I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1723 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Fighting rages in Sadr City
Cid Yama: Hidden behind all the media propaganda coinciding with the testimony of General Petraeus before Congress, is the fact that US forces are currently involved in an operation to crush the Mahdi Army of Moqtada al-Sadr. Simultaneously, the media touts stories of Sadr disbanding "if clerics say so"(Iraqi Shi'ite clerics have demanded a war of liberation from US occupation, so the chances of that are nil) and of Sadr "threatening to" lift the cease-fire. Apparently they haven't noticed the cease-fire ended when US forces pushed into Sadr City.
The million-strong demonstration was called off today, a day before it was supposed to happen. That means all of Sadr's supporters who traveled from across Iraq to attend are now 'in the area' and free to take up arms. Looks like his reserves have arrived.
Fierce fighting raged on Tuesday as US and Iraqi forces battled heavily armed Shi'ite militiamen in their Baghdad bastion of Sadr City for a third straight day, an AFP correspondent and witnesses said.
Witnesses said fierce clashes erupted soon after midnight as American tanks attempted to push into Sadr City.
They were met by fighters of the Mahdi Army militia of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr armed with rockets, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades, witnesses said.
"We did not sleep all night because of the heavy fire," said Mustafa Mohammed, a resident of the sprawling eastern Baghdad district of some two million people.
An AFP correspondent said fighting broke out around midnight as Mahdi Army fighters deployed along minor roads after planting bombs on the main routes to halt the advance of the American and Iraqi forces.
Sadr vows to fight "to achieve our goals, beliefs, religion, principles and patriotism"
Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr threatened today to lift a seven-month freeze on his Mahdi Army militia if the Iraqi government does not halt attacks on his followers or set a timetable for a U.S. withdrawal.
"I call on the Iraqi government, if it exists, to work for the protection of the Iraqi people, stop the bloodshed and the abuse of its honor," said al-Sadr.
"If the public interest dictates the lifting of the freeze to achieve our goals, beliefs, religion, principles and patriotism we shall do that."
Using typical rhetoric to refer to U.S. forces, al-Sadr said the government should "protect the Iraqi people from the booby traps and American militias" and "demand the withdrawal of the occupier."
Iraqi Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr announced in a statement on Tuesday he was indefinitely postponing mass anti-U.S. demonstrations planned for the following day because of fear his supporters would be attacked.
The "million-strong march" was scheduled to coincide with the fifth anniversary of the fall of Baghdad and had raised the prospect of mass action or unrest coinciding with testimony in Congress by the top U.S. officials in Iraq.
link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
By staying in Iraq so long and our results for rehabilitating the country so poor, we've set the perfect stage for Sadr and the other Shiites to cast themselves as downtrodden freedom fighters who must liberate the country from an occupier. They'll eventually win when our stomach for battle is lost. ...but you all know that.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4398 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
IanC wrote:
By staying in Iraq so long and our results for rehabilitating the country so poor, we've set the perfect stage for Sadr and the other Shiites to cast themselves as downtrodden freedom fighters who must liberate the country from an occupier. They'll eventually win when our stomach for battle is lost. ...but you all know that.
-Ian
Try to look beyond the victory celebrations when the US leaves. There is no way Sadr will control all of Baghdad with such a high Sunni population. The split up of the country into 3 ethnic zones will only take place after several more years of ethnic cleansing. If that's really what they want then I don't see why it's necessary to blame the US for not being able to pull a miracle.
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
mos6507 wrote:
Try to look beyond the victory celebrations when the US leaves. There is no way Sadr will control all of Baghdad with such a high Sunni population. The split up of the country into 3 ethnic zones will only take place after several more years of ethnic cleansing. If that's really what they want then I don't see why it's necessary to blame the US for not being able to pull a miracle.
Perhaps not, but one thing that United States can be blamed for is possessing the ignominious stupidity to blithely invade Iraq in the first place.
Besides, neither you nor I know for certain how the situation in Iraq will ultimately resolve itself. Who knows, maybe al-Sadr could be the next Salladin.
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 810 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
Quote:
Perhaps not, but one thing that United States can be blamed for is possessing the ignominious stupidity to blithely invade Iraq in the first place.
Not to mention the farking up of Iraq in the months following the invasion and conquering of Iraq.
Quote:
Who knows, maybe al-Sadr could be the next Salladin.
Oddly enough, "Salladin" was a Sunni Kurd.
Also, he actually was a military figure and was less of a religious figure (although Al-Sadr isn't well known for being a religious figure, but more of a political-ish figure).
So did Sadr actually have a million persons coming to Baghdad to protest? Or was that just the goal for the protest? _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
mos6507 wrote:
Try to look beyond the victory celebrations when the US leaves. There is no way Sadr will control all of Baghdad with such a high Sunni population. The split up of the country into 3 ethnic zones will only take place after several more years of ethnic cleansing. If that's really what they want then I don't see why it's necessary to blame the US for not being able to pull a miracle.
FYI, Sadrist movement is the nationalist bunch, opposed to partitioning. Remaining Maliki allies are the separationists (semi-independent kurdistan and semi-independent shiastan; the old neocon plan which raises the plan how much of the new religious divide is creation of Negroponte black ops) Also to be noted is the even more important class division between puppet shias of Maliki and allies (small elite of haves) and anti-occupation shias of sadrists (masses of have-nots).
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
3aidlillahi wrote:
Not to mention the farking up of Iraq in the months following the invasion and conquering of Iraq.
Not to mention farking up Iraq years and decades before latest act of open colonialism.
Quote:
Oddly enough, "Salladin" was a Sunni Kurd.
Also, he actually was a military figure and was less of a religious figure (although Al-Sadr isn't well known for being a religious figure, but more of a political-ish figure).
Saladdin was the guy who beat the crusaders and that's why he is remembered. Putting emphasis on that he happened to be of sunni kurd origin tells only about the success of the old policy of divide and rule. In the minds of the ruled.
Quote:
So did Sadr actually have a million persons coming to Baghdad to protest? Or was that just the goal for the protest?
He canceled the march, apparently in fear of too many martyrs murdered by Maliki and US if the demonstration had took place. "Firebrand" indeed.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4398 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
Magus wrote:
Perhaps not, but one thing that United States can be blamed for is possessing the ignominious stupidity to blithely invade Iraq in the first place.
The collective thrust of the international community towards Iraq in the last 5 years has been to shrug its shoulders and say "you broke it, you bought it" and walk away. I don't think that helps matters either.
Magus wrote:
Besides, neither you nor I know for certain how the situation in Iraq will ultimately resolve itself. Who knows, maybe al-Sadr could be the next Salladin.
Saladin was probably the most humane ruler of his day and even the crusaders respected him as a guy who conducted a fair fight. He would be ashamed to see how low the rules of conduct in warfare have gone in the muslim world.
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
Mos
If I am not mistaken, its the Muslim lands that are usurped, bombed, invaded, and robbed of its natural resources with the help of world's most advanced weapons. And yet you think its their fault? Its their fault to not fight with drones or f-16s? They dont have them.
Since you seem to be an expert on rating the rules of conduct on the battlefield, where would you place the following?
http://rense.com/general74/afgg.htm
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
mos6507 wrote:
Saladin was probably the most humane ruler of his day and even the crusaders respected him as a guy who conducted a fair fight. He would be ashamed to see how low the rules of conduct in warfare have gone in the muslim world.
Interestingly, from all I've heard, mr. there is no reliable evidence that Al-Sadr has committed any dishonorable acts in the eyes of the Moslem world or most of the rest of the world for that matter, but has allways done what a good Moslem is supposed to do.
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
mos6507 wrote:
The collective thrust of the international community towards Iraq in the last 5 years has been to shrug its shoulders and say "you broke it, you bought it" and walk away. I don't think that helps matters either.
By "international community" I must assume you mean the political elites of "Pax Americana" and the whores of "journalists" that spread what lies their aforementioned pimps feed them?
PS: No insult by comparison to the professionals in the sex trade intended by the metaphorical use of the word "whore".
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1723 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
"The Americans and the government want to eliminate the Sadr movement, which is the only patriotic movement opposed to the occupation."
"The American and government forces are trying to push into the center of Sadr City. The Mehdi Army has taken up defensive positions and does nothing but respond when attacked," said the local chief of the Sadrist movement.
"We have tried many times to start negotiations to end the violence but we have been refused," he added. "Four days ago, a delegation of tribal chiefs tried to see Prime Minister Maliki. He categorically refused to see them."
"We will obey the orders of Muqtada al-Sadr but if the violence against the Iraqis continues, if the blood of Iraqis continues to be spilled, the cease-fire will definitely be lifted."
Apparently, the Sadrists have been fighting a defensive battle only while trying to negotiate for an end to the attacks. The al-Maliki Government and US Forces appear to be engaging in attrocities in an attempt to eliminate the Sadrists as a political force. The Sadrists are warning they have the capability to go on the offensive. Sounds like they had better do it quick before they are wiped out. _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
Quote:
The collective thrust of the international community towards Iraq in the last 5 years has been to shrug its shoulders and say "you broke it, you bought it" and walk away. I don't think that helps matters either.
Um, nope. The UN wanted to have a strong role in post-War Iraq. That proposal had a lot of backing by the majority of the international community, with the exception of perhaps a couple of countries which wanted a 'coalition of the willing'.
Well, people have continued to propose UN control of Iraq. Such plans have been repeatedly dismissed.
The US strategic planners want other countries to shed blood in a conflict solely on their terms. That is unacceptable.
Last edited by Kaj on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1723 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fighting rages in Sadr City
...with the exception of perhaps a couple of countries which wanted a 'coalition of the willing'.
That's because they are thinking, "We fought to steal that oil, we should get to keep it. (and no damned Iraqi people are gonna keep us from it.)"
"Bringing Democracy to the Middle East for over 5 years" _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
It riles them to believe that you perceive the webs they weave. - Moody Blues
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