House Maintenance Woes: The Next Disaster

Heineken

Cashmere, most of your comments are on-target except the one about frequent painting of cedar siding. Our two structures have cedar siding. They were painted over 10 years ago and are still holding that paint like crazy. The roughness of the cedar gives the paint tremendous traction that resists the peeling process. (Maybe there are different types of cedar siding, some with smoother exterior faces.)

Byron is right to put emphasis on potential roof problems. The roof is as important as the foundation, maybe more so. Many of the McMansions have VAST and complex roofs. That's where the "next disaster" will really get going.

One of my structures (a ranch-style house built in 1986 by me and my dad and added on to in 1991) has a large, fairly complex roof. I worry about it a lot. I'm thinking of trying to replace it with metal, one section at a time, as the money becomes available. I'm a few months away from putting a metal roof on my apartment-over-a-garage.
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TreeFarmer · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 350

I built a new house 4 years ago and while it's quality construciton I wish I would have done a couple of things differently.

What I did:
2300 sq ft with 2 x 6 construction with 9' walls
blown in cellulose insulation in walls and attic (no drafts in the house even on very windy days)
about a 50/50 mix of tile and carpet
Nat Gas heating and hot water
Moderate number of windows
decent sized front and back porches
full size basement with 8' 6" of useable height

What I wish I would have done differently:
I built in a small subdivision, actually within 1 mile of work and the nearest grocery store, and a small downtown area with restaurants, a hardware store, ect. However, I only have 1/2 acre and don't really have a spot for a real garden unless I destory some lawn (which in a pinch I would do in a heartbeat). I also, can't have an out building, part of the restrictions. So, I often find myself thinking I should have built out in the country somewere on 5 plus acres. I could have spent 40k and put down a farm quality nat gas well (one that just produces enough gas to supply my house and barn, and maybe a nat gas vehicle in a pinch for local driving).

I used vinyl windows, I started to use metal but changed my mind. I don't know if I made a mistake or not.

I also used vinyl siding, I wish now I would have bricked it or used the new concrete board that is made to look like wood siding.

I guess time will tell on how good my choices were;

TF

Fishman

Oh come now all, lets think positive! I eye my neighborhood thinking of all the recyclable components of the foreclosed homes. More insulation I can place in my attic, those 2x4s burning in my stove, those windows as a greenhouse, those unemployed masses working cheaply for me. Lets expand on this idea.

MarkJ · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 215

When I build a home with a complex roof design, low pitch roof, multiple valleys, dormers, multiple chimneys etc, I use an additional width and/or full coverage of Grace Ice & Water barrier due snow, driven rain, wind etc. When snow sits in the valleys, or if a storm blows off the shingles, there's no risk of costly water damage

As far as cedar siding and paint, one of my rental properties was painted by the former owner in the 70s. The paint on much of the building was still in good shape although the paint was cheap and the owner wasn't a good painter. The home is in pretty good shape considering it was built in the late 1800s. When I repainted it I bought a bunch of extra cedar siding, but didn't need it since the siding was like new. Many people split wood siding because the nails they're using are too big and/or they're nailing through two courses of siding so the siding can't expand and contract.

Cedar siding is real popular on homes here in the Adirondack region of Upstate New York.

hope_full · Heavy Crude Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 256

Remove a bit of that vinyl-sided crap from your McMansion 20 or 30 years after installation and you're likely to find a smorgasboard of mold, mildew and micro-organisms that are having a field day feeding on trapped moisture and all the etceteras that arise from decaying organic matter. It's even worse if the substitute sidings are added to an existing house (over wooden sidings).

Wood is not maintenance heavy if it is properly painted and maintained and part of the maintenance is keeping roofs and gutters in working order. Problem is, most of the best painters are now dead and buried. You can't slap an acrylic based paint on a naturally oily wood (like cypress or cedar). Painting is a learned skill and an art and many of those artisans are retired or dead.

I work (and live and move and breathe) in the field of historic preservation. Your argon-gas-filled vinyl-clad thermopane windows may be more energy efficient for the first 20 years but none (with which I'm familiar) are servicable and they must be replaced when they start to leak and fail. Old wooden double-hung windows are less efficient but they are simple and well-designed and can be repaired again and again and again.

There's a lot of talk on this board about self-sufficiency and that should extend to our homes, too. THere's a lot to be learned about the way "things used to be" and my work has involved studying architecture and craftsmanship from the early 1900s. Our old homes were very, VERY intelligently designed and purposefully created with features that could be repaired - rather than replaced.

How many people at this board even know how to change out a window weight and repair a sash cord? How many people alive today even know about window weight pockets? Do you know why there's an old lead-lined tank in the attic of your old house? Or why the downspouts disappeared underground? These houses were around long before we had electricity and they can teach us so much about living (again) with OUT electricity.

Did you know why painters chose blue for the porch ceiling? It was because mud-daubers and hornets will not build a nest against a blue ceiling. I could go on for days, but my point is, don't denigrate the things of yore. Take a moment and think about applying a little reverse engineering to old homes. Despite having labored in this field of historic architecture for more than 15 years, I continue to be awe-inspired by the intelligence expressed in the construction of older homes.

HF

Ferretlover

Roofs are going to be a big problem. What to use to replace those FF shingles?
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Byron100

frankthetank

I've seen sheds built better then new homes.

My problem with homes today: SIZE!
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MarkJ · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 215

The very large custom built homes (especially lakefront homes) in my area are generally the best built homes. Since there's no profit in smaller homes, newer smaller homes are generally mobile homes, cheap modulars or mid sized (2,000 to 2,500 sq/ft) cookie cutter boxes in developments. Even some of the development homes in the Northeast are pretty decent quality. Regardless of the materials used, the skills and knowledge of the builder, general contractor, subs and their employees are responsible for build quality as well as the building inspectors.

Once the old timers stopped maintaining some of the older city homes, the condition of many of the homes deteriorated to the point where they really need to be gutted or demolished. The cost of restoration including lead & asbestos abatement, foundations, concrete work, structural repairs, drainage, roofing, ventilation, insulation, windows, painting, custom woodwork, drywall, plaster, brick, stone, electrical, plumbing, boilers etc forced people to abandon or demolish many older historical homes.

There are fewer multi-skilled, self sufficient types willing to climb ladders, walk on roofs, swing hammers and perform their own maintenance and repairs. People generally don't fix something until it fails these days whether it's their roof, windows, boiler furnace, water heater...

Cashmere · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1971

MarkJ · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 215

I never use vinyl siding, but my biggest problem with vinyl siding besides the trailerseque appearance is that people often use it to cover up an already rotted existing home. Between the vinyl and trim boxing in the home, windows, eves and soffits, the siding and trim is covering a lot of rot, plus holding in a lot of moisture. People use vinyl siding to polish turds since it's fast, cheap, low maintenance and any unskilled high school dropout can install it.

Pops

Yea, Henie maintenance on new homes will be a bear. Our old place (ca 1916) is framed with oak, but it is a real race for us to upgrade the insulation and windows.

It has vinyl siding installed 15 or so years ago but when it falls of the original siding and sheathing below is still in great shape.

The latest project is rebuilding the front porch that was barely standing due to a leaky, low pitched, flat seamed and soldered metal roof.
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patience · Expert Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1683

The problem of outgassing materials is why I haven't finished our sunporch yet. I don't want to breathe that stuff. So, I've kept it shut up for a week at a time, then open all doors and windows to let the fumes out. After 2 1/2 years, it is beginning to stink less of urea formaldehyde glue, plasticizer vapors, and petoleum fumes.

Public radio carried a story last week about a young Chinese couple who had bought a new apartment, but would not occupy it for a year for this reason. The lady was pregnant and would not expose herself to the fumes, nor the baby when it is born. A common practice in China, she said. They will live with her parents another year!

Our 1970's vintage house has brick veneer, a new metal roof, aluminum soffits and gutters. Only windows need painted infrequently due to large roof overhangs. I hate painting. I went for vinyl windows on the new part, metal doors, concrete floor, and masonry wall on the south. Only two 8 ft. end walls are vinyl sided, then primed and painted to slow UV and oxidation damage. I probably won't need to mess with it much in the next 20 years, and then I'll be 82 and won't give a damn about it.
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