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skiptamali
Tar Sands
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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So here's an interesting bit of news. Ford will get a $10 million grant from the U.S. DOE to develop plug-in hybrids. This will cover approximately half the cost of the project. The plan is to bring the PHEV closer to commercialization by working out some of the early quirks and setbacks.
This looks like a solid partnership between the government and private automakers. Why Ford though? Why only Ford? How far can $20M get them in three years?
I wonder if granting money to Ford alone, and not pushing collaboration with other (American) automakers, is the smartest thing to do. |
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3748
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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What a joke. This is not a pie-in-the-sky research project anymore. It's already becoming a reality. In 3 years the Volt, Vue (technically a plugin but a pretty weak-ass one), Fisker Karma, and Aptera plugins will already be on the road.
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Paranoia is demonstrated to be an infectious disease, and stupidity plus the internet its major vector.
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strider3700
Fission
Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 2723
Location: Vancouver Island
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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Ford lost 8.7 billion in it's second quarter. Compared to that 10 million is laughable
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shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts |
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IslandCrow
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 832
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| skiptamali wrote: | | grant from the U.S. DOE to develop plug-in hybrids. |
This could be good news for the plug-in industry. If the military sees it as an advantage for them then it the whole idea might get to see the light of day before we are too far down the back slope of PO.
It is probably also bad news, given that ability of the military to overpay for what it gets.
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We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice. |
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nocar
Intermediate Crude
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Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Posts: 681
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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I am not at all enthusiastic over plug-in cars.
Biofuel - grain prices go up and carless people have to pay more for food in order for car-owners to enjoy their car-driving habit
Plug-in cars - electricity prices go up and carless people have to pay more for their power in order for car-owners to enjoy their car-driving habit
Is that really fair?
nocar |
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3748
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| nocar wrote: |
Plug-in cars - electricity prices go up and carless people have to pay more for their power in order for car-owners to enjoy their car-driving habit
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Think big picture. Given how dependent we are on oil for more than just gasoline, freeing up that oil through electrifying transportation would clearly be a net gain for everyone.
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Paranoia is demonstrated to be an infectious disease, and stupidity plus the internet its major vector.
--skeptik |
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Plantagenet
Expert
Joined: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 5912
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| Building electrical light rail mass transit systems right now, like they have in Europe right now, would make a lot more sense then spending another decade trying to create the perfect electric car. |
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RSFB
Heavy Crude
Joined: Aug 03, 2008
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| Plantagenet wrote: | | Building electrical light rail mass transit systems, like they have in Europe right now, would a lot more sense then spending billions trying to create the perfect electric car. |
If electrical light rail is built, the terrorists have already won. |
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dinopello
Fission
Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 2886
Location: The Urban Village
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| Plantagenet wrote: | | Building electrical light rail mass transit systems, like they have in Europe right now, would a lot more sense then spending billions trying to create the perfect electric car. |
Yay, we agree on something !
The thing with rail is that it is a node-based transportation system. Each node or train stop needs to be compact and walkable so that the people getting off at the stop have a way to get to their ultimate destination. A comprehensive energy and/or transportation policy would encourage or at least allow the (re)building of compact, walkable communities. These kind of places have been in demand and command a premium in price wherever they exist except that building them is next to illegal in most places due to various regulations that either make it impossible or extremely expensive - including parking requirements, ADA codes etc.
The best thing I can say about electric cars is that by necessity they will be smaller so maybe they will take up less space for storage and the communities can be made more compact and walkable.
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Disclaimer: The statement above may contain forward-looking statements that implicitly make certain assumptions that may or may not be accurate. For example, it is likely that any statements above, presume that a total, unrecoverable economic and social collapse leading to a demise of civilization as we know it does not occur in the next decade. |
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nocar
Intermediate Crude
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Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Posts: 681
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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Mos6507 wrote
| Quote: | | Think big picture. Given how dependent we are on oil for more than just gasoline, freeing up that oil through electrifying transportation would clearly be a net gain for everyone. |
I am thinking big picture. Think how dependent we are on electricity for just about everything in modern life. I rather take higher prices on plastics, synthetic materials and transported goods than higher prices on electricity. And if things like biocides and fertilizers made from oil get more expensive, organic food production will get more competetive, with a healthier environment as a result.
Food will get more expensive in any case. The food chain depends a lot on refrigeration run by electricity, not just on tractors needing oil.
PO sure has put the car traffic system in direct competition with other human needs, unlike in the plentiful oil situation where it had an energy source more or less outside other needs.
The best solution is less car traffic All that artificial respiration by governments all around the world supporting their national car industries will just make things worse. My Swedish tax money go the same way, which makes me mad. I would much rather support lazy people on welfare, if I had a choice.
nocar |
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species8742
Coal
Joined: Oct 07, 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| mos6507 wrote: | | nocar wrote: |
Plug-in cars - electricity prices go up and carless people have to pay more for their power in order for car-owners to enjoy their car-driving habit
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Think big picture. Given how dependent we are on oil for more than just gasoline, freeing up that oil through electrifying transportation would clearly be a net gain for everyone. |
Moss please read lips.
You CANNOT free u "ALL THAT OIL"
we dont have the energy to do it.
all it will do is raise electric prices.
we use 15 terrawatt hours of power electric in the world.
Know how many barrels of oil that is?
Not very many
there is no way we can even come close to replaceing our oil needs with electiricity, and as electricity is used, prices increase.
If one out of twelve families buy an electric car, we will DOUBLE our electric consumption and the grid cant supply our needs. |
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RSFB
Heavy Crude
Joined: Aug 03, 2008
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| species8742 wrote: |
If one out of twelve families buy an electric car, we will DOUBLE our electric consumption and the grid cant supply our needs. |
It will happen gradually, not overnight. Of course the grid will have to be updated and more power stations will have to be built incrementally.
There's a lot of electricity being wasted which people will save if prices increase a lot. |
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3748
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| species8742 wrote: |
there is no way we can even come close to replaceing our oil needs with electiricity, and as electricity is used, prices increase.
If one out of twelve families buy an electric car, we will DOUBLE our electric consumption and the grid cant supply our needs. |
Electricity is the universal energy currency. That's where we're headed in the end whether you like it or not. If the grid can't handle it, put a solar array on your roof or build a windmill. Can't afford it? Tough luck. That's powerdown for you.
_________________
Paranoia is demonstrated to be an infectious disease, and stupidity plus the internet its major vector.
--skeptik |
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Plantagenet
Expert
Joined: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 5912
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| mos6507 wrote: | | species8742 wrote: |
there is no way we can even come close to replaceing our oil needs with electiricity, and as electricity is used, prices increase.
If one out of twelve families buy an electric car, we will DOUBLE our electric consumption and the grid cant supply our needs. |
Electricity is the universal energy currency. That's where we're headed in the end whether you like it or not. If the grid can't handle it, put a solar array on your roof or build a windmill. Can't afford it? Tough luck. That's powerdown for you. |
Nukes.
Nukes supply 70% of the power in France, where electric light rail and high speed electric intercity trains create the most sophisticated transportation grid in the world.
We could do that too. |
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nocar
Intermediate Crude
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Joined: Nov 05, 2004
Posts: 681
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Ford Gets $10 Million from US DOE |
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| Quote: | Nukes supply 70% of the power in France, where electric light rail and high speed electric intercity trains create the most sophisticated transportation grid in the world.
We could do that too. |
Yes, but France does not run cars on electric power. There sure is better places to use electric power than in cars.
nocar |
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