I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Want cheap, green electricity? The Australians have a simple answer. First, build a 20,000-acre greenhouse to trap and heat air. Then build a colossal tower 1 km (.62 miles) tall in the middle of it. The warm air from the greenhouse will rise through the tower as it would through a chimney, turning turbines and generating enough electricity to power 200,000 Australian homes. It may sound like science fiction, but the project is on track to get approved by the Australian government........ _________________ "The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
Definately a case of I'll belive it when I see it. A building of 80 square km?? That's one big-ass greenhouse. Anyone know what the largest building on earth is?
Joined: Jun 02, 2004 Posts: 1078 Location: Bristol, UK
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject:
Agren wrote:
Anyone know what the largest building on earth is?
Largest building by volume is the Boeing factory, covers 98.3acres (0.4 square KM!!!).
linkl _________________ "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen." The Emperor (Return of the Jedi)
The Oil Drum: Europe
Originally a German concept, the first solar chimney was built in Spain and delivered clean electricity for years in the early 1980s. So it worked. No question about that.
Compared to other clean technologies though, the concept does not come very cheap.
Still, it's a neat invention.
Some clever people have had the fantastic idea to build self replicating solar chimneys in the Saharan desert, where you have everything you need to build the stuff (sand, rock, sun). Greening the desert by robots who're building solar chimneys, the energy of which is used to desalinate water... one day it may become a reality. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
Do you even know how "big" 20,000 acres is? It might be helpful if you walked it off. It is structurally impossible. What happens in a hail storm?The Graphic you displayed probably only covers about 1/20th of 20,000.
Do you even know how "big" 20,000 acres is? It might be helpful if you walked it off. It is structurally impossible. What happens in a hail storm?The Graphic you displayed probably only covers about 1/20th of 20,000.
Did you watch the cool video? We need some of those in the States for sure just because they are cool! _________________ "The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil" ............ Former Saudi Arabian oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani,
Would be wonderful if they got it to work on such a large scale. Completely emission free. Fantastic. How many would you need to replace the current set up we have (y'know, oil and all that)? _________________ We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
I'll ignore the sarcasm on this thread and give you all my thoughts on this.
I like it. It's certainly not cheap to build, but this is not like fusion or other pipe-dreams. We have the technology and we know it will work. When approved it will take less than 3 years to build at a cost of about 700 million. Sure it's a lot of money but look at what you get: almost free (less than 20 people will run the facility) electricity for as long as the thing exists. The tower is the main vulnerability because concrete does not last forever. However re-building the tower is not that expensive - the main expense is covering the large footprint with plastic and glass.
It uses only the sun for fuel, it generates electricity 24 hours a day, and it's easy to maintain. The site chosen for this first full-scale plant is geologically stable, gets lots of sun and very little bad weather.
The outer edge will also be used as an actual greenhouse - in it crops that cannot survive in the surrounding areas will thrive. Also tourism will help offset the cost.
The plan is to build 5 of these in the Wentworth area. Way better than building more coal plants!
Sure on its own it will not save us from peak oil, but its a great step in the right direction.
Joined: Apr 02, 2005 Posts: 1001 Location: Down Under
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:17 am Post subject:
UncoveringTruths wrote:
Do you even know how "big" 20,000 acres is? It might be helpful if you walked it off. It is structurally impossible.
Have you seen how much free, empty and completely un-used land we have here? Australia is MASSIVE, and most of it is completely empty (and very steady climate-wise), perfect for this kind of construction. And it’s certainly not structurally impossible – most of it just sits above the ground.
I like the idea, I think it’s certainly worth a shot. My only issue is:
BiGG wrote:
generating enough electricity to power 200,000 Australian homes
Who’s homes exactly? This massive plant in the outback sure as hell ain’t gonna power less then a quater of Brisbane’s population (for example) given the current American style way of life we seem to live. It would be great for rural areas, but I can’t see it doing much for the majority of the population living in the big cities.
Great idea though, I hope the project gets the go ahead.
1. I just wanted to add that the European solar tower, which operated in Manzaranes, Spain, for over 8 years in the 1980s, was destroyed by a storm.
The same German firm is now building the tower in Australia, and they may have altered the materials and done more meteorological research. But still, such a gigantic greenhouse looks fragile (the European tower was ten times smaller).
2. For those who want an idea of how many towers you'd need to replace simple coal-fired power stations, look at this comparison:
Comparisons
If Solar chimneys are to replace conventional sources of electricity production in NSW, then quite a number have to be built. Consider the following statistics:
* The Coal-fired power station near Lithgow - Wallerawang - produces 1000 MW of electrical power.[1] (http://www.de.com.au/Online/Default.asp?DeptID=191)
* The Coal-fired power station on Lake Macquarie - Vales Point - produces 1320 MW of electrical power. [2] (http://www.de.com.au/Online/Default.asp?DeptID=192)
* The Coal-fired power station near Mudgee - Mount Piper - produces 1320 MW of Electrical power.[3] (http://www.de.com.au/Online/Default.asp?DeptID=190)
* The Coal-fired power station on Lake Macquarie - Munmorah - produces 1400 MW of Electrical Power.[4] (http://www.skmconsulting.com/pagetemplates/content/popup.cfm?id=840)
* The Coal-fired power station near Muswellbrook - Liddell - produces 2000 MW of electrical power.[5] (http://www.macgen.com.au/about_us/liddell.htm)
* The Coal-fired power station on Lake Macquarie - Eraring - produces 2640 MW of electrical power.[6] (http://www.deh.gov.au/industry/corporate/eecp/case-studies/eraring.html)
* The Coal-fired power station near Muswellbrook - Bayswater - produces 2640 MW of electrical power.[7] (http://www.macgen.com.au/about_us/bayswater.htm)
* The Hydro-electric power stations in the Snowy Mountains produce 3756 MW of electrical power.[8] (http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/levelTwo.asp?pageID=244&parentID=242)
In order for the seven coal-fired power stations above to be replaced, 62 Solar chimneys must be built (assuming 200 MW each). This does not include other, smaller power stations throughout NSW, nor the rest of Australia.
From Wikipedia. _________________ The Beginning is Near!
I'm not so sure about the cheap part. If the project could be built
at a cost of $20 per square foot, the investment per family would
be about $86,000.
The height of the tower is nearly twice as tall as structure yet built.
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It might be helpful if you walked it off. It is structurally impossible. What happens in a hail storm?The Graphic you displayed probably only covers about 1/20th of 20,000. 
