I'm interested in discussing plans for a total cutoff of water and electricity. I have a wife and two middle age school kids. We live in a single family home in a suburb 30 miles outside a multi million population US city. I'm assuming an immediate evaporation of all local food and fuel supplies.

I will kick it off with a couple of ideas. Prepare by storing 90 days of food and water in the house. When TSHTF, I say stay put and hide in the house. You can pretty much assume massive dehydration/starvation will take place in entire region. I have a couple of reasons why I don't think surburban track homes will be automatically sacked by delerious mobs. But I think you'll be dead for sure on the roads.

I assume also that if the government hasn't established order and supply chain within 90-180 days, you're basically screwed. It's nice to fantasize about preparing some utopian rural escape in advance. I don't see the point of discussing this option. I doubt these places will have much of a chance , unless a large, well armed group of people build a defendable fortress. You also take a great risk in traveling there. Sorry, but if the government doesn't reestablish order, this place is going to make Mad Max and Soylent Green look like a day at Disneyworld. So I'm interested in discussing how to best protect yourself and lay low in case the chaos is only temporary. I especially like to hear from people who are a similar lifestyle environment as I am. At this point, I mostly trying to balance emergency supply needs with practical space and cost issues. Thanks in advance for everyone's thougts.

40 years old and they are still at school?

Plan your water consumption, what do you need to wash etc as well as drink and use for cooking? Dehydrated foods take a lot of water.

Sorry, was typo I meant 6th and 8th grade.

My environment isn't much different from yours; I think 90 days is a good goal for food. I'm satisfied with 2 weeks worth of water, partly because a small lake is within easy walking distance of my house. On the downside, that means risk to travel; but if things are that bad, it seems likely that one could use whatever means were necessary to get to the water.

I have quite a lot of weaponry, and of course it would be worthwhile for you to consider some as well. A shotgun, loaded with #10 shot, might work well; that way, there's much less risk of innocent people getting hurt or killed if one fires it.

You might want to get a couple shake lights, and be sure to have something to warm up the food.

Lastly, I'm starting to work on the communications issue. I have a ham radio license - the lower grade ones, such as I have, seem fairly easy to obtain - and a couple radios might offer options not otherwise available.

Welcome to peak oil!

As someone who lives on a farm, Daryl, I take offense at your assertion that people in rural places will not have "much of a chance." Only a suburbanite could hold such a view. As far as I'm concerned, "suburban" and "post-collapse survival" are mutually contradictory.

And what makes you think your suburban fortress is any less subject to attack than my country one?

He's probably assuming that some people in the Suburbs will run to the wilderness and sack your place... once they see people dying... (if he thinks food will dry up quickly - yikes!)

(I'm not considering that food will dry up quickly in any of my scenarios in the future... so, the most I have planned is a bunch of favorites linked in a folder called 'DIY/Survivalist'...)

If food dries up quickly... no ones safe unless you're a tank of gas and a 3 days walk away from the nearest suburb. I think the whole scenario is pretty tough to plan for for anybody within distance of civilization. It's not going to be pretty. (How would food dry up quickly??)

Once supermarkets sell out of their day's supply, it wasn't resupplied the next day, and the food distribution networks broke down, food would run out pretty damn quickly.

Me think you might be a little too optimistic here. Something like two weeks could cause damage beyond repair to the entire machinery.

The problem as I see it is that the systems are to complex to be evaluated for viability. There is no way to tell how much it would take to break the system. Mankind has never been in a similar fix before, having our mere lives depending on such an enormous and complex machine as our current supply chain.

Anyhow, IF the unthinkable happen and the machine breaks down, any kind of preparations would aim not to outrun the bear, merely to outrun your fellow hunter. 90 days of food and ways to prepare it will take you a hell of a way ahead of virtually anybody else. Assuming you keep it secret that is!

You survive best in the land that you know. Suburbians might very well find it easier to survive in what's left of the suburbs, compared to heading out of town, or into town.

Go out to your local favorite home improvement store and get two apple trees, and plant one in each corner of your backyard. This time of year, they are cheap. It will be a couple of years before they start to bear fruit, so better sooner than later. Also, expand your backyard flower beds so that they can be easily adapted for squash and tomatoes. Luckily, the same conditions that are good for flowers will be fine for tomatoes. Last year, I was able to grow bountiful squash and fair tomatoes in a 10 X 10 area in the back, with minimal attention. This can easily be expanded to your entire backyard, and yield increased by "trying". Timing is an important issue. The most vulnerable time is right now. It will be a good 8-9 months in most areas before winter will pass, spring will come, a garden can be planted, and it will bear some edibles. There are a few exceptions to this, and others can fill us in on what varieties of cabbage, beets, etc. will live over winter depending on what your weather is like. Go down to the garden store this week and buy last year's seeds on clearance. You can occasionally get them for 10 cents a packet in the fall. Put them in a cool, dry place. If spring comes and armageddon has not happened yet, throw them out and do not worry about it. While you are at it, hoard some some malithion or sevin on clearance. It will keep for a long time if you keep it out of the sunlight.

Along one side of your backyard, install a koi pond, in such a way that it is close to your downspouts, but not too close or you will attract termites and degrade your foundation. If armageddon happens, this will be your rainwater collection/cistern/source of water/place to store excess catfish. Mine is about 15 feet long and about 4 feet deep in the middle, and currently has in it "comets" which are only 10 cents apiece if you get them young, but will get about 6 inches long if the conditions are good. I got the big good kind of pond with the EPDM liner and the rocks, etc. and some lily pads scrounged from a local lake, but this can be done on a smaller scale with cheaper materials. Also, mine is deep enough that it won't freeze. I have a circulating pump but it's also big enough to have generated some plant life so the water stays pretty good even when the pumps are off. A good used hot tub can be had around here for about $1000 and this can be easily converted to water storage if necessary.

As for electricity, you still have time to scout around for a big army surplus generator, which can be had for a couple hundred bucks. This will tide you over during times when the grid goes out. It's my theory that most of the time, electricity will still work most everywhere, but there will be occasional outages. If your homeowners' association allows you to have a big shed in your backyard, build one, and put this into it. Even if they do not allow it, put one in anyway, because they will usually only go after you if you try to sell the house. Gotta be careful plugging this in though because if you are hooked up to the grid when the power comes back on it could cause a problem.

Also, in this shed, start accumulating tools of various kinds, including hand tools such as hand saws, hammers, and wood drills.

Most suburbian lakes have an indigenous population of fish, of whatever type, and occasionally other edible wildlife, such as squirrels, deer etc. If there is a nearby lake, with no fish in it, go to a "real lake" nearby and catch some and release them into the pond so you have a breeding stock.
As for suburban hunting, keep in mind that ratio of cops to citizens in suburbia is only about 1/10 as much as it is in the city, so if you are stealthy, you can easily collect your dinner and be back at the house before the cops show up, even if one of the busybody neighbors turns you in.

It is not completely unheard of for people to be pretty close to the water table in such a way that it is possible to drill a well and install a hand pump. These can be had at local garage sales occasionally, or available from tractor supply etc. and are reasonably cheap. This makes kind of a quaint decorator item in the backyard.

Transportation: I highly recommend an old motorcycle, the older the better. Learn to work on it. Bicycles will also be valuable when the traffic finally dies down.

The best part about all of this, is that as long as you keep your mouth shut and do not make a big deal about this PO issue, the neighbors and your wife will never figure out what you are doing. As far as they can tell, you are just Mr. Home Improvement and just doing some value-added stuff to beautify the house, plus occasionally ride around the neighborhood on that old bike.

You should spend some time sizing up your neighbors. Which ones are pains in the neck that you do not have around you? Which ones are kind of handy with tools and have useful skills such as electrical or plumbing? Do you have a lot of "desparate housewives", namely annoying divorced females that will be a drag on your survival system? Try not to be too friendly, and above all, do not go around bragging about how you are ready for armageddon, or you may end up having to deal with a lot of people banging on your door with a tin cup. Anybody with a lot of bad habits, such as excessive smoking or drinking will be a net drain on the system if their drug of choice becomes unavailable. If they come to you for a favor, search your soul about how friendly you need to be, but in general, it is good to be cooperative because you might need a favor at some point.

If you have younger kids, teach them the joy of hauling rocks and planting tomatoes. If you have older kids, prepare for them to move back into the house.

Finance: If you are really considering staying there, try to pay the place off. It may be a lot easier to come up with the property taxes as opposed to having to make mortgage payments. If the local conditions permit, start buying up your neighbors' homes for cents on the dollar and renting them back to them as they gradually go bankrupt. If your finances are not in such a condition right now that you can do that, get them in order.

I would recommend that you get yourself up to "code yellow" or whatever, which is to be aware of your surroundings, the lay of the land, and any possible disasters that might be on the horizon, and plan accordingly. I think you are probably already at that level.

Some quick suggestions:

(1) fire-extringuishers for each member of the family; if money is not an obstacle, also buy a fire proof hood/mask for each member of the family, which are about $70 apiece;
(2) Keep in mind that you have lots of water in your hot water heater and toilets so, in a crisis, save it - quit showering. Have lots of baby wipes around for general personal cleaning, but save the water in the hot water heater/toilets for drinking (go bathroom outside);
(3) In addition to food, stockpile toilet paper, trashbags, paper plates, etc for 90 days, get a portable toilet (waterless, camping type); I prefer peanut butter as a survival food. It has about a 2 year shelf life, is full of calories (fats, proteins, and carbs). Kids like it. I like it. You don't have to cook it, and you can eat it with your fingers.
(4) Lots of batteries, althought I like "shakelights" bc I too have young kids and my flashlights are always dead bc of them;
(5) Good sleeping bag for the entire family - you may not have any heat, and the sleeping bag can keep you warm. I prefer synthetic to down. Synthetic keeps you warm when wet. I prefer a bag rated to -30. You can get a cheap bag like this for under $100. The sleeping bag goes with you if you have to evac.
(6) Have evac plans that you and your kids know, ones that you can walk to. Actually establish a rally point outside the home, probably a block away, just in case you had to emergency evac for any reason. If you get separated from your kids, they know where to go, what to do when they get there, how long to wait for you. This is similar to a general fire drill anyway

I've found beets surprisingly difficult to grow. They are very delicate plants. I've had much better luck with turnips.

In the suburbs, especially the newer ones, most of the good soil around houses has been destroyed by earth-moving operations during construction and is therefore no longer suitable for agriculture. Suburbanites considering post-collapse survival should take a close look at their soil and, if necessary, start improving it.

Once those stored pesticides run out, watch out. An army of bugs is just waiting to claim your crop. It would probably be better to start learning how to garden without any pesticides.

I personally think that in a true "collapse" scenario, civil violence would be so massive as to obviate gentle outdoor activities like gardening, at least initially. Once the big dieoff is over, survivors might have a chance to grow some stuff. But survival would be a day-to-day affair forevermore.

A lot of my pessimism about survival, esp. in suburbs, derives from the difficulties I've had growing food under much better conditions than will exist after the collapse.

I've had good success growing beets, especially sugar beets. They are amazingly drought tolerant. My turnips got eaten by bugs...

"My environment isn't much different from yours; I think 90 days is a good goal for food. I'm satisfied with 2 weeks worth of water, partly because a small lake is within easy walking distance of my house. "


I am worried about bodies of water near my home during this type of total crisis. I think within a few days of grid loss, all populations will be making a panic beeline toward all lakes rivers and streams. The survivors at these locations will start foraging for food, using bodies of fresh water as a base. My advice is, don't risk going to the lake, store more water. hide in the house and hope no one comes.

It's possible that the risk of people systematically scavenging surbaban homes for food is limited. This is because they will not find much food in homes, it has already been all packed up by those who fled. What does concern me that they will figure out the water heater and toilet sources of water. Then you could see a systematic breaking and entering that would greatly increase your chances of being discovered.

I would make sure to have material to post signs on all the doors in my neighborhood saying "quarantined area. beware." Might help.

Thanks to everybody for their helpful comments!!

Gardening in suburbia (atleast mine) without a 10foot fence and razor line is not going to work (MY opinion!). I say this because i can hardly have a garden now without people staring/walking by and looking. Can you imagine what it would be like if they were a starving horde of white eyed zombies? My garden would be emptied!

Living out in the country away from the road would be hell of a lot safer for personal food production then living in a city surrounded by neighbors who could turn on you at any moment.

it may be an advantage to have the materials ready to reinforce a door or 2 (2X4's & wood screws). Water will be a concern, Have a 55 gal drum & several 5 or 7 gal water holders...as well as a way to collect/filter/haul new water. Turn off water main before water runs out or all that fresh water in your hot water heater may get drawn back out of it into the pipes.

Any smoke comming from a fireplace or wood burning stove will place you in danger (assuming the initial posts quick breakdown senario)...better to heat food in a tin/porcelin cup over candles/oil candles/oil lamps. Cover windows so nobody can see the light from your oil lamps. Best to leave everybody think that nobody is home.

use blankets & cloths to keep warm.

Fire your weapons only as a last resort.