Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4590 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
RedStateGreen wrote:
I don't know if any of this is true or if I'm being paranoid, but dots do connect.
The world has pretty much always been f-d up throughout all of history, at least somewhere on the planet. It shouldn't be taken as a sign that "they" are carrying out some kind of mysterious depopulation plan. _________________ http://doomsteaddiary.blogspot.com/
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
BigTex wrote:
Devin, I think you are serving up pretty clearly the issues that need to be resolved.
Unfortunately, as I have noted before in this discussion, the issue of "who decides" by itself is enough to derail virtually any proposed "solution." It is easy at this point to say "well, if there is no workable solution, then what is the point in discussing it?" I think that merely articulating the issues in a coherent manner and getting people to agree on how the matter is framed is an accomplishment in itself.
Just because a problem has no satisfactory answer, it doesn't mean that the problem ceases to be a problem, or that thinking about it serves no purpose. I would guess that only a tiny percentage of people are even aware of the real potential dangers that overpopulation represents. If the only effect of this discussion is to make more people aware of the potential problems, I would be content with that.
It's sort of like talking about the meaning of life. The discussion may never lead to any final resolution, but it will probably throw off some interesting ideas and movements along the way. The overshoot and die-off topic is frustrating. You pick it up and you don't like the way it feels, and you put it down and you don't like that much either. You try to resolve it and you feel your mind getting bogged down in a syrup-like double-bind.
I was assuming for the sake of understanding where people were coming from that the question of "who decides" was irrelevant. As far as I can tell, those who advocate for controlled population reduction have not even had the opportunity to really think it through because they've continually felt the need to defend even talking about it. So for the sake of letting these people think it through, I was granting them an imaginary dictatorship where they have the Mandate of Heaven.
Hopefully everyone will at least agree that the questions I raise are important and need to be addressed, in addition to the issue of "who decides".
I agree with others here that the issue is repugnant and full of hubris, and I have already laid out pretty clearly (in my mind, at least, if not in my posts) how I think about these things, but I'd really like to understand where other people are coming from also. I think I have pieced it together for the most part, but I'll wait a bit and let those who take this position take a crack at it first.
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Alright Devin. I will take you up on your offer.
First there are a couple of premises you would have to adhere to:
1. The world as a whole is in overshoot
2. The world as a whole is at the begining of resource depletion
3. Burning fossil fuels is a major cause of Global Warming
4. Allowing Global Warming to go unchecked could possibly lead to the extiction of the human species.
Ok so my dictator believes in the four premises above and believes that culling back the population before we destroy the Earth's ecosystem even more is the answer. So he asks me to come up with a viable plan and implementation of supposed plan.
Who If the world as a whole is in overshoot. it must be directed at the world as a whole.
What method For this scenario let's use ANewHumans approach. Virus.
What time frame In order to keep it from strecthing out and allowing people from decimating whats left of the planets resources and adding to global warming it should be relatively quick. Also the shorter the time frame the less time frame of social unrest or collapse. Let's shoot for a goal of 12 to 24 months.
What outcome A reduction in world populace to a level where there is an abundance of resources and energy to rebuild society in a more sustainable future without the future use of fossil fuels. Without a numbers cruncher on hand let's assume thats 20 to 50% of what the population is now.
So I go to my dictator and I tell him my plan." You need to develop a man made virus. To have the greatest chance of spreading, it needs to have an incubation time of about 14 to 21 days, whith a contagious period of about 7 to 10 days before first symptoms appear. Should have a death rate above 80%. You would also have to have a vaccine already developed and stockpiled with means to mass produce future vaccines.
At about 40% loss of global population, announce you have found a cure and start shipping it around the globe. Figure in another 15 to 20% loss of life before all vaccines have been administered. Which should put us in or around our target goal.
Ground zero for initial virus disbursement should be in a large city.Preferably one or two with major international airports with high traffic.
How realistic This could be very realistic. Considering how some governments have been doing biological reasearch for weapons for some time now.
Why does it matter Well If I can come up with the only logical soluton to a species in overshoot is to cull back the herd. Then I think people in governments can come up with the same solution. You do these mental exercises to see if you can come up with a way to cull the herd similar to theirs and try to plan accordingly.
Tin foil hatters already believe that the NWO wants to eliminate most of us anyways.
Our senario is not about NWO it's about stoping global warming by reducing the number of people therefore reducing fossil fuel use therefore greatly reducing CO2 emissions and so on and so forth.
This senario does not deliver the desired results though. If global dimming is taken into account a rapid removal of 60% of humans within a 12 to 24 month time frame occurs.You destroy global dimming which might cause a rapid global warming releasing all those hydrates even faster. End result possible extinction.
While it still fails it should not be ruled out because it could be used in conjunction with other means to acheive the desired result.
It also shows that you can have a planned and somewhat controled die-off where someone isn't picking and choosing who lives or dies. It's random.
Most should really hate me for this post. _________________ Nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing left to lose but has everything left to gain.
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Mien Furher, it is impossible to ship the inoculation to every corner of the world before the disease spreads. Therefore, we must inoculate the select before hand to guarantee the most deserving members of the species survive. I have mine and your doses right here. Seig Heil !
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Just out of interest, has anyone here had any direct experience of Fascism? Like, did you have older relatives that survived WW2 and maybe talked about what they lived through? Any former Nazis here? Like, anyone that actually knows what the hell they're talking about?
Just interested...
JP _________________ I see a dark sail on the horizon
set under a black cloud that hides the sun.
Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding.
Bring me my cross of gold as a talisman.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
JPL wrote:
Just out of interest, has anyone here had any direct experience of Fascism? Like, did you have older relatives that survived WW2 and maybe talked about what they lived through? Any former Nazis here? Like, anyone that actually knows what the hell they're talking about? Just interested...
former Nazis? no.
but there sure does seem to be a bunch of current ones.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
ANewHuman wrote:
Any time someone mentions the issue of population people start with the genocide, hitler, nazi, satan type labels. I know why this occurs, so that doesn't interest me.
What does interest me is the fact that anyone "Normal" will never bring this issue up. By normal I mean someone who doesn't want to be run out of town by the angry "think of the children" type mob that develops around such issues. ie Presidents, congress people, etc. Why is this interesting? Well it means no solution will ever be developed in such a social climate. No solution, ever.
Why is this an issue? Well it is the biggest crisis facing the human species. The BIGGEST. Bigger than peak oil, bigger than peak water, bigger than peak anything, because it is what makes those things issues in the first place. Without a solution it means widespread disease, war, famine, death. A lot more death occurs in the "natural" approach because it isn't controlled. Like a bush fire.
So when you look at this issue and realize "forced depopulation" could save millions of lives over the "let nature take care of it" approach, what is the more humane approach? Well we know what it is, but just thinking about it makes us all icky inside doesn't it, better to not think about that and go back to making "fark off" signs for the recent pedophile that moved into our street.
I look forward to meeting some of you on the battlefield of the future, our houses and streets. Even in times of the future I will be able to guarantee your irrationality when discussing some things of importance.
Clearly this is a result of the anthropocentric individualist point of view most prevelant in the world. People tend not to think of things in a hollistic viewpoint. I guess its from the evolution of our culture.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4590 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Kristen wrote:
Clearly this is a result of the anthropocentric individualist point of view most prevelant in the world. People tend not to think of things in a hollistic viewpoint. I guess its from the evolution of our culture.
Thanks for the diagnosis, your honor. You must be getting a crick in your neck for looking down at those you disagree with from such a high pedestal.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1264 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
nobodypanic wrote:
JPL wrote:
Just out of interest, has anyone here had any direct experience of Fascism? Like, did you have older relatives that survived WW2 and maybe talked about what they lived through? Any former Nazis here? Like, anyone that actually knows what the hell they're talking about? Just interested...
former Nazis? no. but there sure does seem to be a bunch of current ones.
Aye, just thought I'd ask. Well, more meat for the grinder then. So be it.
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 2130 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Edited by Jack. Removal of comments contrary to the COC.
In conclusion, whilst I am all for relieving this planet of its unwanted surplus, I prefer the non-corporatist and collectivist approach of the pure Marxist to that of the welfare corporatist, the Hitlerite. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 2130 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
Edited by Jack. Removal of comments contrary to the COC.
You should strongly consider the spirit and intent of threads that contemplate depopulation within the context of hitlerist ideas when advocating editing. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
americandream wrote:
You should strongly consider the spirit and intent of threads that contemplate depopulation within the context of hitlerist ideas when advocating editing.
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 2130 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: The issue of depopulation and Hitlerism
For the record, the COC regulation contemplates situations which I suggest the posting of a thread such as this one within the context of the ideas and clear historical evidence of Hitler's atrocities, provokes incitement and is therefore a breach. Please consider this submission when reaching a decision as to whether removal of this entire thread is perhaps in order. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
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