Population Reduction and Rebuttal Thread

anarky321

can you stop referring to my posts as 'raging' its getting pretty f*cking annoying

and stop referring to me as hopeless

modern society is hopeless, the future of our species is not; big difference

""you think you can change the "psychology" of reproduction but adoption is doomed to fail because of "natural instincts." ""

no

adopting a completely strange child into your family is a modern construct, and has no basis in instinct, on an animal level it makes no sense to spend the time and energy to raise someone else's offspring, yes you could layer that way of thinking on people by educating them from childhood that adoption is a good thing, but it is not something that is innate; adopting a relative in the case of death of their parent is a different thing completely

reproduction is the process of having new organisms, but the psychology of reproduction is split into mating and child-raising, two completely different activities; the mating process itself is almost completely instinct based but the way we approach it is based on the rules of the society that we live in, thus the psychology of the mating game is mostly taught

the psychology of raising children is taught, what i mean by that is things like prohibition of contraceptives, marriage, prohibition of abortion, illegality of infanticide, prohibition of child abuse, encouragement of procreation by the church/parents, etc, etc. , obviously a large part of motherhood is instinctive such as breast feeding, etc,

but what i am referring to is the psychology of child-bearing, the layer of thought that goes on top of the instinct based parentage, it is molded by society from early childhood
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Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5430 Location: Oklahoma

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5430 Location: Oklahoma

anarky321

I am not a woman, and i have a sneaking suspicion that you might be, but i will still answer this

first as for men, i firmly believe that there's no 'urge' to reproduce, only culturally-induced desires; what there is is an urge to mate, babies are a side-effect, it is so with every animal species; a lion doesnt want to procreate when it mates with the lionness, he wants to get off

you say women have an instinctual "urge" to have offspring, i call bs (lets remember im a guy so i have no way of verifying this) and instead suggest that it is a combination of above given reasons + culturally-induced desire to have kids ("everybody is doing it!!")

when a woman sees a hot guy she doesnt think 'wow i need to make a baby..now', no she thinks about mating, mating leads to children, every woman knows that but on an animal level the urge is to mate not to procreate

now, when the child arrives there is an instinctual urge to care for it, undoubtedly, but once again this is only after the birth, the original intent of the mating is usually pleasure not children, with humans its messy because we actually know how reproduction works and exactly what you have to do to have children and how to do it, but speaking about female mammals in general i think its safe to say a bonobo is not aware that the male sperm combines with the female egg in the womb to create another organism, its instinct tells it to mate, and once the baby is born its instinct tells it to care for the child, thus the cycle goes on

perhaps the reason women feel an 'urge' to have a child is they feel that motherly instinct by seeing other women care for their children, thus igniting their own motherly feelings, but a large part of this is cultural

ill also say that a large large percentage of women do not feel any strong 'urges' to have kids, as evidenced by the sky-high abortion rates and widespread use of contraceptives among fertile females, or if you want to be specific by polls taken on the subject; a woman can have a strong sex drive and be good looking and not particularly like children and still be just as successful in reproductive terms as a breeder who would love nothing more than to raise a small army out of her womb

once again, being a guy, me theorizing on female psychology of reproductive urges is comic at best, so id love to have some input from females on this...
_________________
Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””

overlever

anarky321

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

http://www.vhemt.org/biobreed.htm

the link above is to an anti-breeding site, and a very informative one at that (best ive ever come across), its all on one page id highly suggest checking it out, alot of the arguments ive made against breeding i got from there

i also have a strange suspicion it was made by a woman

ps: check out the 2nd picture down (guy with newspaper)
_________________
Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5430 Location: Oklahoma

LOL. I wish I still knew everything, like I did when I was twenty. And that I didn't know first hand about these things I mentioned. And that I was born male.
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"Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5430 Location: Oklahoma

Ludi

I'm one of those rare women who has no mother urge. I think babies are cute, but I've never especially wanted to have one.

I think kitties and puppies are cute, too.

http://www.cuteoverload.com/

So, there's my input on the reproductive urge. I don't have one to speak of.
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No original ideas are contained in this post.

anarky321

wisconsin_cur · Moderator Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2967

There is a lot to reply to, if I skip over something in the hopes of priotorization that someone wants addressed please let me know.

1. Adoption is not just a modern construct. The Romans adopted and the children were given the same rights as natural born children, sometimes prefered to the natural born children. This in a culture that also practiced infantcide.

2. I find your decisions about what is culture and what is instinct rather eclectic and i do cannot perceive how you make your choices. For example, you deny an urge to reproduction which, if we are biological at all would seem to me the most basic of instincts. Breath, drink, eat, reproduce, repeat... yet you look to apes when discussing the issue of adoption.

3. Re: raging, When you call the current world as it is as a sh*thole and complain about all the f@cking heavy breeders and attempt to deny what is good in the world, and you cannot even address the issue of me calling it rage with out swearing, yes I think you are full of rage. I can keep that observation to myself if you like, it doesn't change the fact that you present yourself as full of rage.

4. I find it rather insulting that you can detail everyone else's "real" reasons for doing things (ie having children) and dictating how truly loving an adopted child is impossible. You are projecting your own emotions on others. As a male of a certain age it may seem it is all about sex but as we develop it becomes more than that. Not that men ever stop enjoying sex or even being preoccupied by it, but we appreciate other things as well. Like children, sunsets, snowmen, baseball and the advent of spring.

5. I am still waiting for your hope. Modern society is doomed. Fine we are agreed. The source of that doom is what? You say it is cultural, we would disagree, but that is ok. I need you to tell me how it is that those cultural things will change after modernity dies even though you do not think they can be changed now (governed as we are by social pressures). All I hear is negativity and disdain, if you have hope, tell us what it is.

6. If you think everyone else is beyond hope (bound to culture as we are) explain how it is that you are exempt. Or can we really make changes in the here and now? Maybe I am exempt too, just in a different way, even though I am a "heavy breeder?" I don't know what you think because I have yet to read a coherent distinction between the apparent misanthropic attitudes you have have for modern man and the somehow better people we will become afterwards.

Cur
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"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens" -Friedrich von Schiller

coffee

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anarky321

yes cur you can say what you think, however i will no longer reply to any of your posts since you could not follow a simple request of mine

ignore list>added

cheers

wisconsin_cur · Moderator Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2967

How convenient for your ~~argument~~ position.
_________________
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens" -Friedrich von Schiller

coffee

"Got farm?" -MD

overlever