Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
They are the only remaining old-fashioned empire, who divided Europe for 60 years due to their imperialist ambitions.
Still they get a free ride due to left-wing intellectual fashions, which is quite uncommon. Amazingly many of these fashionable intellectuals are Europeans, so really they should know better.
It's really interesting to think how much more flack the Germans get even though the Russians did worse.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
btu2012 wrote:
Then Polish TV needs to be more careful with Ukrainian sentiment, since the Ukrainians I know don't agree with your imperialist theories.
Perhaps Polish TV don't really care about that?
Quote:
Of course genetic studies disagree with the claim above.
Did you carry out these?
Quote:
They also look recognizably slavic to most people, and recognizably non-Russian.
That may be due to secondary raping.
Eg. Mongolians were raping first for ca 2 centuries and then after they were defeated and forced to retreat (by Poles and Russians incidentally), Poles and Russians started running battles there and carry on raping locals who were already of grossly Mongolian blood.
Soon after Poles and Russians found this nice entertainment, Turks started feeling jealous and joined a party.
Btw. That party was going on until about 1948.
Quote:
Their language is of course not Russian either, nor is their culture. It should also be mentioned that they come across as much more civilized than the average Russian, which is supported by the superior architecture and culture found in Kiev as apposed to Moscow.
That is completely unfounded assertion.
Quote:
Regarding the Russian implanted by the Empire in Eastern Ukraine, perhaps they should be ethnically cleansed the way Abkhazians did with Georgians. What about that ?
I think, the best way forward for Ukrainians is to try exactly that and face swift consequences to end up their pain.
Quote:
No, are you ? You seem to know better than Ukrainians what their identity is as a people.
Story of Ukrainians is very well known in Poland and Russia.
Ukraine was actually a part of Poland and Russia through history.
Certain parts were also administered by Turks from time to time.
Current developments are of rather transient nature. Russians are already thinking what to do about it.
Quote:
Certainly, and organized Muskovy is a state which most do not admire.
I have never heard about such entity, therefore I really do not know, what is to be admired.
I have to ask FSB officer to provide some lecture about this interesting subject, so I will have possibly broad opinion about it.
Quote:
EU, you seem to be very influenced by Russian propaganda, which frankly is quite shocking. Be careful what you say if you visit Ukraine.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
That may be due to secondary raping. Eg. Mongolians were raping first for ca 2 centuries and then after they were defeated and forced to retreat (by Poles and Russians incidentally), Poles and Russians started running battles there and carry on raping locals who were already of grossly Mongolian blood. Soon after Poles and Russians found this nice entertainment, Turks started feeling jealous and joined a party.
I had a great laugh EU Love your theory on the formation of peoples.
I do think that Kiev has much better architecture than Moscow. But I agree that Moscows' is BIGGER. No doubt however that New York's architecture is tallest. Actually, it was until the Petronas Towers or such. Now Asia is no 1. Soon to be overtaken by Dubai.
I personally never found more rude people than the drunkards and hooligans of Moscow. That aspect of the great capital beats the more seedy parts of most cities I know by a mile.
Muscovy is the old name given by Western sources to the state now called Russia, before it became the Russian empire. In the old times it was meant to distinguish it from Ruthenia, about which I am sure that you know a lot.
link and link
The two were always distinct cultural and linguistic areas, as even your FSB handler surely understands. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
btu2012 wrote:
They are the only remaining old-fashioned empire, who divided Europe for 60 years due to their imperialist ambitions.
Still they get a free ride due to left-wing intellectual fashions, which is quite uncommon. Amazingly many of these fashionable intellectuals are Europeans, so really they should know better.
It's really interesting to think how much more flack the Germans get even though the Russians did worse.
A bit too vague answer imo. Last empire, a free ride.. Are you envious of their free ride given by some people most Russians have never heard of? Thats gotta be personal. Since you don't want to reveal your nationality I assume its one of that list you posted before. You just have too much passion here , even for this self-glorifying retard you have discussion with.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
Not one of those nationalities I want Russia to be held accountable for its imperialism and murderous rampage through Europe and the "near abroad". Like the Germans were held accountable for what they did in WWII.
And I want the Russians to start telling the truth about history, and to teach honest history to their children. Since they want so much to be "respected" by Europe. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
btu2012 wrote:
And I want the Russians to start telling the truth about history, and to teach honest history to their children. Since they want so much to be "respected" by Europe.
Dream on! Everyone has his own truth, Russians are no exeption!
I tell you what, once I had a very knowledgeable, smart and interesting history professor. I enjoyed his lessons a lot, and still remember a lot of stuff. But he had this thing, he hated everything what starts with "ukr" --Ukrainians, Ukraine, Ukrainian language, Ukranian culture, whatever that has any relation. I am not sure why-- may be he hates himself for not doing anything during the time Ukraine got its independency, or may be he resents his Mom (Grandma?) riding a Ukrainian cock , so he is not a real Russian I guess, since he had a Ukrainian second name. He was from Rostov as well as most if not all of his family for at least 4 generations.
So you forget that History is probably the biggest prostitute of all sciences and can be twisted into any position you like. You can emphasize some things, omit others, interpret differently third ones. For example one could say that Ukrainians are of Mongolian/Tartar blood and forget to mention that ancestors of modern-day Russians ( mongrels between slavic settlers and local finno-ugric tribes ) were raped by Mongols 2 times longer, and actually have an etnic border with most of those Tartars, thus even more mongrelization. How hard is it to find a Russian with high cheeckbones and tiny asian eyes? But anyway, the word "Russian"itself, in Russian language, didnt mean a nationality till probably19c or so. All nationalities in Russian are defined with nouns, while "Russian" is an adjective. If you look into the scripts of the time when Kievan Rus desintegrated, you won't see any nationality/tribe described as "russian". There are were Polyans, Drevlyans, Vyatich, you name it.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
Pretorian wrote:
Dream on! Everyone has his own truth, Russians are no exeption!
That's true, but certain things are out of bounds, such as the new manuals in Russia praising Stalin as the best leader of the modern era.
Quote:
I tell you what, once I had a very knowledgeable, smart and interesting history professor. I enjoyed his lessons a lot, and still remember a lot of stuff. But he had this thing, he hated everything what starts with "ukr" --Ukrainians, Ukraine, Ukrainian language, Ukranian culture, whatever that has any relation. I am not sure why-- may be he hates himself for not doing anything during the time Ukraine got its independency, or may be he resents his Mom (Grandma?) riding a Ukrainian cock , so he is not a real Russian I guess, since he had a Ukrainian second name. He was from Rostov as well as most if not all of his family for at least 4 generations.
Maybe he wanted to be Russian, some people want to joint their oppressors -- the Stockholm syndrome and all that.
Quote:
So you forget that History is probably the biggest prostitute of all sciences and can be twisted into any position you like. You can emphasize some things, omit others, interpret differently third ones. For example one could say that Ukrainians are of Mongolian/Tartar blood and forget to mention that ancestors of modern-day Russians ( mongrels between slavic settlers and local finno-ugric tribes ) were raped by Mongols 2 times longer, and actually have an etnic border with most of those Tartars, thus even more mongrelization. How hard is it to find a Russian with high cheeckbones and tiny asian eyes?
I was pondering whether to say this to Energy Unlimited at some point but then I though that I shouldn't encourage this sort of "anthropology".
Quote:
But anyway, the word "Russian"itself, in Russian language, didnt mean a nationality till probably19c or so. All nationalities in Russian are defined with nouns, while "Russian" is an adjective. If you look into the scripts of the time when Kievan Rus desintegrated, you won't see any nationality/tribe described as "russian". There are were Polyans, Drevlyans, Vyatich, you name it.
That's why it's so strange to have theories that everyone there is "Russian". According to Energy Unlimited and others Ukraine etc are supposedly provinces of Russia (by which we are supposed to understand Muscovy), even though Muscovy was a non-entity during the formation of the first organized Rus state, which was Ruthenian and started around Kiev.
I think that there is such a thing as basic honesty in history, i.e. let's not contort the poor lady to the point of breaking her arms. Russia will never get any respect from the EU as long as they continue to push hypernationalistic and imperialistic versions of its history. Most Europeans I know oscillate between dismay and disgust at the recent behavior of Russia and I assure you that some reaction will follow in due order if this behavior does not change.
On the other hand I think that countries such as Ukraine, Georgia etc should be free to join the EU and/or NATO if they so wish, without Russia interfering through barbaric methods into the decisions of these sovereign states. These are questions which should be decided by the populations of those countries, and not by Moscow.
_________________ only the paranoid survive
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
btu2012 wrote:
That's why it's so strange to have theories that everyone there is "Russian". According to Energy Unlimited and others Ukraine etc are supposedly provinces of Russia (by which we are supposed to understand Muscovy),
West Ukraine is traditionally equivalent of Wild West of Poland and East Ukraine is comparable part of Russia.
In general current independence of Ukraine is a weird aberration without precedent, and I think it is a temporary one.
Ukraine was never a kingdom in the past.
Pretorian, Raping in Russia run by Mongols was going on longer than in Ukraine, but nevertheless once Mongols were thrown out, it essentially stopped (but of course Russians were doing some raping between themselves, not a dangerous activity from perspective of purity of blood).
On the other hand raping of Ukrainians never stopped until 1948 perhaps and it was one of better entertainments of surrounding nations. Mongols were raping initially, but later:
1. Russians were raping.
2. Poles were raping.
3. Turks were raping.
4. Caucasian tribes were raping etc.
Essentially, many centuries of raping is major driving force which created Ukrainian nation.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
Wonderful theory EU, you are guaranteed to make lots of Ukrainian friends with that. Wonder why all this preoccupation with rape. Angry with your wife or something ?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
btu2012 wrote:
Wonderful theory EU, you are guaranteed to make lots of Ukrainian friends with that. Wonder why all this preoccupation with rape. Angry with your wife or something?
I am just trying to explain to you, how current Ukrainian nation was formed and from where it came and explain to you, why I am not considering Ukrainians to be descendants of tribes founding Kiev Rus any more than I might be a descendant of Cleopatra of Cartagine.
There is nothing malicious here, and I am aware that Ukrainians reading my posts above won't like them, but nevertheless it is correct description of events taking place on these lands through last 8 centuries or so as per my best knowledge and belief.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
I am just trying to explain to you, how current Ukrainian nation was formed and from where it came and explain to you, why I am not considering Ukrainians to be descendants of tribes founding Kiev Rus any more than I might be a descendant of Cleopatra of Cartagine.
There is nothing malicious here, and I am aware that Ukrainians reading my posts above won't like them, but nevertheless it is correct description of events taking place on these lands through last 8 centuries or so as per my best knowledge and belief.
OK EU, I got it. _________________ only the paranoid survive
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Georgia-Russian Conflict Looms
Code:
China isn't free so we don't know what it might do if it ever becomes so.
But that hasn't stopped the US and EU from doing business with them !!! Money first everything else last. _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
I want Russia to be held accountable for its imperialism and murderous rampage through Europe and the "near abroad". Like the Germans were held accountable for what they did in WWII.
