My pretty new computer dictionary defines Liberal like so:
• open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
• favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms.
• (in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform.
I'm thinking that a little open mindedness might be in order in the next years unless we just put the pedal to the metal and go out with a hoot.
(yea, I know, I've upped the percentage of post containing labels in this thread ) _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2570 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
BigTex...I agree totally with "use violence with care". I'm not a violent person at all. but I can be if attacked.
Quote: but if history is any judge, you will now be a target of the intruder's tribe and you may have to use violence against some or all of them.
Nope, not a chance...I wont kill him, I'll just shoot his knees & elbows...Give him a few backbreakers that jesse the body would be proud of...and return him to his clan as nothing more than a stump with a bad back (but still alive).
They'll be so mortified, they would never attempt such a stupid thing again
OK, I know that's just silly talk...But what would you suggest? Somebody doesn't kick in your front door just to say hello. If they're bold enough to do that, they're bold enough to harm you & yours...There's really no choice at that point but to take offensive action. _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
Legless_Marine wrote:
aflurry wrote:
hey legless, interested in that Heinlein idea. Where is it from?
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess "Tunnel in the sky", although it's likely a recurring theme across many of his books.
A complementary recurring theme is Heinlein's belief that "An armed society is a police society".
Good call... Tunnel in the Sky it is! The protagonist had two knives, and no guns. The bully with the Thunderbolt was dead within minutes of landing on the new world. All guns were collected once they got the village set up.
Yeah, I remember that story now. Guns are bad except in the hands of a few good women. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Graceland
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
RonMN wrote:
BigTex...I agree totally with "use violence with care". I'm not a violent person at all. but I can be if attacked.
Quote: but if history is any judge, you will now be a target of the intruder's tribe and you may have to use violence against some or all of them.
Nope, not a chance...I wont kill him, I'll just shoot his knees & elbows...Give him a few backbreakers that jesse the body would be proud of...and return him to his clan as nothing more than a stump with a bad back (but still alive).
They'll be so mortified, they would never attempt such a stupid thing again
OK, I know that's just silly talk...But what would you suggest? Somebody doesn't kick in your front door just to say hello. If they're bold enough to do that, they're bold enough to harm you & yours...There's really no choice at that point but to take offensive action.
The whole scenario is one you think out when you are deciding what kind of door to buy, where to live, what stuff to keep around, what kind of car to drive, what kind of jewelry to wear, etc.
I figured out a while back that I don't want to spend much energy trying to defend property, so I try not to accumulate assets that I might have to defend with violence one day. I also thought about this when I decided where to live, what to drive, etc.
There is certainly a risk that I may meet Mr. badguy in my living room one night, and it is my hope that me and Mr. .357 will put a quick end to the matter right there in the living room. No wounding, just one shot to the upper torso and that should be it (although, as I noted before, there certainly may be a new set of problems to deal with).
But if it comes to that, I will be satisfied that the whole matter couldn't have been avoided by me wearing a little less flashy watch, or driving a less flashy car, etc. So many of these things start off as a stupid attempt to steal something that you probably would have just given them if they had asked for it.
So by all means, use violence if necessary, but think about ways of preventing the confrontation in the first place as much as you possibly can. That is effort well spent.
And, really, that's probably the exact advice I will give to my kids when they get old enough to be concerned about these things. _________________
Joined: Mar 18, 2005 Posts: 2570 Location: Minnesota
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
BigTex Wrote: But if it comes to that, I will be satisfied that the whole matter couldn't have been avoided by me wearing a little less flashy watch, or driving a less flashy car, etc. So many of these things start off as a stupid attempt to steal something that you probably would have just given them if they had asked for it.
So by all means, use violence if necessary, but think about ways of preventing the confrontation in the first place as much as you possibly can. That is effort well spent.
On this...we're in 100% agreement! _________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
One thing I might add to this discussion here, something that changed my life really, is concealed carry in public. Pops alluded to this earlier.
Last year I got my CHL in Texas. I was actually hesitant and delayed getting the license for years. The responsibility of carrying a pistol with me at all times in public weighed heavily on my mind. The idea that something could possibly go wrong, and the irreversible nature of those events, gave me much pause.
It was actually the tragic events at Virginia Tech that provided the momentum for me to make up my mind once and for all. I would never be a victim. I stepped over the line with determination and submitted the application, took the class, and got my license.
The class was very illuminating and I was surprised about the topics covered. I thought we would be grilled and hammered mercilessly with laws, legalities and safe firearms operation. That was actually only about 25% of the classroom instruction. The other 75% was purely practical discussion about "what if". What if the moment arises where you actually think you may need to use your CHL. We covered dozens of potential scenarios, and what the practical, real-world outcome would be AFTER you used deadly force, and whether you still thought it would be worth it after considering all the after effects.
After having my CHL for about a year now, I can honestly tell you that my behavior and attitude in public has changed in ways I never imagined beforehand. It may not be so obvious externally upon casual observation, but my mental disposition and the way my thought processes function have changed noticeably.
First, I find that I am always monitoring my own behavior. I find myself always coaching and training myself mentally to maintain a clear-headed state and to be thinking rationally. It just kind of happens, and I'm actually kind of surprised to see myself doing it. I find myself monitoring my emotions and keeping them close to center, staying rational almost to a fault. I rarely if ever get upset at anything (not that I did before a whole lot). I do make a concerted effort to always stay within the law. I speed less in my car now, things like that. I try and be non-confrontational in public in stressful situations. I automatically separate and disengage myself from road-rage cases on the highway.
Second, I find that I am not as concerned about my environment as I used to be sometimes. I still watch my surroundings like any aware person, but I have more of a zen-like sense of calmness in those variable surroundings that did not exist before. I do not put myself in harm's way now just because I have a CHL, of course. But let's say I'm driving through Houston or Dallas and need to stop for gas in an unfamiliar area. I feel more calm and sure about my environs than I might have otherwise. Just to be clear, I was never in the habit of feeling alarmed by my surroundings before I got my CHL. I have backpacked through 30 countries on 4 continents, through the jungles of Central America and slept in the streets of large European cities without any incident ever. I've been in some very seedy situations before. I'm a big guy though at 6'1", which may help explain why I've never had any trouble. Anyway, once you become comfortable carrying your CCW and stop thinking about it being on your hip all the time, it is a very calming feeling, probably because you feel like you have a tool to help you get through more situations with which you may be faced.
Third, my dyed-in-the-wool Democrat girlfriend actually likes that I carry it with me when we are out together. That surprised me quite a bit, but pleasantly. She likes the security.
If your state allows CCW/CHL, I can recommend it from personal experience. It's not for everyone of course, the idea of carrying a weapon just doesn't mesh well with some folks. I just thought I would share the noticeable change I found in myself after I had my license for a year.
Last edited by GeoJAP on Fri May 02, 2008 6:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6375 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
Thanks Geo.
The two sides to the coin are just as you describe I'm guessing, either stick out ones chest if that's all they have or take a step around slight trouble if they have something more. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
Pops wrote:
Thanks Geo.
The two sides to the coin are just as you describe I'm guessing, either stick out ones chest if that's all they have or take a step around slight trouble if they have something more.
Yep. I do think there is something to that saying, "An armed society is a polite society."
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Guns?
Popster wrote:
My pretty new computer dictionary defines Liberal like so:
• open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
• favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms.
• (in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform.
I'm thinking that a little open mindedness might be in order in the next years unless we just put the pedal to the metal and go out with a hoot.
I think you've accidentally copied and pasted the definition of "libertarian", which, clearly, is close to liberal in the dictionary (and only in the dictionary).
The reason that the definition of "liberal" is so rosy and off the point is because, of course, liberals write dictionaries.
Liberal, as that term is commonly used, means to most, in my estimation, a person who wants to spend my money to cure their problems or my neighbors problems.
For example:
Liberals almost universally agree that a "progressive" tax scam is better than a flat tax or a chit tax. You'll notice that the definition from the dictionary doesn't mention this.
On the other hand, you'll note that my definition completely nails that one very enduring quality of liberals.
In fact, if you're a liberal who owns a gun and who believes that there is too much government and taxation, then you are more a libertarian than a liberal.
As used today . . .
Conservative - somebody who is socially hidebound and fiscally in favor of fewer taxes and lower spending.
Liberal - somebody who is socially loose and fiscally in favor of greater taxes and higher spending.
Libertarian - somebody who is socially loose and fiscally in favor of fewer taxes and lower spending.
I'd guess that a significant portion of this board mislabels themselves as "liberals" when they are more accurately described as "libertarians."
But I'll make my labelling system easy.
If you don't think that Americans pay enough in taxes, you're both a liberal and an idiot.
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