We are entering the stage where ideology and education about sustainability and living within carrying capacity will be augmented by the reality of identifiable consequences of our overshoot. External consequences like the peaking and decline of below ground energy and commodity resources, above ground environmental degradation of our climate, soils, fisheries and climate will have a profound effect on our culture.
2009 is the year when we start to feel it.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 451 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
DoomWarrior wrote:
RedStateGreen wrote:
It seems as though people just think there will be some idyllic mountain area (that no one ELSE knows about) that they can just somehow find (because we're "bugging out into the UNKNOWN"), without being arrested for trespassing, coming across thugs/druggies who have staked out the area already, or falling prey to the elements.
I plan on hiking into the mountains and finding an abandoned lakeside log cabin, complete with fireplace and a kitchen. Please don't destroy that fantasy for me .......
With a year's worth of Mountain House #10 cans of food and a couple of Swedish stewardesses, too? _________________ TANSTAAFL
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 451 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
highlander wrote:
Long-term wilderness living is not "bugging-out." Getting out of harms way for a few days to a few weeks makes good sense. Hence a bug out bag. Having a pre-determined destination is essential, even if it is only "to grandmas house" few will bug out. most will run to the nearest shelter and wait for the relief agency to rescue them. I'll take my chances with the wild critters rather than wait for blackwater et al to "help me"
Ok. I'll buy that. But it presumes a short lived crisis. In most of the scenarios I've heard people cite as reasons for bugging out, the crisis is going to be long term (nukes, super flu, Cubs win World Series). Thus, even if you head for the hills to avoid a short term problem, you end up with a long term problem and no assets to face it with beyond what you can carry on your back. Now, you're a refugee.
I can see a certain logic to planning for flight, but flight itself poses (I think) more problems than staying put in many cases. Caveat: Obviously, if your choice is stay put and die in a nuclear blast, then flight is probably a better option! _________________ TANSTAAFL
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Heineken wrote:
Not only were they more skilled at surviving, conditions for survival were much better than today's. The wild was purer and better stocked with food sources and clean water.
The California mid coast was idyllic 400 years ago. Small and large game was rampant, seafood in the the many coastal sloughs and ebaches was rich, and seasonl events like salmon runs made getting an enormous supply of meat to dry and store was fast (although the preparation took some work). Various edible fruits, nuts and vegetables grow year round, and edible mushrooms are everywhere. Sardines took little work to catch in large numbers. A rain-tight shelter made of the ever-present tulle reed with a few other bodies to keep it warm was the basic technological need.
Now, compared to the past, living off the land is like trying to survive in the Sahara desert. A few could make it, but it will be no fun at all.
To feel pretty sad at what has been lost, read The Ohlone Way: Indian Life in the San Francisco-Monterey Bay Area (Paperback)
Malcolm Margolin
Joined: May 06, 2008 Posts: 504 Location: Omicron Ceti 3
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
benzoil wrote:
DoomWarrior wrote:
RedStateGreen wrote:
It seems as though people just think there will be some idyllic mountain area (that no one ELSE knows about) that they can just somehow find (because we're "bugging out into the UNKNOWN"), without being arrested for trespassing, coming across thugs/druggies who have staked out the area already, or falling prey to the elements.
I plan on hiking into the mountains and finding an abandoned lakeside log cabin, complete with fireplace and a kitchen. Please don't destroy that fantasy for me .......
With a year's worth of Mountain House #10 cans of food and a couple of Swedish stewardesses, too?
Actually, the blond Swedish twins (age 17 and alone) live a few cabins down the road .......
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
DoomWarrior wrote:
benzoil wrote:
DoomWarrior wrote:
I plan on hiking into the mountains and finding an abandoned lakeside log cabin, complete with fireplace and a kitchen. Please don't destroy that fantasy for me .......
With a year's worth of Mountain House #10 cans of food and a couple of Swedish stewardesses, too?
Actually, the blond Swedish twins (age 17 and alone) live a few cabins down the road .......
I wonder if the Swedes know that the Blonde Swedish Female is the preferred reference among American males when talking about the perfect boner-producing specimen?
If they do know, how do they feel about that? _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 451 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Cashmere wrote:
I wonder if the Swedes know that the Blonde Swedish Female is the preferred reference among American males when talking about the perfect boner-producing specimen? If they do know, how do they feel about that?
Given the suicide rate in Sweden, I'd guess that it depresses them. That, or the thought of eating more herring. _________________ TANSTAAFL
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
heineken wrote:
A few years back there was some sort of criminal who escaped into the woods of western North Carolina (I think it was) and managed to hide out there for several years, living like a mountain man of old. Not sure what happened to him . . . maybe he was finally captured.
from time to time there is a show on tv about someone who fabricates an exciting prison escape (through the wire, etc.) and then is relieved when they are caught 24 hours later as they are being devoured by the insects (sometimes they turn themselves in because they are hungry and cold)
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Quote:
PeakOilers, what a disappointment! This thread has been active for over 2 hours and nobody has mentioned the Z-word yet.
Zeus! Zeus! _________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 902 Location: northern California
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
RedStateGreen wrote:
I was just on another forum where the question was posed re: what you would take if you were bugging out 'into the unknown'. Why do people insist on this fantasy?
Is this just a case of "trusting" that "something" will turn up? Some macho "live off the land" wish-fulfillment? Or what? I'm baffled.
This is not necessarily fantasy. In a TSHTF scenario, this is likely to be the reality for the majority. Not everyone has a "grandmother's house" type refuge to retreat to nor do they have the resources to set something up. Of course the majority will not survive in any case, whether they bug-out, bug-in, or report to a FEMA camp. Those with a vestige of free spirit cling to the bug-out scenario, even as a way to die. I'll head to a certain death in the mountains before relinquishing my freedom. _________________ "When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon."
Thomas Paine
Joined: May 06, 2008 Posts: 504 Location: Omicron Ceti 3
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
Cashmere wrote:
DoomWarrior wrote:
benzoil wrote:
With a year's worth of Mountain House #10 cans of food and a couple of Swedish stewardesses, too?
Actually, the blond Swedish twins (age 17 and alone) live a few cabins down the road .......
I wonder if the Swedes know that the Blonde Swedish Female is the preferred reference among American males when talking about the perfect boner-producing specimen?If they do know, how do they feel about that?
Actually, the hot chick in your avatar represents the preferred reference among American males when talking about the perfect boner-producing specimen ........
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1645 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
benzoil wrote:
if your choice is stay put and die in a nuclear blast, then flight is probably a better option!
That is, if you can reach a safe distance. Sometimes it's better to face the inevitable with dignity rather than spending your last remaining minutes in a frenzy. _________________ Conservation is conservative
efarmer wrote:
"Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
RedStateGreen wrote:
I was just on another forum where the question was posed re: what you would take if you were bugging out 'into the unknown'. Why do people insist on this fantasy? ...
I've had to evacuate before (wildfires) and it really makes it much easier if you have a place to go already. We packed important documents, a few changes of clothes, and the kids' toys and went to grandma's.
Grandma makes good cookies. especially in Humboldt
i experience the kind of thought you talk about. my guess is, a lot of other people do, too. i think it's related to the "grass is greener" tendency. i think it's a reaction to the stark realness of dealing with the circumstances of your life - in combination with Peak Oil.
there's also the aspect that Peak Oil is difficult to visualize. i think this affects our tendency to say, "hey man, i'm going to grab a bug-out kit when the deck of card falls, and go live in Armstrong State Park".
some people are successful at "bugging out into the wild". i read an article maybe 4 years ago about a woman & her romance with some guy that was a truly gifted survivalist, some guy that detested Western civilization and was talented enough to make it work. practice makes perfect ! but, as myths go, for those that are unable to do it, it's a pleasant myth. and, a fatal myth, if you're not prepared. _________________ http://www.LASIK-Flap.com/ ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
So what do you take... if you do it?
I think it's noble to retreat to the mountains and invite certain death as a choice above freedom.
I also think it's an interesting idea to lay low in a predetermined area to get away from the disaster- but realistically how long would you have to be there? 6 months, a year? Most likely.
The first winter? Harsh, and not likely survived.
My escape sack: Bagged and labeled seeds, a sleeping bag, full tang knife, fishing line and hooks, lighter(s), a heavy jacket, flour, notebook and pencil, mess kit for two, and rope- 100'. The 357 and plenty of rounds would logically already be on my person.
I've no fantasies about being the only person in a lesser known location. Negotiating skills and proof that I can pull my own weight would certainly be my best assets.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 5076 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: The myth of "bugging out into the wild"
I've already got a Carnival Cruise ship lined up for all of us. They told me that when the $hit goes down, just give them a ring and they'll have a fully prepped/stocked ship ready for us. I'm hoping to charter planes to come and pick everyone up. Bring swimming trunks and lubricants.
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With a year's worth of Mountain House #10 cans of food and a couple of Swedish stewardesses, too?
