Ethanol - What's the point?

baha · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: Ethanol - What's the point?

Suddenly most of the local stations around here are selling gas that's 10% ethanol. I have been watching the effects carefully.

1. Lawnmower sputters and is hard to crank
2. Motorcycle sputters and is hard to crank
3. Both my MR2 (which is fuel injected) and the motorcycle (carburated) get 10% less gas milage

Now it seems to me that if you get 10% less milage with 10% ethanol your actually not saving any gas at all. And in fact you are paying more for it. I thought the whole point was to lessen our dependence on foregn oil. If fact the result is no change except for higher food prices and richer farmers. And there is definately an increase in greenhouse gasses cause you use just as much gas and add to that the fuel the farmer is using too.

There are still a few places I can get real gas and from now on I will. Has anyone else noticed a 10% loss in gas milage with E10? If so, what's the point. 5moped

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f2tornado · Tar Sands Joined: Jun 21, 2008 Posts: 51

I lose about 3 to 4% when using E10 blend. Since I live in the great white north I tend to avoid E10 when possible during the winter as it can make your car more difficult to start in the cold. I will however top off with E10 once every six weeks or so during the winter since corn ethanol is very efficient at removing condensation from the fuel system. You can buy a bottle of Heat for a buck or two to do the same thing but why bother when you can get the same effect for a few nickels at the pump and cheer up some farmer at the same time. Ethanol is not a bad product but corn ethanol provides lackluster returns, particularly given it is heavily subsidized. Big Corn is a lot like Big Oil.

eastbay · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

The loss in mileage I experience is about 10% making ethanol not only a crime against humanity but probably the purest waste of food crops ever invented. It's about as efficient as setting fire to corn fields. In fact, it is setting fire to corn fields!

Except when corn fields are burned ICE engines aren't adversely effected.
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jbrovont · Intermediate Crude Joined: Jun 16, 2006 Posts: 701

I think ethanol was a knee-jerk political reaction to realizing that the United States energy policy was in deep trouble for lack of foresight. Some people realized we could produce some fuel at home, and politically it looked like a good idea. Physics wise, food wise, and ICE wise, it wasn't such a good idea, but on paper it looked better than doing nothing. Now that ethanol is in process, it actually looks like a worse idea than doing nothing, but the big boys already got their slop from the trough. There are stations selling E-85 around here, and mile-for-mile it's a lot more expensive than regular unleaded, but they sell it for less per gallon, so I think some people get sucked into thinking it's "cheaper."

Lanthanide · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

I thought a general consensus on these forums is that petrol etc should be priced higher to force people to conserve more?

Obviously using ethanol isn't the best way to achieve this (taxes that go to government to be spent on renewables is better), but it's better than nothing, right?

eastbay · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

pstarr · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

Ethanol - What's the point?

The point is Bush gave his buddies at ADM and Cargil more grain to process. End of story. Don't look any further for reasons. There are none. You have been played for a sucker if you think there is anything else going on here.
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Micki · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

I of course know ethanol is very inefficient but 10% ethanol mix giving 10% less distance means ethanol as fuel goes 0 (ZERO) distance.
If you add to this the energy that goes into making ethanol, if you still get no distance what so ever, it is 100% end-to-end energy net loss.
Can it really be THAT bad ?????
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ROCKMAN · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

Yes Micki...it is. And then throw in the billions of tax $'s being spent to subsidize the effort.

And pstarr, don't forget ole GW's Democrate Congressional buddies from the corn states that wrote most of the legistlation. There's more than enough stink to rub off on all of them.

Frank · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

10% drop seems too high: I think it works out to 2-3% less energy compared to gasoline, this is what I experienced with our Prius. Perhaps your vehicle can't compensate? Is this a carburated vehicle? The lawnmower I can understand.

skeptik · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

ROCKMAN · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

Regarding E85 mpg I was looking at the specs for the Chevy small V6. E85 highway mpg was 25% lower than regular unleaded. I suspect the same would be similar for everyone's small V6's. Anyone seeing E85 selling for 25% less then reg unleaded anywhere?

dinopello · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

Supposedly, E10 was an oxygenate alternative to the MTBE additive that was causing problems with ground water contamination and subsequently banned. Originally, it was thought of as an emmissions additive not a primary energy source.

VMarcHart · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?

pstarr · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol - What's the point?