How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
The government raids on polygamists in the southwest us are:
Appropriate-those kids were abused
45%
[ 30 ]
Religious Bigotry
18%
[ 12 ]
A Little from column a, a little from column b
36%
[ 24 ]
Total Votes : 66
Author
Message
AWPrime Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jul 07, 2005 Posts: 678 Location: Europe
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
The sad thing is that the stereotype (pedo FLDS) was actually true.
Now the question remains if the guilty pedos will be separated from the normal prison population or not. _________________ Fighting technobabble and Woo Woos.
Caught a snippet in a local paper today mentioning this, and also mentioning that a second pregnant 'girl' they pegged as a minor also isn't. Can't seem to find it on the paper's website tho', so sorry for no link.
Funny how quiet the press have gotten over this all of a sudden, now that it's becoming increasingly apparent that it's been a witch hunt the whole time... _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
I wonder how many civil lawsuits the FLDS people will file against Texas for spreading false statements, forcible seizure, kidnapping, denial of civil rights, etc.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4053 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
Cloud9 wrote:
It is good that some judges still know how to read the Constitution.
I agree.
Taking newborn babies from their moms. It's unreal what the state of Texas has come to. The more we read about this case the more I suspect Planteagent is right. It looks like the FLDS may be on track to winning some HUGE awards from Texas. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
These women are not legally married because it's against the law. Many reports have stated they collect welfare. Some reports on tv have said some of the men have 100 kids. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but there are TOO MANY PEOPLE in the world. In my opinion, it is absolutely disgusting that one man sires 100 kids and then we pay for their upkeep. These women are raised to believe that this is the right way to live - and I find it thoroughy sexist and abusive. Just out of curiosity, how many 'religions' preach multiple husbands for one wife? Frankly, this is one messed up bunch of people. I do not agree with their taking the small children from their mothers, but I do feel that these people need serious psychiatric rehab from this cult.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3262 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
3aidlillahi wrote:
The scarier part, from what I've heard, is that they didn't even have that good enough evidence - it was mostly a phone call from the 16-yo girl making accusations. They were able to get a warrant and then used that very broadly. It seems wrong to be able to have such broad authority as to arrest hundreds of people on the accusations of an anonymous person.
At least they bothered to get a warrant (/sarcasm)
I don't think anyone has been arrested-yet.
I won't get into the religious aspect of this situation-except to say that I have a real problem with people using the guise of religion to further their sexual fantasies.
Consenting adults, IMHO, can do as they please, IOW, I have no interest in becoming a member of the SexPolice.
The biggest problem, as I see it, is raising the female children just to be sexual captives of the "elders." Making baby after baby-disgusting! Notice how the male children are jettisoned asap so that there is no competition.
And, the mind games! Some of the kids don't seem to know how old they are, who their actual parents are, etc. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
I suppose the Pentacostals are just fine tho', since at least they don't teach their girls to be 'sex objects' (apart from that whole 'subservient to your husband' thing of course)...
_________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5102 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
Texas Supreme Court rules for FLDS families ---appellate court order that they should be reunited is sustained.
_________________
"We call upon the state of Texas to end this nightmare and allow these families to come together on the ranch and live their lives," said Rod Parker, a Salt Lake City attorney who is serving as a spokesman for the families. His clients, he said, "are thrilled with this decision" and hope the ruling sets a precedent that "will protect the familial rights of all families in Texas."
As the case unfolded over the past eight weeks, criticism of the state's actions grew. Conservative Christians cast the case as an alarming intrusion on religious liberty. The American Civil Liberties Union suggested that the state may have been acting out of religious prejudice by punishing families for their belief systems. And family advocates objected to the mass removal of so many children, including nursing infants and toddlers.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
Here is my take.
The wholesale treatment of every individual reeks of civil rights violations. If we allow that, then next someone will think that the baptist elementary school is mistreating kids and seize them.
The premise was based on a false phone call. Who knows who did that. Could have been the law enforcement wanting to strong arm these people.
I think the LDS ppl are CRAZY but still have rights until proven there is abuse. I think well I guess I know there is abuse there its obvious, but you still need to prove that to seize a child. So if they can do that with search warrants then fine. If not, then they need to go to school and learn how to do so. Typical jackboot law enforcement and child services. Have you ever known a competent social worker? They make mistakes like this all the time. DUH..
Whatever religion you are, there is a chance they will come knocking at your door next if you open the door a crack. Some of the charasmatic circles have a cultish side to them also. So if someone makes a false call and accusation, then here comes the gestapo.
If you study the debacle at the David Koresch compound or with Randy Weaver you can see exactly how they operate. Koresch jogged every morning outside the compound and was in town every day on main street. Why didnt they capture him then? And Randy Weaver had a shotgun with a barrel one inch too short and they killed his wife and child for that. Get a life. The way the news handled it you woulda thot he had a machine gun nest.
Finally, if you look at the murder rate in the USA its about 60 people a day. Looks like we have more to worry bout than people in bagdad. They dont have that many there in a week. Do you ever hear about that. With current thot, if we have uncontrolled crime and murders, we need to vacate the area. So looks to me like we need to VACATE WASHINGTON D.C. hhahahahahah
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4053 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Polygamy raids
joelcolorado wrote:
If you study the debacle at the David Koresch compound
.... just one minor point. Not to nit pick, but that term was created by the government and their faithful media followers to demonize Koresch. What they had was a church. A church with their residences on the same land.
A church some of us may or may not approve, but religious freedom is defined not by whom you kill, but by whom you tolerate. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
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