Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
Quote:
Swamped by debt and rising medical bills, elderly Americans have been seeking bankruptcy-court protection at sharply faster rates than other adults, a study to be released Tuesday indicates.
From 1991 to 2007, the rate of personal bankruptcy filings among those ages 65 or older jumped by 150%, according to AARP, which will release the new research from the Consumer Bankruptcy Project. The most startling rise occurred among those ages 75 to 84, whose rate soared 433%.
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 873 Location: Tustin, CA
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
"Are There no Prisons? Are the work houses still in operation?!
-Ebenezer Scrooge _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
or.........
3) Their former employer who use to provide their health insurance in retirement went belly up, or just discontinued it.
4) They could not afford the cost of supplemental insurance for what Medicare does not cover.
5) They or their spouse suffers a catastrophic health issue-Heart Attack, Stroke,
Cancer. _________________ Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:55 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
Medicare, if not reined in, could be the ruination of this country. About 80% of Medicare dollars are spent in the last 12 months of a patient's life.
For many years, I took care of a beloved elderly aunt and sometimes I'd refuse recommended medical care and the response from medical staff was always the same: "Don't worry, it's free."
To which I'd respond, "It is NOT free. The taxpayers are footing the bill, but it is NOT free."
To which they'd respond, "Well, it's free to YOU."
Point two is, this auntie had zero quality of life but it didn't stop the medical establishment from TRYING to pull out all the stops to keep her alive, no matter the cost. In the end, she passed in peace, but even then, I had to fight tooth and nail to keep modern medicine from poking and prodding and testing and dosing her. It's truly insane.
Third-party, government-sponsored payee systems are a train wreck in slow motion.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
I hate to see bad luck and hard times for anyone much less society's most vulnerable. But, there is always a but, anyone over the age of 65-years old has had their entire life to work, save and invest to provision for their old age. On top of which post-war prosperity means that wages and living standards were rising as well as housing prices that have risen faster than the rate of inflation.
Poor health is a killer. Literally. But financially I would have expected these older folks to be much better prepared and more realistic about their retirement.
At least they had their chance and made their decisions. I feel much worse for the young family who's life-long prospects look gloomier due to the ravages of inflation; poor public policies implemented by older generations; and the uncertainty surrounding post peak oil resource decline.
The Coming Generational Storm indeed. The greatest intergenerational theft in History! _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
[quote="SILENTTODD"]
joeltrout wrote:
or.........
3) Their former employer who use to provide their health insurance in retirement went belly up, or just discontinued it.
4) They could not afford the cost of supplemental insurance for what Medicare does not cover.
5) They or their spouse suffers a catastrophic health issue-Heart Attack, Stroke,
Cancer.
patient - "what happens next ?"
doctor - "you give us all your money."
patient - "what happens after that ?"
doctor - "you die." _________________ http://www.LASIK-Flap.com/ ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
MrBill wrote:
But, there is always a but, anyone over the age of 65-years old has had their entire life to work, save and invest to provision for their old age.
At least they had their chance and made their decisions. I feel much worse for the young family who's life-long prospects look gloomier due to the ravages of inflation; poor public policies implemented by older generations; and the uncertainty surrounding post peak oil resource decline.
Just mentioning: As fond as everyone is of blaming the profiligate boomers, it was the WWII generation that cleaned out Social Security. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Niel made a deal twenty odd years ago to keep it going long enough for them, and it hasn't been fiddled with since.
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 447 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
hope_full wrote:
Medicare, if not reined in, could be the ruination of this country. About 80% of Medicare dollars are spent in the last 12 months of a patient's life.
Just a guess, but isn't that true of ALL medical expenses? I mean, if you're not dying, you're not spending money on health care. And if you don't spend any money, it'll definitely be the last 12 months of their lives.
There's a whole bunch of stuff that is going to bankrupt the US - social security, medicare, endless wars in the Middle East, lack of interest in T-bills by the Chinese, fiat currency, eroding tax base, etc.
As things wind down, the inflationary spiral is going to crush anyone on a fixed income. Look for there to be a series of tearful human interest stories about boomer parents moving in with their kids in the next couple of years - instead of the current batch of "Gen X/Y college grad lives at home" stories.
You'll also see a growing number of a)lawsuits against mandatory retirement laws and b)growing number of people who continue working past retirement age whether they want to or not. You'll see stories about companies (other than WalMart and service sector McJobs) hiring seniors half time to do knowledge work because they can't quite afford to retire.
Dimitri Orlov talks about how old folks fared poorly in the Soviet collapse. He states that one Spring, many fewer old people came out of their dachas to start gardening after the Winter. The rest had perished. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen in the US, but the elderly are definitely the most vulnerable group, post-Peak. _________________ TANSTAAFL
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4867 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
benzoil wrote:
hope_full wrote:
Medicare, if not reined in, could be the ruination of this country. About 80% of Medicare dollars are spent in the last 12 months of a patient's life.
Just a guess, but isn't that true of ALL medical expenses? I mean, if you're not dying, you're not spending money on health care. And if you don't spend any money, it'll definitely be the last 12 months of their lives.
There's a whole bunch of stuff that is going to bankrupt the US - social security, medicare, endless wars in the Middle East, lack of interest in T-bills by the Chinese, fiat currency, eroding tax base, etc.
As things wind down, the inflationary spiral is going to crush anyone on a fixed income. Look for there to be a series of tearful human interest stories about boomer parents moving in with their kids in the next couple of years - instead of the current batch of "Gen X/Y college grad lives at home" stories.
You'll also see a growing number of a)lawsuits against mandatory retirement laws and b)growing number of people who continue working past retirement age whether they want to or not. You'll see stories about companies (other than WalMart and service sector McJobs) hiring seniors half time to do knowledge work because they can't quite afford to retire.
Dimitri Orlov talks about how old folks fared poorly in the Soviet collapse. He states that one Spring, many fewer old people came out of their dachas to start gardening after the Winter. The rest had perished. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen in the US, but the elderly are definitely the most vulnerable group, post-Peak.
Yes and no. Normally, they carry zero debt and they don't have to worry about losing a job either. Plus, driving can be "optional".
No, single Mothers are going to be the most vulnerable group.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
Yep, an S storm is about to hit. Maybe this year, maybe in 2 or 3 years but it is gonna hit.
Some examples:
Many elderly never did accumulate any savings. They just did not plan or just counted on SS to cover them in retirement. What wealth they did have was in their house and now the housing ATM is kaput.
Notice that a common theme in most of the 7 points listed below is that the elderly were/are counting on somone else to take care of them, there was not a lot of personal responsibility shown.
Let me put things together here.
1) Longer life spans
2) Did not save enough for retirement & longer life after retirement
3) Their former employer who use to provide their health insurance in retirement went belly up, or just discontinued it.
4) They could not afford the cost of supplemental insurance for what Medicare does not cover.
5) They or their spouse suffers a catastrophic health issue-Heart Attack, Stroke, Cancer.
6) Their kids can't take care of them because of the two-income trap. Want to see something really scary? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
7) Since the government's control of money is now slipping away thanks to the power of oil (we have to have it and now it is expensive, thus money has to go toward oil purchases leaving no surplus for social programs) the government safety net is going to evaporate.
All-in-all not a pretty story.
As for the big intergenerational wealth transfer, I don't think as much of it will occur as people think. At some point the working age people will just say ENOUGH and since those same people make up the police/military well, it won't happen.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4867 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Bankruptcy rising amongst seniors
Quote:
Some examples:
Many elderly never did accumulate any savings. They just did not plan or just counted on SS to cover them in retirement. What wealth they did have was in their house and now the housing ATM is kaput.
Baloney. It's the younger peeps that are living on credit with - savings. Most of the elderly have investments and or pension plans to draw from. Most of the young have NO pensions and huge debt.
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