How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 307 Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez : Change constitution, elect me forever
Quote:
“De las 5 de la tarde en adelante, el Gobierno intento revertir la tendencia que todos los exit poll decian: No: 60%, Si: 40%. Chavez mando a poner una tarima para celebrar el triunfo y filtraron resultados alterados a las agencias internacionales. En ese juego entraron el CNE (Consejo Nacional Electoral), el alto gobierno, agencias internacionales y algunas encuestadoras aliadas al gobierno
From 5 PM on, the govmnt attempted to fraudulently revert the clear tendency all exit polls were talking about: No:60%, Yes:40% hugo ordered to set up a stand stage to celebrate the triumph and started to filter through altered results to international news agencies. In that play were the cne (hugo´s electoral dept.), highest levels of government and some pollsters firms allied to govnmt..
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5103 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez : Change constitution, elect me forever
Rafa wrote:
... an approbatory referendum;
it was not about Chavez being president, but about a proposed constitutional change.
Hahahahahahaha!
Of course the referendum was about Chavez being president. El Gordo Chavez wants to be president-for-life. The referendum was sponsored by Chavez and backed by Chavez and would have amended the constitution to allow Chavez unlimited terms in office. However, Chavez and his supporters were defeated.
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 307 Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez : Change constitution, elect me forever
Quote:
“Ya a las 9 de la noche el Gobierno sabia que estaba perdido, pero Chavez en ese momento no queria admitir los resultados. Comenzaba una enorme crisis. Baduel se volvio el gran negociador, el propio Chavez admitira despues que fue el el que retraso el primer boletin del CNE.
“Baduel, Chavez, el CNE, el Alto Mando Militar y los factores del No negocian unos resultados que no fueran humillantes para Chavez y aparecen esos resultados cerrados. “Tibisay Lucena (presidenta del CNE) crea una crisis interna dentro del CNE. Su alianza con Chavez hace que se retrasen los resultados y comienza una larga jornada donde los actores del No llegan al CNE, para exigir que se reconozcan los resultados.
Already, by 9 o´clock that evening, the government knew it was electorally lost yet didn´t want to admit the resuts. A new crisis kicked in. General Baduel became the great negotiator. Hugo himself, later admitted him (that general) delayed off the first official bulletin.
Baduel, the CNE and the highest military ranks then negotiated out some not such "humiliating" to hugo results and negotiated the public outcome of the referendum. Lucena (p-resident of hugo´s cne) then creates an internal crisis. Her alliance with hugo makes her to turn this into such long extenuating jorney that pushes the actors for the "no" to move over to their headquarters to "force" such faked results were publicly recognised .
...... from those "confidences".
By the way, how do you all spell "orange revolution" out, ehh??
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 661 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Chavez : Change constitution, elect me forever
btu2012 wrote:
Gosh, another of those leaders for life.
Poor Venezuela.
Whoa, what's the issue here? The proposal was put to a vote and turned down. It wasn't presented as a fait accompli in the middle of the night at the point of a gun or something.
And just because certain American republics don't trust their leadership beyond a few years or think it's wrong for anyone to have more terms than the demigod George Washington served, doesn't oblige the rest of humanity. I don't personally know of any Westminster systems that feature limits on how often the electorate can elect anyone they like; we're entirely free to do so until we get tired of someone. That's up to us, not the constitution. So long as Chavez had to run for election and the people of Venezuela could turf him once they felt the need to, shouldn't that be up to them? Shouldn't it come down to how long he cares to serve and how long they choose to allow him to? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3262 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: Re: THE Venezuela/Chavez Thread (merged)
Chavez May Stop Oil to Europe Over Immigrant Law
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Thursday threatened to stop selling oil to European countries if they apply a new ruling on illegal immigrants that is criticized in Latin America and by human rights groups. …
"Venezuelan oil will not go to the countries that apply this shameful directive. I'll say it now, Venezuelan oil will not go," Chavez said. …
France's Total and Norway's Statoil are among the European companies operating in Venezuela. …
Link _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 2791 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: Chavez threatens EU with oil boycott
Quote:
Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has fuelled the growing rift between Opec oil-producing nations ahead of a major summit this weekend, by threatening to block supplies to European countries.
Meanwhile Iran, also a major oil producer, said pumping more oil would do nothing to stop the surge in prices, after Saudi Arabia revealed that it may be increasing its production again.
As angry protests broke out in China over a sharp rise in its fuel prices today, Chavez said he was enraged by new rules passed by the EU parliament on Wednesday, aimed at standardising the process by which member nations deport illegal immigrants. They contain contentious measures such as providing for long detention periods.
In a televised speech, Chavez said: "Our oil shouldn't go to those countries" in Europe who apply new rules for deporting illegal immigrants. He also threatened to block European investments in his country. Venezuela sells most of its oil to the US and is a minor supplier to Europe.
Europe
PdVSA participates in two joint refining ventures in Europe, with the company holding equity interest in 294,000 bbl/d of refining capacity in the region. PdVSA holds a 50 percent stake in AB Nynas, a Swedish company that operates five refineries: Nynashamm (Sweden), Gothenburg (Sweden), Antwerp (Belgium), Eastham (England), and Dundee (Scotland); PdVSA’s share of this capacity is 50,500 bbl/d. PdVSA also holds a 50 percent stake in Ruhr Oel, in partnership with BP. Ruhr Oel holds ownership stakes in five German refineries, Gelsenkirchen, Neustad, Karlsruhe, and Schwedt, with PdVSA’s share of this capacity at 243,000 bbl/d.
_________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Walter, there is an unspoken message here.
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Chavez threatens EU with oil boycott
You stole one of Cid's post opportunities again. Shame on you. _________________ Peak oil is sort of like a mental Everlasting Gobstopper, except it tastes like ass and you can't get it out of your mouth.
Joined: Mar 28, 2007 Posts: 337 Location: Cambs., UK
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Chavez threatens EU with oil boycott
Chavez threatening oil cuts? It could only be a weekday. _________________ "Nothing survives. Not your parents. Not your children. Not even stars."
-Pinbacker, Sunshine
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 2791 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Chavez threatens EU with oil boycott
Figured Cid for a Zapista at first, was surprised when he started posting all the environmental news. Good contributor, he is. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Walter, there is an unspoken message here.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Venezuela may stop selling oil to Europe
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Thursday threatened to stop selling oil to European countries if they apply a new ruling on illegal immigrants that is criticized in Latin America and by human rights groups.
European Union lawmakers ruled on Wednesday that illegal immigrants can be detained for up to 18 months and face a reentry ban of up to five years.
"We can't just stand by with our arms crossed," Chavez said at an event to celebrate his OPEC country's oil supplies to South America attended by Paraguay's visiting president-elect, who also criticized the law.
Millions of Latin Americans live in Europe, many from poor Andean countries and war-weary Colombia.
For centuries colonized by European nations, after independence Latin America also received waves of European immigrants escaping the major wars and economic crises of the 20th century.
"Venezuelan oil will not go to the countries that apply this shameful directive. I'll say it now, Venezuelan oil will not go," Chavez said.
The socialist ally of Cuba also threatened to expel investments made by such countries, warning he would draw up a list of their business in the OPEC member nation.
"We are ready to do this now," he said. "Here in Venezuela at least, they won't be missed."
Bolivian President Evo Morales on Wednesday said the European law was "racist."
"We, too, could say that we are going to expel those who have looted and stolen from us, those who imposed policies of hunger and misery, those who exported illness, exploitation, discrimination," Morales, an Aymara Indian, said.
link _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Venezuela may stop selling oil to Europe
Well, I fear the oil producing nations will learn they can start dictating politics around the world. Their oil will not go down in price, but just rise autonomically so they will figure why sell it cheap when we can wait a month or two and get much more. And possibly get their way to boot!
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