Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
hmm first the Mexican Tortilla crises then this.
This story is somewhat of a shock to me. I always thought of Italy as one of the "wealthier" nations on this planet. Normal when I think of an angry populace protesting food prices I have this image of a 3rd world country....NOT a G8 nation.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3908 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
This strikes me as very odd, IIRC Italy is one of the few countries in Western Europe to actually be self sufficient in food. _________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 1658 Location: Springsteen Country (NJ)
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
Tanada wrote:
This strikes me as very odd, IIRC Italy is one of the few countries in Western Europe to actually be self sufficient in food.
While that could be true, it doesn't matter in a global economy. Foreign buyers will bid up domestic prices to the world price in every market. _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
I love Italy. The sunny side of the Alps. The wine, the food, the language! This country has it all. That is why I will be skiing in Sestriere in January. I can hardly wait. But that praise aside there are some other things that Italy has and they are poor government, incompetence, corruption, organized crime and wide spread tax evasion.
More over Italians are very cynical about their governments and therefore turn out in very low numbers to vote. One avenue of protest they do use are the streets. Street protests including torching cars, buses, breaking shop windows and clashing with police accompany every change in policy, but also events such as the WTO meeting in Genoa. But even their favorite football team losing a match is enough to bring Italians out onto the street in protest or just to smash things up.
I am sure it is a sign of a great social malaise? Perhaps as living standards fall and the average Italian feels poorer even as African immigrants hit their beaches in leaky boats every summer. While these illegal workers can be seen openly throughout Italy in the piazza's hawking fakes and illegal copies that also hurt Italy's fashion and luxury manufacturing and export industry.
It is no wonder that Italian politics has large factions of disaffected voters in the north that are tired of subsidizing the corruption and organized crime in the south. They say that Africa starts south of Rome. And that far right wing groups are tapping into xenophobic trends and winning votes as well as popular street support for their immigrant bashing tendencies.
But just like organized street protests in France by farmers, fishermen, truck & taxi drivers as well as students and unions are not 'just' about rising fuel prices the protests in Italy are not 'just' about higher pasta prices. They are a form of public protest against their governments inability to reform their socio-economic policies, and therefore their inability to go on paying for open ended promises that the state can no longer afford to subsidize.
To be honest against the background of losing competitiveness to the Asian Tigers, and China in particular, and the prospect of higher commodity, metal and energy prices, I can imagine that those kind of protests are just getting started, and are a taste of things to come in many under-performing European countries, especially the Club Med ones.
But it's not just about pasta...
Quote:
Italy’s antitrust agency announced an investigation into illegal price fixing in Italy’s pasta industry. Pasta makers have raised prices by 60 percent this year, citing the 60 percent increase in worldwide wheat prices and the fact that 60 percent of the cost of pasta is wheat. “Yes, the price of wheat has risen, but it has simply gone back to 1985 levels,” Rosario Trefiletti, president of the Federconsumatori consumers’ association told CNN. “So who’s been profiting from low prices these past 20 years?”
Joined: May 26, 2004 Posts: 1195 Location: Zoorope
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
HA HA ROTFL
What's your information source? WWII reports???
People in the streets for tortellini! This is great!
(Real world: bread went up 50% in one day last month, pasta followed. People was disappointed, TV News spoke about that. Many guessings, like grain price going up -not that much- then they discovered there was a sort of cartel which decided to pump the price. A sort of scandal.)
Nobody is starving. Quite the opposite, children are becoming too fat here too. And people are too busy driving to malls for Christmas spendings to complain about bread price for more than 1 week. _________________ **no english mothertongue**
--------
Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
Joined: Nov 24, 2007 Posts: 26 Location: south OZ , sheep/wheat zone
Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
Just a quick comment , here in south Oz the local durrum wheat buyers are basicaly going around with a open cheque book so that they can get enough for full production runs, so I've been told.
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
dust_farmer wrote:
pity I didn't grow any this year...
Looks like durum production came off production highs in 2004/2005, and then dipped substantially in the past two years as poor weather conditions and low prices ate into the surpluses and planted acres.
Quote:
World durum output in 2005/06 is estimated at approximately 26 million tons, down sharply from last year's record of around 33 million. Drought in the European Union and Northwest Africa, which account for more than half of global import demand, have been the major contributors to the shrinkage in global output.
But prices for durum that are double those for hard red spring or soft winter wheat should help correct the imbalances next year.
Quote:
A bidding war for durum wheat has erupted between domestic and international buyers, sending prices sky-high.
An international shortage of durum, used to make pasta, has pushed prices to $580 a tonne, $250 higher than what is being paid for wheat to make bread.
Despite the drought, Michael Jaeschke from the South Australian Durum Growers Association says growers get the benefits.
"A bidding war's broken out which is great for growers that have stuck with durum, I have heard of a couple of Italian millers that are here with open chequebooks, cause they need the durum, otherwise they don't, they cease to operate, so for short term pain they're just prepared to pay these huge prices at the moment," he says.
Prices are already starting to moderate as high prices have - surprise, surprise - are expected to bring more supply onto market.
Quote:
"Prices have softened over the past week as the market begins to anticipate some slowdown in consumption and that the small 2007 crop has been fully reflected in current price levels," said Good. "Decisions in the European Union to allow import licenses for 20 million bushels of corn and eight million bushels of sorghum could help ease the tightness in the supplies of feed wheat there.
"In addition, the recent Canadian estimate of the current crop there was a bit larger than expected. Improved weather in Argentina and ideas that the drought damage to the Australian crop has been fully anticipated by the market also contributed to recent price weaknesses."
Prices for the 2008 crop remain well below prices for the 2007 crop as the market anticipates an increase in world wheat acreage in 2008, motivated by the historically high prices, Good noted. In addition, an increase in acreage in the European Union will be accommodated by the lifting of the 10 percent acreage set-aside requirement.
"The acreage response to high wheat prices will unfold over a fairly long period of time," said Good. "Winter wheat producers in the northern hemisphere have the first opportunity to respond to the higher prices as seeding is underway.
In the meantime, there is bread, potatoes, rice, and if you must eat pasta you will notice that the retail price increase of 12-14 cents (euros) per 500 grams - 5 to 6 servings - is likely a lot less than the cost of meat or cheese sauce to put on the pasta. The 12-14 cents is also less than the difference in average price between no-name 59 cent (A$ 0.99) and branded 88 cent (A$ 1.49) pasta.
Quote:
On the Bologna market, the cost of 1kg of durum flour, used to make pasta, had risen in just the last two months from 0.26 euros ($A0.43) to $A0.75, Bragagnolo said. In the Italian supermarket, that would translate by the end of the year into an increase of $A0.20 - $A0.23 on a 500g package, which now typically cost from $A0.99 to $A1.49...
“There is no dish that costs less”: Italy produces only about half of the high-protein durum wheat used to make high-quality pasta and bread; the rest is imported from overseas markets including the United States, Canada and Ukraine. Still, even with the projected increases, the vice-president of the Italian pasta manufacturers’ association, Furio Bragagnolo, said “there is no dish that costs less”. “Whoever decides to strike against pasta will spend more on whatever they buy instead. A plate of pasta probably costs less than an apple.”
Cooking Tip: It is cheaper and uses less energy to use an electric kettle to pre-heat your water for pasta versus cooking it on the stove top. Maybe even 12-14 cents (euros) cheaper, but I have not measured it. p.s. it is faster too! ; - ) _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Joined: Nov 24, 2007 Posts: 26 Location: south OZ , sheep/wheat zone
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
Just for interest , current cash prices of durrum delivered port adelaide are A$605 for durrum 1 and A$580 for durrum 3 grade which is the smallest spread that I have ever seen. Its usually around $50 to 70 plus. note the price is what the farmer recives not free on board (FOB)
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
quote: "Whoever decides to strike against pasta will spend more on whatever they buy instead. A plate of pasta probably costs less than an apple."
I think we're onto something here.
This is exactly why I think commodities across the board can go higher. You cannot protest against a commodity unlike a retail product. For example if you don't like BMW you can buy a Honda. If you don't like Starbucks you can make your own coffee.
However there is only:
oil and NOT oil
wheat and NOT wheat
The only alternative is of course conservation but people never choose that route. It only gets taken out of desperation not choice.
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Pasta panic strikes Italy
For the first time in many years farmers are inserting winter wheat into the corn / soybeans rotations in the richest soils in the floodplains around the Missouri and Mississippi rivers. Mr. Bill's excellent data shows us an Italian pasta price scam, but grain prices have got even the most risk adverse farmers getting in with both feet around here.
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