Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 3426 Location: Oh really?
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
You can have it both ways, and here is how:
Have two classes of threads, tightly moderated, and loosely moderated. The "tight" threads are moderated at the complete discretion of the author. The "loose" threads are moderated under the general guidelines.
The "tight" thread requires some method to allow the authors to edit their threads.
I am not familiar with the limitations of this board structure. Giving thread authors control may require giving moderation status, which would mean the ability to start "tight" threads would be limited to certain posters, because obviously the site can't be handing out moderation controls to just anyone that wants to start a tight thread.
Having authors put through moderation requests for their "tight" threads won't work, the work load will drive the current moderators away.
You could start a second set of "sub moderators", which would be posters that have moderation control, but only use the controls only for moderating specific threads.
There should be a workable solution here that allows free speech to rule while also allowing the "polite engagement" crowd a place to particpate more freely(I do believe we chase quite a few potential posters away over this).
The concept of "tight" and "loose" threads fills the need perfectly, if it can be engineered to work under this existing structure _________________ "It's not demand; It's not supply.
It's coming up with credit to buy"
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3642 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
I voted 'unsure.'
Generally, I think the format is fine-at least, *I* have no trouble finding my way around.
I think that I would prefer that the oil-specific threads be kept on topic as closely as possible, and that they be open to registered folks as well as the lurkers.
As for the other forums/threads, I think those should be open to "family" only-registered people.
I often read and post in the Open Discussion forum. I look forward to to posters points of view, and I often learn things of which I had not thought, and/or make adjustments in my perceptions due to additional information.
And, sometimes, I am just looking for interaction with people who understand how Peak Oil is affecting me. No matter how fast PO is moving into the MSM, we are still a small percentage of people.
I kinda think that lurkers should only be allowed so many visits-then, required to register or stop looking. This option would need to be posted on the first page so they would be aware of their options.
The Ignore button works fine. Three out of the four I have put on Ignore have disappeared.
I would agree that if there are personal, hot-tempered conversations, the posters should be doing it by email or pm, with their offending posts deleted. If they can't behave in public, they can't be in public. Maybe, just maybe, they will learn to behave if they have points they wish to share.
It Is a bit difficult to wade through the exceptionally long threads. I have tried using the Search button, and if I don't stress the 'in title' choice, the search return often looks like 'the last 24.' Or, it returns nothing at all-when I know I was just reading something about it!
Perhaps the thread titles should have something like... well.. say there are four different threads about China. Then, label them all as China: Dam breaks, China: Fireworks Fizzle, etc. It would be easier to compare all the things happening in China and how they interact without have to search random input in twenty other threads that were not initially about China. Sub threads? Or just all threads about one topic in one place. I am not sure how to do this-I am about as computer savvy as I am knowledgible about Economics
There is also this: When one does a search, and the threads op up, would it be possible that when one clicks on a thread, it would go to the first mention of the item searched for?
I am thinking that the Freedom of Speech is going to become more dear in the future, and I would not like to see it lost here. But, I wonder what value there is in seeing someone post scantily clad females over and over with thinnly(sp?) veiled comments about their attributes and/or what the poster would like to do to/with them.
I most strenuously(sp?) object to the racism. I realize that everyone is entitled to their own point of view (right Or wrong), but, there are a couple of posters who seem intent on ramming their views down the throats of anyone who attempts to put forth another point of view. There is no relevence to the topic being discussed, just attacks. Those are, IMHO, a definite waste of time and space.
Thank you for being here-I might just make it because PO.com existed. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1583 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
I don't really care for the clutter that tries to pass as occult or esoteric. It has little relevance to Peak Oil or for that matter anything impacting most people's lives.
Could we at least have a "Hall of Weird" and stuff all the Planet-X, Illuminati, Ancient Astronuts and all of Golem's posts into one little corner of the room. It could be hosted by Leonard Nemoy. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
alpha480v wrote:
Don't eliminate the Open Discussion forum. It is a necessary place to talk about topics besides peak oil. Granted, there are many topics in open discussion that are garbage. Just don't respond to the posts. Don't feed the trolls. It's that simple. Eventually the garbage posts die, and the trolls move on.
The hall of flames I could care less about. Maybe getting rid of this would help with peak oils credibility. I would think that someone new to peakoil.com for the first time would be turned off by what he or she reads in the hall of flames. Some of the posts in this section make us look like a fringe group that can't be taken seriously.
We are coming to the place now of having to live up to our own supposed standards, or to finally have some. If someone know's Hall of Flames get's deleted what stops them from flaming a thread to kill it?
I like the idea of giving more control to the thread creator but that would probably require alot of scripting.
As for the mod's I think they do a good job, but tend to allow too much mudslinging and personal attacks. You could save bandwidth by saving open discussion and tightening control on other areas. So for instance the mods work with the thread creator for threads deemed useful to determine which posts rise to the level of essential, other posts ge a five day window to be valued and then are gone.
Nothing really stops this all from becoming alot of work in a hurry. Also, when you have people who decide they do not like a certain viewpoint, what is to stop them from squatting in a thread, flaming, baiting etc. if the goal here is to help people learn about, deal with , and advocate for action regarding peak oil and related issues that should take priority. beef up the news feed so that we don't get ten thread everytime OPEC makes another stupid pronouncement.
There are a million ways this could go.
Maybe the easiest would be to start with the oldest posts and start culling. The posts that do not add content can go.
My concern would be that we would start to see here the same type of political and culture wars that affect our broader society. That the rhetoric of right and left will give way to actual battles for control of the message itself.
This would do a great disservice to the overall influence of this site which is one of the only places you can really come to just hash it out and work your way through peak oil whatever you perspective on life.
Most of the nonsense posts come from trolls so when they make one follow through and give the warning and delete the post. After a couple warnings for obvious abuses block them from every forum except open discussion (if that is possible), this way you don't condemn them but you immediately get rid most of the noise in the important forums.
A few ideas. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Hermes wrote:
I've always been impressed by how slashdot.org deals with this.
For those that don't know: slashdot.org is a news site for high tech news. I don't FULLY understand how it works, but I'll try and summarize:
When a news posting happens, users can respond in a threaded forum. Other users can then somehow use points to put a value on the various postings. A posting starts out at level 1 (I think...) and then others can throw their support behind it to move it up to level 2, then level 3, etc up to level 5. Conversely I believe that users can also knock a posting DOWN a level if they believe it's not worthy.
The kicker is: people 'earn' these points. So I believe that people really think before 'spending' a point on a posting to boost it up a level.
Moreover when viewing the threads a viewer can filter them for any value level. This means that you can view only the highest (5) level postings, or maybe the highest and very good (4 and 5) or the pretty good, very good and highest (3,4 and 5) etc.
This moves most of the 'work' into the hands of the users. They end up self-moderating the threads, and self-filtering them when they're viewing. If a person is interested in ONLY viewing the postings that are considered high quality they change their viewing threshold to 4 or 5, and if they want to be entertained (or have a LOT of time) they leave it at 1. And if a person is angry at a posting, they can have an effect on it by modding it down a level.
Now that said: peakoil.com uses phpbb as its underlying technology right? I'm not sure that it can deal with what I'm talking about. Like if there's a plugin or something that can allow this to happen or not.
If you could take a look at slashdot.org and see what I'm talking about it's pretty sweet, and would probably address most of the concerns that people are bringing up.
The idea of a filter for rated threads sounds perfect. Then the threads can be given key words under the forum headings so that people can find what they are looking for. They won't need to leave blue streaks in other people's threads or post 200 times to assert how ridiculous and useless they think the OP is. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
I think I would like to see more racist threads end up in the hall of flames, or at least know what they are so that I don't have to start reading them. They can rant at eachother in the anti-semitic thread someplace in the hall of flames.
Just my 2 cents. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Peakprepper wrote:
I've been a peaker for a while, but I only joined this site recently.
7) One thing I feel should perhaps be enforced (and hands up, I am an offender!) is to use your profile better, and enter your real location, and perhaps your age - it would encourage peeps to meet up and swap productive ideas or help each other if they are near to each other. People would then maybe talk about it here, and encourage more people to do the same. As things start to deteriorate, you would hopefully see this virtual PO community spawning real ones.
Are you serious? Based on some of the things that get said around here I would be afraid if some of these people knew where I lived. That why I agree with shutting down the ad hominens and banning people who use abusive language in a post. There are enough places for sociopaths to ply their wares on the web. This site has helped me through a revelation that changed my entire concept of our civilization. The site needs to carry on. No doubt about that. I will never again make real contact with people through the site. My nearest friends know who I am, and I think some whackos out by Mosinee have a clue, but beyond that anonymity is essential on the current Internet.
I am hoping we will see Grid 1.0 soon where we can start putting some heat on the criminals that exploit using the web, which I consider a more heinous crime because of the inherent weaknesses of online identification.
I do applaud the afforts that were made to get rid of some of those who were really being nasty on the site. I noticed that difference about ten months ago and it has made coming here alot less stressful. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Joined: Jan 02, 2008 Posts: 403 Location: out dispatching ronan...
Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Entropy people!
en·tro·py
1. For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.
2. A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
3. A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
4. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
5. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
This topic is highly ironic, given that most analysis of the societal aspects of peak oil discuss entropy as a core dynamic. Trying to control, or otherwise rescue peakoil.com from random increases in chaos is a futile exercise.
I have been a member of many forums previously, and inevitably, entropy brings about this kind of discussion. And any attempt top enforcing control on the system fails. Usually, this marks the decent of the forum, more so, than the chaos it was trying to prevent.
Like JC_Tyler said...
Tyler_JC wrote:
We should use negative reinforcement to encourage people to write intelligent threads.
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Re: The Future of peakoil.com
Pops wrote:
Considering there have been only 7 posts to this thread in a year and a half I guess we are doing OK.
Or nobody could find it _________________ All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become. - Buddha
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