Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
MonteQuest wrote:
Myself, I don't think we can ever create a sun.
Which is not a goal of any sane person currently. Getting H-H Fusion is
way too difficult.
Quote:
And if we do, it won't be cheap, and it won't be available on the scale and in the manner we would need it...for decades.
Certainly. I know some plasma physicist which doubt it will ever be affordable.
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And it would be like giving a six year old a Corvette with an unlimited credit card and turning him loose on the roadways.
We have not learned enough to be responsible for that much power.
That's something not entirely in our control; however, I daresay that compared to oil wars, coal miner's abuse, global warming and nuclear waste management, russian style, fusion does not seem to have many obvious negative side--effects. Of course, man's ingenuity when it comes to creating such is unebatable..
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 219 Location: No. Calif.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
I just attended a little talk about Lawrence Livermore's laboratory program for laser-induced-fusion. They are building this two soccer-field sized facility lined with a gazzilion lasers, well, maybe just 96 of them, that they fire simultaneously into holes in a spherical confinement chamber aimed at gold pellets filled with helium, I think, which are suppose to achieve the fusion point when they are simultaneous hit from all sides with the laser beams. Seems like kind of a very brute force approach.
I'll give a linky to Lawrence Livermore website information. This seems about as wise an investment as the space station. However, we all know that it is really about military spinoff technology so that we can self-destruct the human race a little bit ahead of when nature will do it for us. However, they talk it up as saving us from global warming (as if we won't have other problems like maintaining industrial infrastructure and feeding ourselves).
It was all very exciting to hear about -- too bad I didn't believe any of it ''
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2573 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
China joins search of fusion energy
Quote:
The ITER project is currently the world's most ambitious project to date; it aims to build a fusion device the likes of which has never been seen before. The scale of the project precludes its undertaking by one country alone. Therefore, the European Union along with six other countries have combined their efforts to demonstrate the scientific and technical feasibility of fusion power. And now China is further cementing its role as a partner in the project by contributing around 10 billion yuan (EUR 63.7 million) to the vision.
In a recent move China has decided to contribute USD1.4 billion to ITER, an amount which represents about 10 percent of the project's cost. About half of China's contribution will be spent during the 10-year construction phase of the multination undertaking. According to Luo Delong, deputy director of the ITER China Office, 'The goal of the project is to find a shortcut to solve our energy shortage.' Furthermore, he said that Chinese researchers will be in charge of building components such as heating, diagnostic and remote maintenance equipment, as well as transporting it to Cadarache in the south of France, where the ITER reactor will be built.
europa _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
Graeme wrote:
China joins search of fusion energy
Quote:
The ITER project is currently the world's most ambitious project to date; it aims to build a fusion device the likes of which has never been seen before. The scale of the project precludes its undertaking by one country alone. Therefore, the European Union along with six other countries have combined their efforts to demonstrate the scientific and technical feasibility of fusion power. And now China is further cementing its role as a partner in the project by contributing around 10 billion yuan (EUR 63.7 million) to the vision.
In a recent move China has decided to contribute USD1.4 billion to ITER, an amount which represents about 10 percent of the project's cost. About half of China's contribution will be spent during the 10-year construction phase of the multination undertaking. According to Luo Delong, deputy director of the ITER China Office, 'The goal of the project is to find a shortcut to solve our energy shortage.' Furthermore, he said that Chinese researchers will be in charge of building components such as heating, diagnostic and remote maintenance equipment, as well as transporting it to Cadarache in the south of France, where the ITER reactor will be built.
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2573 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
Space Magnetism May Hold Secret to Fusion Power
Quote:
New discoveries about magnetic field lines and the first-ever direct observation of their reconnection in space are offering hope that scientists will learn how to unlock fusion power as an energy source in the future.
"The reconnection processes in the [Earth's] magnetosphere and in fusion devices are the same animal," said James Drake, a University of Maryland physicist.
Space contains magnetic fields that direct the flow of plasma, an energetic fourth state of matter consisting of positive ions and electrons. The plasma particles normally follow the paths of the magnetic field lines like streams of cars following highways.
Magnetic reconnection can release that stored energy when two magnetic field lines bend towards each other and fuse to create new field lines. The effect is not unlike an earthquake forcibly realigning parallel highways into perpendicular routes and channeling cars along the newly created paths. Although some released plasma energy travels in a straight line — called a super-Alfvenic electron jet — other plasma particles fan out as though escaping the opening of a trumpet.
The effect not only fascinates astrophysicists but also frustrates efforts on Earth to create sustained energy sources through fusion. Experimental fusion reactors force atomic particles to fuse together and release energy as plasma. The plasma is contained within a "magnetic bottle," or a cage of magnetic field lines, so that the high plasma temperatures can maintain the fusion reaction.
yahoo _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2573 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
Nuclear fusion is coming, says noted VC
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Nuclear fusion will move from the lab to reality in a few years, a noted venture capitalist says.
"Within five years, large companies will start to think about building fusion reactors," Wal van Lierop, CEO of Chrysalix Energy Venture Capital, said in an interview at the Clean Tech Investor Summit taking place here this week. In three to four years, scientists will demonstrate results that show that fusion has a 60 percent chance of success, he said.
Chrysalix's optimism is pinned on an angel investment the company made in General Fusion, a Canadian company that says it has found a way to hurdle many of the technical problems surrounding fusion. The company's ultimate plan is to build small fusion reactors that can produce around 100 megawatts of power. The plants would cost around $50 million. That could allow the company to generate electricity at about 4 cents per kilowatt hour, making it competitive with conventional electricity.
CNET _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
I'd like Montequest to expand upon the "fusion is the last thing we need" theme, just so I know his complete premise.
If solving an energy squeeze caused by peak oil is the problem, it leads the discussion to commiting to making fusion happen.
If Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael" is used as a model, and scarcity is what brings man back into balance with nature, then Peak Oil is a boon to mankind (after getting through the catastrophic "readjustment.")
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
I think that under current conditions, it will take at least 30 years for the first plant to be fully working. But with the consequences of peak oil imminent, this "last savior" of energy will be cutting it close with its appearance (just like a suspenseful action movie, huh? Funny how it works in real life). It will be awful to see its funding get seriously cut in lieu of wars for the last bits of fossil fuels. The world needs more scientists and less politicians.
We need to put more credit into fusion energy. Its fuel is extracted from a renewable resource. As far as solving our problems of scarcity go, fusion power cannot replace oil-based products. So regardless of what happens with these projects, we would still have to cut down on plastics and oils.
If we had sufficient power we could easily synthesize all the gasoline we would need. Supposing we had the water we needed.
We could get that via distillation.
So fusion power, or sufficiently advanced/cheap fission power could easily take care of our fuel problem. The fuel cost of course would probably be much more expensive, but there would be a cap, as talked about in the above link.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3134 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Nuclear Fusion
If Fusion generates as much EROEI as people say it will, then it will totally change the rules of the game. If we were to apply that energy wisely we could really roll back a lot of the damage we've done to the biosphere and give us a second shot at sustainability, as well as maybe getting us off this rock, terraforming mars and making moonbases. It just sounds too good to be true.
If Fusion generates as much EROEI as people say it will, then it will totally change the rules of the game. If we were to apply that energy wisely we could really roll back a lot of the damage we've done to the biosphere and give us a second shot at sustainability, as well as maybe getting us off this rock, terraforming mars and making moonbases. It just sounds too good to be true.
You can provide high energy return with fission also.
If we really needed fusion (we don't, 120 trillion tons of uranium and thorium) we could allways revive the PACER project and build giant caverns that we drop H-Bombs in to drive turbines.
The PACER project, carried out at Los Alamos National Laboratory in the mid-1970s, explored the possibility of a fusion power system that would involve exploding small hydrogen bombs (fusion bombs)—or, as stated in a later proposal, fission bombs—inside an underground cavity.
And I thought Operation Ploughshare was nuts! _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
I'm just gonna find a cash machine.
The PACER project, carried out at Los Alamos National Laboratory in the mid-1970s, explored the possibility of a fusion power system that would involve exploding small hydrogen bombs (fusion bombs)—or, as stated in a later proposal, fission bombs—inside an underground cavity.
And I thought Operation Ploughshare was nuts!
Reminds me of the tactical field deployed nukes they played around with for awhile before they figured out that it was ABSOLUTELY INSANE.
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