How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
I sleep better knowing that the door is locked, and that if anyone did manage to get in to our house with evil intent they would be leaving in a box.
I use guns for hunting and I hope I never need to use them for home protection. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4043 Location: Memphis
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
GeoJAP wrote:
Sounds good; fair enough. I just wanted to establish with somewhat of a definitive nature the causality for situations like this. The oppressed should never be blamed for the aggressor's actions because "they weren't strategic enough".
But I agree, in a pragmatic sense, that 95% of all situations can be avoided with sound preparation and forethought.
Knock on wood, but I have never, ever had any situation (such as we are discussing now) happen to me at home or in my travels around four continents. I recognized what places I could stick my nose into and when I needed to stay out of sight. It's not that hard if you think before hand.
Good police officers will say the same thing as they tell you with pride they have never drawn their weapon.
Though there are obviously lots of good cops who have drawn their weapon who will say with pride they have never fired it.
The point to me is just the less violence the better in most cases. _________________
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4059 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
BigTex wrote:
GeoJAP wrote:
Sounds good; fair enough. I just wanted to establish with somewhat of a definitive nature the causality for situations like this. The oppressed should never be blamed for the aggressor's actions because "they weren't strategic enough".
But I agree, in a pragmatic sense, that 95% of all situations can be avoided with sound preparation and forethought.
Knock on wood, but I have never, ever had any situation (such as we are discussing now) happen to me at home or in my travels around four continents. I recognized what places I could stick my nose into and when I needed to stay out of sight. It's not that hard if you think before hand.
Good police officers will say the same thing as they tell you with pride they have never drawn their weapon.
Though there are obviously lots of good cops who have drawn their weapon who will say with pride they have never fired it.
The point to me is just the less violence the better in most cases.
Absolutely!! The least force possible. Always best to de-escalate a threat using non-lethal means. But be prepared for anything.
It's kinda like nukes. The objective is to never use them. Only one country has violated this basic and fundamental understanding so far. All the others have used restraint... just like we all must with personal weapons. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Guns?
I knew a man once who killed another man for a pack of cigarettes. He had no remorse what so ever. To him, your platitudes would be a joke. I hope you never meet him.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4043 Location: Memphis
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
Cloud9 wrote:
I knew a man once who killed another man for a pack of cigarettes. He had no remorse what so ever. To him, your platitudes would be a joke. I hope you never meet him.
But if you follow the "platitudes" above, you would be prepared to meet him if you did.
That's the point. You are prepared to use any level of violence that is necessary at any time.
Because you are prepared to do that at all times, you find that you have much less need to use violence because you are thinking more strategically.
Contrast this approach to the punk who roams around looking for trouble and is ready for it when he finds it, as your cigarette pack killer may be. Such a person is going to find a bigger badass than him soon enough and his days will be at an end.
Anecdotal tales of what some lunatic did one time doesn't mean that it makes sense to seek viollent solutions to problems when non-violent options are available.
The objective is for YOU to survive, not for you to see how many other people you can kill. _________________
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
BigTex wrote:
Contrast this approach to the punk who roams around looking for trouble and is ready for it when he finds it, as your cigarette pack killer may be. Such a person is going to find a bigger badass than him soon enough and his days will be at an end.
I think a lot of gang-banger types will end exactly like that when encountering shortages, etc. I'm really appalled at what I've observed regarding peoples inability to cope with relatively minor inconveniences. If thats the way they behave in a traffic jam... because the concert beer line was too slow etc....
-G _________________ All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4043 Location: Memphis
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
gnm wrote:
BigTex wrote:
Contrast this approach to the punk who roams around looking for trouble and is ready for it when he finds it, as your cigarette pack killer may be. Such a person is going to find a bigger badass than him soon enough and his days will be at an end.
I think a lot of gang-banger types will end exactly like that when encountering shortages, etc. I'm really appalled at what I've observed regarding peoples inability to cope with relatively minor inconveniences. If thats the way they behave in a traffic jam... because the concert beer line was too slow etc....
-G
Sort of like the Mike Tyson's of the world.
Awesome threats in any given encounter, but ultimately not a model for anything other than how not to do it. _________________
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
gnm wrote:
BigTex wrote:
Contrast this approach to the punk who roams around looking for trouble and is ready for it when he finds it, as your cigarette pack killer may be. Such a person is going to find a bigger badass than him soon enough and his days will be at an end.
I think a lot of gang-banger types will end exactly like that when encountering shortages, etc. I'm really appalled at what I've observed regarding peoples inability to cope with relatively minor inconveniences. If thats the way they behave in a traffic jam... because the concert beer line was too slow etc....
-G
fist-fights in the bread isle pre-Katrina and Rita
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4043 Location: Memphis
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
JJ wrote:
gnm wrote:
BigTex wrote:
Contrast this approach to the punk who roams around looking for trouble and is ready for it when he finds it, as your cigarette pack killer may be. Such a person is going to find a bigger badass than him soon enough and his days will be at an end.
I think a lot of gang-banger types will end exactly like that when encountering shortages, etc. I'm really appalled at what I've observed regarding peoples inability to cope with relatively minor inconveniences. If thats the way they behave in a traffic jam... because the concert beer line was too slow etc....
-G
fist-fights in the bread isle pre-Katrina and Rita
Anyone in the bread aisle pre-Katrina was using a bad strategy.
That's a good illustration of my point. _________________
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
I'm pushing 60. I'm too old to run and to broken up to fight. Sorry, I am not a martial artist with lots of options. I will back away if I can. I will talk my way out if I can. I'f I can't. If he won't let me then I'll simply shoot the unreasonable bastard and call the cops.
Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
I had a party a couple of years ago, where someone asked the question, "Could you shoot someone?". I said yes, under certain circumstances I could, I might even enjoy it. The woman was shocked, just appalled.
Serial murderers past and present, Pol Pot, other thugs? I'd pay good money to put one right between their eyes. This is how I feel, anyway. Whether I could ever do it, is another question.
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