For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
worrier wrote:
I live in Wellington and it has a really good public transport system. I have a 10 minute walk to train station, 10 minute train ride to the CBD, and I also have a bus alternative if I want it. Wgtn does get more wind that other cities, but that also means no smog. There are lots and lots of wilderness areas very close to the city, you have lots of different places to choose to go, from easy walks or serious weekend tramps. There are a range of beautiful beaches to go to, some actually in Wgtn city, others from 1/2 hour to 1 hours drive away.
This has been a message from the Wellington promotional bureau (slogan: Wellington- it's not really that much windier than other places).
While it's true that welly has some nice beaches, so does Stewart Island. The real measure of a beach is whether you suffer hypothermia after a few minutes of full immersion. Welly's beaches fail this test in mid-summer. I'm sorry worrier but you know this is true. And when TSHTF I'd rather be living in a climate that will grow just about any species you want to name, rather than one that is great for potatoes.
On the bright side, there's still an occasional train service up the north island, so there's still time to head for Auckland while you have the chance...
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
yeahbut wrote:
While it's true that welly has some nice beaches, so does Stewart Island. The real measure of a beach is whether you suffer hypothermia after a few minutes of full immersion. Welly's beaches fail this test in mid-summer. I'm sorry worrier but you know this is true. And when TSHTF I'd rather be living in a climate that will grow just about any species you want to name, rather than one that is great for potatoes.
Won't global warming take care of that? Seems like the best long term location is one a little colder than you'd prefer, with the asumption it's going to go up at least a few degrees in your lifetime.
Joined: Apr 16, 2008 Posts: 40 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
NZ benefits greatly from deluded citizens of foreign nations who think the grass is somehow greener here, the reality is often statistically worse, however post peak oil as we almost certainly now are, NZ is shaping up to be a great place to make a stand. We just need to POers to agree on a location for a community and get started, united we stand etc etc _________________ "I'm here to fight for truth, and justice, and the American way" - Superman
Moped
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
Well mate, I live in Auckland and have seen a reasonable chunk of the world. I have lived all over NZ and all I can say is that it suffers from most of the ills of the western world , only less so. If those "ills" are to include longevity and comfort and a pleasant remoteness, then so be it. A good American friend of mine once opined "bah, every country's got a million beautiful vistas" and he's right, so look brightly wherever you are, and remeber, it's pretty but there aren't wild fruit to live on in the forest. If it's a generally secure place you seek then come on over. Geophysicists are actually in quite high demand here , ironically due to oil exploration becoming a serious game here. SOuthern Basin and Taranaki are both humming. People I know in the oil industry are feeling very smug, so there;s big news afoot. Two have put it very bluntly that NZ will be a substantial nett exporter in the near future. Further into the PO conundrum, when the crap does hit the fan (or rather the fan winds down and the crap level creaps up) I suspect we're pretty much ideal for the battern-down period where national/cultural survival will be reliant on low usage/efficient production (of energy) models. Oztralier is also in an enviable position in this respect. Come down here, make friends (very easy), take 5(easier), drink wine(easier still), drive a mint 1960s Merc or Citroen (if you want to be cool ! LOL) and live in Wellington area if you're cafe-culture-chardonnay-socialistist-ic- theorist and outer Auckland if you're a sailer and love beaches.. and don't have to commute to the centre of the city each day. Central Otago is spectacular as well, and well worth a look. Queenstown's the Southern Hemispheres version of Aspen, and you can read that how you like! LOL. Americans are welcome, by and large.... so long as they don't brag or talk loudly. The odd one does and Kiwis just don't go for this , neither with others nor each other. Pretty much more like Canucks than Aussies in that respect.... Infact that analogy applies in many national traits, come to think of it. Cheers Bro . Kia Ora. Kia Kaha. PS the guy who said vast tracts are being opened for development was talking rubbish; the reason land costs so much here is that so little is allowed for development. We treasure our pastoral vicinities to the cities, at personal and parlimentary levels. Try subdividing a farm, or even lifestyle block; it's very dificult, and so it should be.
Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 17 Location: berrigan NSW OZ
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
goodone SOUP NZ isnt called godzone for nothing!!
in apost peak world nz is looks like a winner:
it has all 4 main renewables ; solar ,wind , geothermal and wave
a warmer planet will benefit some parts ie south of taupo
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
kiwichick wrote:
goodone SOUP NZ isnt called godzone for nothing!!
in apost peak world nz is looks like a winner:
it has all 4 main renewables ; solar ,wind , geothermal and wave
a warmer planet will benefit some parts ie south of taupo
just dont buy ahouse by the coast!! cheers bro
Smugness and complacency are not pretty to observe, or helpful in any way. If TSHTF in the full doomer magnitude predicted by many here, it's gonna be freakin ugly everywhere. NZ will be no exception. Our infrastructure is a very long way from being ready. We have planned and built for the car, and run down the railways, for generations and indeed will shortly elect a govt that will do more of the same. We are furiously converting forestry land and low intensity farmland to the most destructive, energy-intensive type of farming- dairy. Our food production and processing systems are more centralised and less localised with every passing year,and we don't produce the wide variety of crops we need to be self-sufficient. We hardly manufacture anything, anymore.
Not only are we far, far from post-peak ready, we're busily heading in the wrong direction. There is absolutely no reason to think it's all gonna be sweet as round here. Maybe better than lots of other places, sure. But that could be a very relative concept indeed if things get properly bad.
Sorry kiwichick, I've had a long day, and anyway, I thought I'd get in before cashmere got here. Posts like yours have him smacking his lips and getting both barrels ready
Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 17 Location: berrigan NSW OZ
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
nz will be a winner comparativly speaking. the three essentials food water and shelter are all doable
as for your dairy farming comment nz has arguably the most efficent dairy farming system and therefore nz should be one of the countries to keep dairying. dairy farmers are keeping nz out of recession at the moment
Joined: Aug 02, 2008 Posts: 17 Location: berrigan NSW OZ
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
how long have you been dairy farming yeahbut?
any farming draws on resources but:
a nz is mainly grass fed system
b nz cows are more efficent
c any farmers caught degrading waterways face stiff penaltys
d water won't be a issue
e sorry keeping nz out of a deep recession
have a nice day
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
kiwichick wrote:
how long have you been dairy farming yeahbut?
It would be a pretty short conversation if only dairy farmers were allowed to talk about dairying! Everything would be sweet as with nothing to report, I'm sure
kiwichick wrote:
a nz is mainly grass fed system. b nz cows are more efficent
Quote:
Urea application has nearly quadrupled in under ten years - the vast majority of this being on dairy farms. More urea means more cows to the acre and even more nutrients —and E coli bacteria in the rivers. The hardest challenge is in areas like the Taupo basin and around the Rotorua lakes where we have a stark choice if we are to save our lakes we need to reduce stocking densities overall.
(from a june '05 Jeanette Fitzsimons speech to the Dairy Farmers of New Zealand AGM) link
kiwichick wrote:
c any farmers caught degrading waterways face stiff penaltys
Quote:
A recent report by Environment Waikato has found that up to 57% of dairy farmers are non-compliant with the conditions of their effluent management resource consents and 16% were seriously non-compliant.
kiwichick wrote:
d water won't be a issue
That's beyond complacency, it's lack of information. You need to do some reading up on this one. Drought is frequently an issue in various parts of NZ, last summer being an excellent example. The drought-prone Canterbury plains has massive water issues already, and the dairy conversions go on(not to mention that the climate change you mentioned earlier predicts an even drier east coast in the future).
Quote:
Over 30% of dairying land is irrigated - it is only irrigation that has enabled widespread conversion of Canterbury farmland to dairying, with some 600,000 cows there now. Yet, with its shallow and stony soil, Canterbury is one of the least suitable areas for dairying. Already, after little more than a decade of widespread dairying on the plains, we are seeing nitrate contamination of groundwater — a health hazard to those drinking it.
Irrigation and runoff work together to degrade rivers — more pollution in and less water to dilute it...Canterbury Regional Council has now declared red zones where ground water is already over allocated and several rivers are in the same state.
NIWA, New Zealand's premier water quality research institution, published its study into the state of the nations waterways. It looked at many aspects of rivers but the most startling conclusion was that 95% of lowland waterways are too polluted to swim in, not to mention to drink from. Many are even too polluted to be used for stock drinking water.
kiwichick wrote:
have a nice day
you too. All the best from Ak, currently blessed(cursed)with an over-abundance of water resources, which as an outdoor worker I am horribly familiar with
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
How do the natives feel about this? Just curious. I've heard logistical arguments both ways, but haven't seen many opnions from people in NZ. Anyone hail from there?
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Yet another American (possibly) moving to New Zealand
kiwichick wrote:
yeahbut check the latest fert applications for 08
guess what urea is produced from
water might be a problem now but won't be in the future
doesn't mean it will be cheap
maybe you should do some research on water
we are in the middle of the worst drought in oz history (recorded)
and yet they have one answer in their faces
will be interesting to watch where it goes first
Urea's generally made from natural gas isn't it? So as natural gas prices go up, so will the price of urea-based fertilizers. Actually, from what I've read recently, dairy farmers have started making much more sparing applications of fertilzer, not so much because of stricter environmental regulations hitting home, but rather due to the sky-rocketing price of fertilzer.
How will water not be a problem in the future? Climate change forecasts suggest that the drier parts of New Zealand are going to get drier and the wetter parts will get wetter in the future. So all these inappropriately located dairy farms on the South Island's already dry east coast are going to face even greater water supply problems in the next few decades. We could do a lot more to use agricultural and urban water more efficiently, and find more creative ways to reuse our dirty water, but I think the only way we could maintain a lot of dairy farming on the east coast would be to somehow bring West coast water over. And this is an idea that I would certainly not support.
I agree with KiwiChick that New Zealand will be better off than many other countries in a PO future, but not if we just try to continue with the status quo. Rising oil and other energy prices will make pumping water, fertilizing fields, transporting cattle and milk, operating milking sheds and processing plants and shipping dairy products to the other side of the world much more expensive. We'd be far better off to shift our focus to more diversified and sustainable agricultural production for the New Zealand market, rather than continue trying to be the world's cheese factory.
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