entertainment.
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3228 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
nobodypanic wrote:
MadScientist wrote:
POAlex wrote:
Sometimes we get caught up in these events but come on guys, by reading this thread it seems like some people actually want a really big disaster to happen.
Think about it. Imagine if that was you living in an area where a disaster struck. Even worse, if people you loved were killed.
I'm glad to hear this storm is weakening, this is not entertainment.
Alex
What does not kill you makes you stronger.
nietzsche forgot to add: 'or cripples you.'
And really, it still just postpones the inevitable _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
Ludi wrote:
MadScientist wrote:
People should go through life threatening disasters yearly at minimum. Kills off the weak and builds character..
How many have you been through?
I've been out of my comfort zone enough times to appreciate the wisdom of that statement, to know that my limits are set by my mind more than my body, to be confident that I have the courage to face the fear of death and act decisively. I'm sure it sounds cold and callous to you Ludi. And it is. However, we are about to enter a very cold and callous age. A time that people need to prepare for mentally through adversity.
If the thought of someone like me still makes you shudder, you should be thankful there are men who face these situations every day to protect your quality of life.
The Katrina survivors are better educated and better prepared to survive Gus. And for this reason they will also be better prepared to weather peak oil than the average urbanite.
The worst situation imo is to face a disaster with no life experiences to prepare you for it. Life in the American Pleasure Dome has not prepared most of us for the coming powerdown. _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
MadScientist wrote:
I've been out of my comfort zone enough times to appreciate the wisdom of that statement, to know that my limits are set by my mind more than my body, to be confident that I have the courage to face the fear of death and act decisively..
Way to not answer the question.
How many life-threatening disasters have you been through? _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3228 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
Ludi wrote:
MadScientist wrote:
I've been out of my comfort zone enough times to appreciate the wisdom of that statement, to know that my limits are set by my mind more than my body, to be confident that I have the courage to face the fear of death and act decisively..
Way to not answer the question.
How many life-threatening disasters have you been through?
I was about to ask the same thing. As someone who has been out of their "comfort zone" plenty of times but only 2-3 real life threatening situations, I will testify that there is a difference. _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
Ludi wrote:
Way to not answer the question. How many life-threatening disasters have you been through?
zero. Most of my experiences with personally life threatening situations were in the military. I was part of a top secret USMC unit operating in Asia quite a few years ago. I got a nice heavy dose of "life threatening". I also have had emergency response experiences which were eye opening if not directly personal. I am considerably more safety/preparedness conscious than the average person now, and I owe most of it to my military experiences. They truly changed my life.
Adversity makes people strong and inclined to prepare. One thing I do not do is coddle my kids. I push them outside their comfort zones constantly. They will need it. This runs counter to conventional wisdom among mothers (and fathers to a somewhat lesser degree) in the US. They seem to think they're only doing their job if they are protecting their kids from everything. Big big mistake. Antibacterial soap being one small example of the many stupid things parents do with the best of intentions.
Ludi you probably think I must be lying because anyone who has been through a disaster would not wish it on anyone-
What is coming in the near future is way worse than a hurricane. For some reason you have a disconnect to how that applies to today. You believe enough to be preparing a farm, but I don't think you've seen the animal yet.
Anything that gets a fat American off their ass at this point is good. Cause how we react when TSHTF is going to have a big impact on our future as a nation. _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: 2008 Hurricane / Typhoon / Cyclone Season
MadScientist wrote:
zero
Glad we cleared that up.
MadScientist wrote:
For some reason you have a disconnect to how that applies to today.
Really? In what way do I have a "disconnect"?
I've been through a couple of natural disasters, one genuinely life-threatening (tornado), the other merely a disaster (earthquake) and personal illness. Has it built character and strength? Beats the heck out of me. *shrug*
Where's the "disconnect" you seem to see in me?
edited to add: Let's continue this discussion elsewhere. Can a mod split the "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" stuff? Thanks. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Last edited by Ludi on Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Disasters, do they make us stronger?
I don't know why you want to continue this debate Ludi. I've made my point several times now.
You persistently attempt to discredit it with no supporting evidence of your own as to why I'm wrong. Just insinuation that I'm lying to you when I say I'm speaking through experience.
I saw "life threatening disaster" as a step down from open warfare/lawlessness, something I believe quite strongly the average American will face in my lifetime. A day or week of disaster is a lot easier than persistent threat of attack.
Going without water for a short period of time teaches you to store water. Same for food. Same for shelter. Same for security. People in America aren't ready for what's coming.
So you can pick and choose what you want from my responses, but I know what I'm talking about and I don't need your validation.
By disconnect, I mean that you don't think it's gonna get that bad. Your location of "zombie horde wonderland" pretty much sums it up. You're welcome to that opinion. I'm sure you're much more aware than most.
Both my ex-wife and my current girlfriend had serious cancer at young ages (30ish). My ex's cancer involved losing a child as well. And through those times I was able to be a pillar of optimism and support for them. I helped them get through by recognizing the strength in themselves. I'm not trying to take the credit from them. They are amazingly strong women.
I'm quite aware of what their response to this question is because they've shared how much more they appreciate life and health now that they've been through that "disaster".
Maybe you should think about it a little more and see if you can come up with better than "beats the heck outta me *shrug"
Or is your only interest in this topic personal attack? _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 3228 Location: Resiliency Farm
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Disasters, do they make us stronger?
MS,
Is it possible someone could come through a life threatening disaster and have another perspective on it? Could they see it as something that they do not want to repeat, especially annually? Could it be something that did not teach them new skills or appreciation for life but chronic pain (physical or mental)?
Would you pass moral or other judgment on that person who sees such things as something to be avoided? _________________ “It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 873 Location: Tustin, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Disasters, do they make us stronger?
MadScientist wrote:
POAlex wrote:
Sometimes we get caught up in these events but come on guys, by reading this thread it seems like some people actually want a really big disaster to happen.
Think about it. Imagine if that was you living in an area where a disaster struck. Even worse, if people you loved were killed.
I'm glad to hear this storm is weakening, this is not entertainment.
Alex
What does not kill you makes you stronger. One interesting point is that this time around, NO residents are buying firearms en masse. People should go through life threatening disasters yearly at minimum. Kills off the weak and builds character.
But hey, Spartan philosophy is Mad in the Land of the Fat in 2008.
Alex, as a God fearing Christian you shouldn't be surprised to see God bringing down his terrible judgement on a society which has abandoned him for the pleasures of the flesh. So please, stop crying like a single mom at her son's first peewee football game.
I understand the Nietzche part of the quote; but don't post while your'll on meth! _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Disasters, do they make us stronger?
Disasters don't make people stronger, they just winnow down the number of people and leave more resources for the ones left standing. For the most part, if you live or die in a disaster is a capricious thing, its a matter of chance. Where you happen to be living, what class you were born into, what your alternatives are.
Even having tons of money, buying land in Idaho, storing up 5 years of food and split wood, a Wildfire could take it all away in an instant. You are stronger because of this? I don't think so.
If in this society you were fortunate enough to make some money and have some choices now, you are better off than most of the residents of NO, who have little choice. They HAVE to leave now, because Disaster is Imminent and OBVIOUS. The economic slide we have going isn't so obvious to most people, you can't see it in a Sattellite Picture. So despite all the warning signs are there, most folks who DO have the means to GET OUT NOW are not going to get out. They will end up trapped, does this make them stronger? Hardly, it just makes them more likely to be dead sooner.
You won't get anywhere trying to "tough it out" and being stronger for the short term here, though long term it is necessary to be so. Right now in this battle, the best plan is Cowardice. RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY FAST! When a Volcano blows, if you live nearby you aren't going to get any stronger fighting it. If you expect to live, you RUN AWAY. FAST.
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