How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
BigTex wrote:
This thread should be renamed "Ask a Shaman", (...)
I'm no shaman but will still reply.
BigTex wrote:
Are all trees equally good, or are some trees bad?
Is a bad tree still more important than a good person?
All trees are equally good. More than importance, trees are humans' wise teachers.
BigTex wrote:
If a person wanted to escape his miserable existence as a human, is there any way he could be reincarnated as a tree?
Yes, but if such human was worthy of rebirth as a tree, his/her existance will not be miserable.
BigTex wrote:
I went to Disney World and saw the Pocahontas show, which has two talking trees. Do real trees consider this offensive? All of the things the two talking trees said were very pro-tree.
Trees find it childish more than offensive. _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
zensui wrote:
...it's actually quite clear. Like Taoist's life style that values harmony of humans with nature, and finally of everything, is a correct understanding.
I agree. But most of us in this society are so far removed in our minds from that place, that feeling of being part of nature, it is difficult to find it, to feel it, and even more difficult to live it (harmlessly/harmoniously). _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
Fishman wrote:
Everything that will ultimately lead to mass extinctions...
Damn those Ice Ages and large meteors hitting earth
Well yeah, some extinctions are inevitable. But is the great extinction humans are causing inevitable? Some would say "yes it is our nature" some would say "no it is not our nature." _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
Ludi wrote:
zensui wrote:
...it's actually quite clear. Like Taoist's life style that values harmony of humans with nature, and finally of everything, is a correct understanding.
I agree. But most of us in this society are so far removed in our minds from that place, that feeling of being part of nature, it is difficult to find it, to feel it, and even more difficult to live it (harmlessly/harmoniously).
Meditating near a tree is one of the best experiences I can remember... there are ways to feel it, but to live it 100% one has to be completely off grid, or apart enough; to the point where technology becomes harmless (how that will work I don't have an accurate idea). _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
zensui wrote:
but to live it 100% one has to be completely off grid, or apart enough; to the point where technology becomes harmless (how that will work I don't have an accurate idea).
I agree, but we can take some steps in that direction, most of us, to being less harmful. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4043 Location: Memphis
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
zensui wrote:
BigTex wrote:
This thread should be renamed "Ask a Shaman", (...)
I'm no shaman but will still reply.
BigTex wrote:
Are all trees equally good, or are some trees bad?
Is a bad tree still more important than a good person?
All trees are equally good. More than importance, trees are humans' wise teachers.
BigTex wrote:
If a person wanted to escape his miserable existence as a human, is there any way he could be reincarnated as a tree?
Yes, but if such human was worthy of rebirth as a tree, his/her existance will not be miserable.
BigTex wrote:
I went to Disney World and saw the Pocahontas show, which has two talking trees. Do real trees consider this offensive? All of the things the two talking trees said were very pro-tree.
Trees find it childish more than offensive.
What about killing a tree? Is that a bad thing to do? What if you help the poor with the wood you get from the tree?
What about when a volcano erupts and basically does a tree genocide (herbicide?)--is that bad? Is the volcano a force of evil?
What about the other plants that have to die for the tree to live, or even the other trees that have to die for a large tree to live (sort of like in the Rush song "The Trees")?
Let's say you are an environmentalist caveman, and your policy is only to use dead wood for firewood, but one day all of the dead wood is gone and you need to chop down a live tree to heat the cave and cook the mammoth cuts. Is it okay to chop down a tree then, or should you starve and freeze to death?
If you are walking along and you see a bully tree beating up a helpless person, are you justified in jumping in and defending the helpless person?
If a tree fell on your house, would you be justified in going into the forest and dropping a house on a tree? _________________
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1106 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
Ludi wrote:
Are there actually any Shamans posting in this thread?
Of course there aren't, but I'll do what I can within my infantile knowledge of the subject, have studied it a little (grin).
So what is it you want to know?
Peak Oil, as far as I see, is a symptom, not a cause. I'm sure that any shaman worth their salt would tell you that that the solutions to this problem lie entirely within the compass of the human intellect, and in the mean-time, lay-off my trees.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1106 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
Jack wrote:
MrBean wrote:
Given that, what kind of help would you like to ask from shamans, if you had chance?
How can I get nature to spawn a virus that rapidly deletes the entire population of India, China, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil, Haiti, Venezuela, Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Columbia, El Salvador, Nigeria, Chad, Egypt, Niger, Sudan, the Congo, Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia, Yemen, and Nicaragua but has no effect on other populations?
You mean everyone black.
Jack, I have had a lot of respect for your posts before & that's why I hope you were drunk when you wrote that. Please tell me you were.
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1106 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
Ludi wrote:
I have no questions for a shaman at this time.
I think any true shaman right now would have already toggled their yurt shut and have stocked up on yack butter & be smiling toothlessly at their grandchildren.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a shamanistic perspective
JPL wrote:
You mean everyone black.
Jack, I have had a lot of respect for your posts before & that's why I hope you were drunk when you wrote that. Please tell me you were.
JP
Not true. The Chinese - all 1.3 billion of them - are not black. Ask them, they'll tell you.
Now how often have I suggested that the answer to excess consumption is a reduction of the population in the third world? Surely, that has been the theme of hundreds of my posts.
However, if you have an algorithm to select those you would prefer to contribute to the dieoff, I'll be glad to take a look.
Keep in mind - dieoff could easily mean a global population reduction of 4.5 billion people. And the closer those people are to you (in location or characteristics), the greater the probability that you will get to participate in the dieoff. So if you were to choose an equal distribution, then you would face about a 70% chance of getting to be part of the aforementioned dieoff.
Choose well.
I think I'll start a thread on the subject. Please drop by and share your thoughts.
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