Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 2835 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
Funny you'd mention coons, a friend's neighbors bought a gaggle of exotic ducks at their foot-stomping daughter's insistence, they were waddling around the yard and the owners took off for an hour, when they got back two of them had been killed by a coon, two others half-eaten. My friend offered to kill the survivors, put 'em out of their misery. The husband said he'd do it but later said they decided "there's been enough killing" and they left the ducks to suffer for about four more hours. Made me kinda sick hearing about it - crap, just don't look when the ax hits home.
My friend has chickens, the raccoons don't mess with 'em for whatever reason. They put up a fight I suppose. No fly bait in Pepsi - whatcha getting at there?
Small town relocation for me, I have little back to spare. Veggie gardens. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
You will receive no bill.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11881 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
I have developed some predator-proof (so far) coops. If you want to know the particulars, I'd be happy to share.
I don't believe in trapping, poisoning, shooting, etc, predators. We have to outsmart them, not try to kill them. But that's just my wacky tree-hugger philosophy. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 384 Location: Windy City No Longer
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
Ludi wrote:
I have developed some predator-proof (so far) coops. If you want to know the particulars, I'd be happy to share.
I don't believe in trapping, poisoning, shooting, etc, predators. We have to outsmart them, not try to kill them. But that's just my wacky tree-hugger philosophy.
Ludi-
I traditionally follow a live and let live philosophy. No bugs/bats/rodents/other in the house, but most are welcome everywhere else. However, we have a real plague of raccoons and possums in around here this year. We had a mild winter and a dry spring, so they are everywhere. Again, I'm ok with that until they get in the barn and eat all the cat food, knock over the recyclables, and kill all the chickens.
Actually, I've read that raccoons are more of a problem in winter when protein is scarce. This is why I've been taking a no prisoner philosophy. Right now, my birds free range across our front 5 acres with no problem in daylight. If the raccoons are this persistent at the height of summer, then this winter will be a nightmare day and night.
Aside: Mix about 4-5 tablespoons of fly bait in with about a cup or two of Pepsi. A full grown raccoon will make it about 5 feet after drinking the Pepsi. Keep away from any pets/kids/birds that you are attached to emotionally. _________________ TANSTAAFL
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
Thanks for the thoughtful comments folks!
On the subject of hard work, age and such, I sure ain’t as tough as I was doing piece-work framing at 20! But one thing age does give you is a little experience.
When I worked for the jewelry store chain, I once had to move a 500 or so pound safe about 10 feet to do a little remodeling. Of course when I showed up the 20-something salesmen all mysteriously went to lunch. When they returned the safe was moved and I was talking up the girls in the office. They young guys looked at my like I was tough; I had already put the pry bar I used to lift the safe and the steel rods I had rolled it on back in the truck.
Point is of course, if you keep your eyes open you can learn all sorts of Indian Tricks that make up for all sorts of muscle. I surely can’t build fence all day, but I can pound a few posts, stretch some wire and go do something a little less strenuous until I recoup. A little age also give one a little more patience.
The story about the retired guy who dreamed of but ultimately found he hated golf is a good one. The thing I take away from the story is not to necessarily golf full time at 30 but to do a little putt-putt, go to the driving range, maybe take a few lessons to test the water. If you haven’t kept a few hens or rabbits, grown a few plants, fixed your backyard fence or repaired a faucet leak – and basically found some satisfaction doing it, it doesn’t matter how many dream books you read you ain’t gonna make any kind of farmer.
No matter how old you are.
I don’t want to change the direction here but one last thing I would mention to any neophyte, of any age, wanting to learn about farming or anything else: put your pride in your pocket. If you’re green you are green; whether you are 15 or 50. Expect to be laughed at, yelled at and your time taken advantage of, it’s the price of experience.
If you are too proud to show your ignorance, best be content with it because it ain’t going away. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Jun 05, 2005 Posts: 349 Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
Thanks for the interesting thread, Pops.
We have 2 small children who, of course, love animals. With all the talk of PO, organic farming, environmentalism, etc in our house the subject of starting a small farm operation comes up frequently. My wife and I (both in our 30s) have always considered taking up this daunting task. We may actually take the plunge, but I see it as more likely that my children will.
If the kids want to do this, they can can educate themselves for it early and we can help later on by selling our house in inner Portland for the land. That way, we provide the capital for the land, and they provide the youthful energy to get it going.
Thank you for the reality checks about how difficult it is to get such an operation of the ground. We were really inspired by Joel Salatin in The Omnivore's Dillema and the local grass farming heroes at our local Farmer's Market. We'll see what the future holds. You can be sure I'll post it here.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1195 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
SpringCreekFarm wrote:
Pops wrote:
Thanks Ian.
Everything is hard when you think everything may change.
Keep us posted...
That's a good quote Pops. It pretty much describes the dilemma I'm in right now over haying. Why invest in the sickle mower, rake and baler when I may not be able to get gas that time of year let alone be able to afford it. I'd hate to make the investment just to be stifled. It makes everything harder when you feel change is inevitable.
Time to learn the ancient art of making haystacks? _________________ Kind regards, Katkinkate
"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops,
but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
Masanobu Fukuoka
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
Pops wrote:
Expect to be laughed at, yelled at and your time taken advantage of, it’s the price of experience.
Oh, man that's the truth. Going through that now.
On one side I have the well-meaning, armchair farmer who is always ready with a critique about what I am doing. He stands, arms folded, jaw flapping as I toil alone. Via his well-read, running commentary I have actually learned many useful tidbits. He also acts as a buffer for the lone "yeller" to follow:
Nearby, a semi-wealthy couple in their McMansion are freaking out about property values. It makes me sad that we might not ever be friendly neighbours. The rural zoning law is on my side, fortunately.
To appease them somewhat, I have made sure everything looks pretty and tidy. I've used quality stone and wood. My studio and potting shed is as yet unfinished, but looks nice so far. The outhouse is cute, surrounded by rosebushes for satire. But an orchard is an orchard, and a veggie garden is a veggie garden, even if you plant flowers all around it.
The cottagers along the lake do offer encouragement. The farmers and the ranch down the road chuckle, but are too busy to say more.
The real laughers are my suppliers. They take their sweet time delivering cedar/compost/whatever. (Eager newbies, be prepared for that kind of treatment. Developing relationships with rural suppliers takes time. You are bottom of the list priority-wise.) Fortunately I can laugh with them because I embrace my oddness. I tell them, "This is my TV! I'd rather watch plants grow. Thanks for the lamb poo!"
Then there's the raccoooooons. Always the raccoons. Laughing allaway into the forest, with my food. Having solved the rabbit problem, I will find a better way to make them stay away from my stuff and have fun doing it.
Hobby farming without big machinery is among the hardest work you'll ever do, and takes unbelievable perseverance. I consider myself to be at the serious amateur stage of the learning/experience curve. I'm reasonably young, but doubt I'll ever make it to "small farmer."
To answer your question, I think/hope the new small farmers will be those on small organic farms who set up CSAs. There is one on my island, and her business is booming. She offers internships now, and has a lot of interest coming from young families who want to do this.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
SpringCreekFarm wrote:
It pretty much describes the dilemma I'm in right now over haying.
Just another little aside, have you thought about purchasing ground-driven implements that could be converted to animal traction at some point? Our Amish neighbor even has a big round baler with a 5-10hp engine that only kicks in when the baler needs to stop and wrap.
My little 40hp diesel tractor otoh, though almost 30 years old, only has a little over a thousand hours on it – barely broke in. It has always been kept in a shed and is in perfect shape and aside from rubber and such will easily go another 50 years or more. If it came down to it I gladly would trade a young calf for 20 gals of fuel for that little bugger.
Come to think of it, a spare set of tires, belts, wiring harness, etc would be a great investment – if I had anything left to invest….
IanC wrote:
That way, we provide the capital for the land, and they provide the youthful energy to get it going.
I guess that pretty well sums why I think Boomers may lead the way – and basically what we are doing. Although I am kind of surprised at how fast things appear to be moving regarding PO I still think the bad stuff will come a ways down the road.
So while I am enjoying an early retirement (snort!) playing farmer, I am learning the ropes and trying to improve this little place so if one or more of our kids or grandkids has the desire or need they can take over sometime down the road.
Then I can be the crusty old fart sitting in the shade telling them what they are doing wrong!
Now that sounds good. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Who Will Be The New Small Farmer?
Pops wrote:
On the other hand, many are starting little operations like blueberry farms, market gardens, raising livestock of all kinds, doing custom harvesting and skilled trades. A surprising number buy my heirloom seedlings and smilingly admit they won’t be back because they intend to save seed! Cool!
I haven’t met any of the Ziffels' in that group but they aren’t Oliver and Lisas' either. (http://www.maggiore.net/greenacres/gacast.asp )
Anyway, it seems to me this trend might be happening in other locations as well and the influx of cash, hippy-type ideas about environmentalism, conservation, healthy foods and newer methods of production could lend a hand to the revival of rural America and local food that I think is going to be a requirement in the post peak years.
Great post, Pops.
I'm in the same boat with you. I too see, while very slowly, folks starting to realize the Walmart way of life is coming to a close.
I don't see much of anybody actually "doing" anything about it yet but maybe that will come soon. Maybe it's a slow process? It's possible!
Mostly I've noticed a gradual recognition that supermarket fruit/veggies are simply not worth buying. As Cluster says, the 3,000 mile salad days may be coming to a close and/or getting too expensive.
Buying "local" is a slow trend I see happening more and more.
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