Biofuel Applications

Aaron · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: Biofuel Applications

So how many turkeys ya think it will take to run this bad boy?

Cars, cars, cars...

Even if we can figure out ways to propel people around post peak, what about the entire class of machines for which there is no substitute?

I can think of many examples myself, but how about you guys fill in the blanks here?

Just what kinds of machines would be impractical or impossible to operate as oil becomes scarce?
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0mar · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:32 am Post subject:

Most coal machinery consumes 100 or so gallons of diesel per an hour. Concievably, if you have enough feedstock (ie people guts) then you could probably run that bad boy.
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highlander · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:

Well, you take a nuke plant from a decomissioned submarine and it should just about work. Did you see what that thing did with the D8 crawler!

You should quit posting items like this because you are turning me into a doomer!
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MD · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:36 am Post subject:

Aircraft
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Antimatter · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:47 am Post subject:

That beast is apparently electric. Smile

nocar · Intermediate Crude Joined: Nov 05, 2004 Posts: 688

entire class of machines --
leaf blowers and lawn mowers - glad to see them go, hate when our neighbors destroy the peace,

nocar

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2231

Mmm, can't think of that many really.

-airplanes are covered: biokerosene and biojetfuel already exist (will be presented at the World Biomass Conference in Paris at the end of this year), and for smaller aircraft there are ultra-efficient diesel engines, which can be converted to run on biodiesel - so the entire class of aircraft is covered
-ships are covered: marine biodiesel
-trucks are covered: biodiesel
-mining equipment: idem
-trains are covered: biodiesel
-most other heavy machinery works either on diesel or on electricity

The only thing I don't see working on some kind of biofuel is the Space Shuttle. However, I just occurs to me that Space Ship One used rubber and laughing gas, which means the rubber can be natural latex, a biofuel, while you can produce the N2O by oxidizing organic compounds at high temperatures - meaning it's even possible to make suborbital space flights using only biofuels! Shocked

Aaron · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:13 am Post subject:

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2231

Wildwell · Fission Joined: Feb 03, 2005 Posts: 2080 Location: UK

Some quick calculations:

Best bio fuel yields:

Corns yields 18 gallon/acre
Kenaf yields 29 gallon/acre(Also yield 6-10 tons/acre of fibre that can make papers, not to chop down so many trees!)
Soy Bean yields 48 gallon/acre
Coconuts yields 287 gallon/acre
Oil Palm yield 635 gallon/acre

One Boeing 747 requires around 42,000 US gallons fuel payload.

Therefore to fill one plane, you need at least:

Corn: 2333 acres
Kenaf: 1449 acres
Soy Bean: 875 acres
Coconuts: 146 acres
Oil Palm: 66 acres

UK Aviation fuel requirement 2003:

3434600000 US gallons aprox
would require:

715544166 acres of Soy bean
or
5408818 acres of Oil Palm

In world war II, during a national emergency the total agricultural area of England was 30251000 acres – not that we could grow palm oil.

Whats the EROEI for this stuff Lorenzo?

BTW we can assume a lot more land is needed for an AVgas replacement. Doesn't look too good to me..

Aaron · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:42 am Post subject:

DriveElectric · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 639

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2231

Ok, we've had this discussion a few times before.

If you demand of biofuels that they replace ALL petroleum ALL at once TOMORROW, we won't get there. But things don't work that way.

We start to blend. First 2%, then 5% (EU: 5.5% by 2012), then 8% etc...

Biofuels are a transtitional and complementary energy source, not one with which to replace all petroleum at once.

It will delay depletion, and give us time to boost efficiency and invest in batteries, nuclear and possibly hydrogen and fusion.

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2231

Moreover, I'm defending it, because I'm (in the process of) investing in it, just to become a biodiesel millionaire. And I will, because once a barrel of oil hits more than US$ 45, I'm making a profit. Each dollar on top of it, goes straight into this boys' pocket. So there. Smile

By the way, I take it you use the yields from the webpage "journey to forever". They're quite optimistic and true maximum yields. For palm oil, you need a realistic average of 550-575 gallons per acre.

Aaron · Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: