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View unanswered posts | View active topics
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johnmarkos
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Post subject: THE Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) Thread (merg Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:02 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 893 Location: San Francisco, California
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CERA says no peak before 2020: I'm curious whether ODAC (or someone) has an analysis of this report in the works. link
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johnmarkos
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:43 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 893 Location: San Francisco, California
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Is CERA's assessment really so different from ODAC's? CERA says 16.5 Mb/day of new capacity, ODAC says 12.5 Mb/day from "mega projects."
Link to PDF
Perhaps the 4 Mb/day difference is from non-mega projects. So same data, different conclusions? The question is, does this new capacity make up for depletion and demand growth? ODAC says no, CERA says yes.
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smiley
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:34 pm |
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2142 Location: Europe
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Quote: Among the 11 OPEC members, Jackson said, "Really only Indonesia seems to be struggling to expand capacity." and a falling brick is struggling to fly.  I don't know. To estimate future production from OPEC is an estimated guess at best, so I can't comment on the extra 8 mb they expect from OPEC. However the 7.6 mb/d they expect from non OPEC seems very optimistic to say the least. Non OPEC production barely grew by 8 mbd in the past ten years. To believe that it is going to grow another 8 in the next 5 years, despite countries like Mexico, Brazil and Russia being tapped out, requires some strong imagination. Quote: The question is, does this new capacity make up for depletion and demand growth? ODAC says no, CERA says yes.
Perhaps this explains the difference. It makes a big difference how you incorporate the depletion rates. Campbell is pretty negative when it comes to calculating the decline rates of different countries, much more negative than most analysts.
However if you look at the decline of various countries in the past year then he might be right doing so (eg. Australia -17%, UK -13%, Oman -7.4%, US -5%).
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johnmarkos
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:48 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 893 Location: San Francisco, California
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In the geek world we have a term, "FUD," which stands for fear, uncertainty, and doubt, as in, "SCO is just spreading FUD." I propose an equivalent term for peakers, "HUD," which stands for hope, uncertainty and doubt.
In other words, CERA is just spreading HUD.
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0mar
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:51 pm |
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1610 Location: Davis, California
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Demand is supposed to be like 120 million barrels by 2020. This should be the standard against which oil production should be measured against.
80 + 20 = 100. We are short 20 million barrels by this account. Therefore, peak or no, we are in trouble.
_________________ Joseph Stalin
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
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nuhax
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Post subject: CERA: Oil Peak Not Coming Soon Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:33 am |
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 62
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"Global oil production is not likely to peak anytime soon, contrary to talk that has helped propel prices close to $60 a barrel, although lower prices may still be a few years away, a prominent energy consultancy said Tuesday.
Cambridge Energy Research Associates said that, instead of a crest being reached sometime this decade, an inflection point in world oil output will occur sometime beyond 2020, after which production will plateau for several more decades."
This is from the firm founded by Daniel Yergin, the guy who wrote The Prize.
Comments?
Last edited by nuhax on Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Raxozanne
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:43 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 998 Location: UK
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"Unfortunately, very few have listened to our alerts even though the signs have been so significant that even a blind hen should have seen them. Fifty years ago the world was consuming 4 billion barrels of oil per year and the average discovery was around 30 billion. Today we consume 30 billion barrels per year and the discovery rate is now approaching 4 billion barrels of crude oil per year"
Source: http://www.energybulletin.net/5655.html
I guess what's his face can tell us where the other 26 billion barrels are hiding?
_________________ Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
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Euric
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Post subject: No peak oil coming anytime soon! Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:49 am |
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 633
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No peak oil coming anytime soon! link so where is this abundance of oil going to come from? Is Harry Potter going to wave his magic wand over the oil fields and declare them full again? But it does sound like a good idea to spread such nonsense. Gives the neo-cons more time to finish building their bunkers and walled in communities before a real panic sets in.
Quote: WASHINGTON (AP) -- Global oil production is not likely to peak anytime soon, contrary to talk that has helped propel prices close to $60 a barrel, although lower prices may still be a few years away, a prominent energy consultancy said Tuesday. Cambridge Energy Research Associates said that, instead of a crest being reached sometime this decade, an inflection point in world oil output will occur sometime beyond 2020, after which production will plateau for several more decades.
In a report that builds upon earlier analyses by the Cambridge, Mass.-based consultancy, CERA said it believes that between now and 2010 there will be a substantial increase in worldwide oil production capacity. It said that "as a result, supply could exceed demand by as much as 6 million to 7.5 million barrels per day later in the decade" that will lead to an extended period of lower prices beginning as early as 2008.
The price of oil could "slip well below $40 a barrel as 2007-08 nears," CERA said.
Today, the supply cushion is only about 1.5 million barrels per day and that has markets extremely nervous about the possibility of a supply disruption. Oil prices are up more than 55 percent over the past year, in part because of the threat of hurricanes, terrorist attacks and labor strife in key oil production regions, such as the Gulf of Mexico, Iraq and Nigeria.
"Today's high prices are the result of an exceedingly tight and precarious supply-demand balance," CERA chairman Daniel Yergin said in a statement. "Yet significant new capacity will be coming on stream... The addition of that new capacity is what is required to improve the supply demand balance."
The CERA report is a counterweight to the predictions of some energy experts, who in recent years have been publishing books filled with charts and graphs that aim to prove that world oil production is about to peak, if it hasn't already.
The most recently published book to make that claim is called "Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy," which was written by Matthew R. Simmons, a Houston-based investment banker who is well-known in the petroleum industry.
Simmons argues that Saudi Arabia's best oil fields are aging rapidly and that the rest of the world needs to question the veracity of the kingdom's claim that it still has 260 billion barrels of petroleum left to pump.
The CERA report acknowledges that there will be fewer giant oil fields found and produced after 2010, but it argues that with new technology and multibillion dollar investments the petroleum industry has the ability to provide more than enough supply to meet rising demand.
"The main risks to our supply expansion scenario are above ground, not below ground -- changes in the political and operating climate that could delay expansion," Yergin said.
The debate about whether global output is on the cusp of an irreversible decline is not new -- petroleum engineers and executives have been hashing it out for decades. But it has garnered extra attention amid soaring prices and the revelation last year that Royal Dutch/Shell Group overstated its reserves, a key measurement of an oil company's future profit potential.
Lawrence J. Goldstein, president of PIRA Energy Group in New York, said he was present when Simmons met with Saudi officials to gather information for his book and that he remains an "agnostic" when it comes to the peak oil debate.
It isn't entirely clear, Goldstein said, whether today's tight global supply reflects a geologic limit that is being reached or if it merely signifies that the industry hasn't made the necessary investments to keep up with rising demand.
"The truth is, I don't know whether we're resource-constrained or effort-constrained, and neither does anybody else," he said.
On the New York Mercantile Exchange on Tuesday, July crude futures fell 32 cents to $59.05 per barrel.
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MD
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:52 am |
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3756 Location: On the ball
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I would like to view data in support of their claims.
_________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Waiting for the next bounce - md@peakoil.com
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Raxozanne
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:54 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 998 Location: UK
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Hang on: Quote: Both men expect non-conventional sources of crude to play a major role in meeting demand. Those include condensates, natural gas liquids, Canadian oil sands, and the ultra-deepwater. Those sources could account for nearly 35% of supply by 2020, CERA said. CERA said it doesn't accept the view that world oil production is close to a peak. Rather, the analysts see the so-called "inflexion" point materializing in the third or fourth decade of the century, and in contrast to a "peak", they expect an "undulating plateau" to persist for several decades. "One of the biggest challenges will be to find the giant projects of the next decade, which will put great pressure on the search for high-quality, significant opportunities that in themselves meet the criteria of 'big," Esser and Jackson said. After analyzing the data, CERA predicted that the capacity of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries will rise to 45.6 million barrels per day in 2010 from 36.8 million barrels per day in 2004. The analysts expect non-OPEC capacity to quickly increase by the end of the decade with additions of 7.5 million barrels per day to 55.8 million barrels per day. Calling Saudi Arabia "underexplored," the analysts predicted that the kingdom's capacity for production would increase by 1.5 to 2 million barrels per day to 12.5 million barrels per day in 2010
Source
Well Canadian oil sands, off shore deep water projects...
Non-Opec actually increasing production with Saudi Arabia 'unexplored'
Yes I bet finding giant fields that have not already been discovered will be 'a big challenge' in the next decade. Good luck guys.
{shortened URL /Agren}'
_________________ Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
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MD
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:55 am |
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 3756 Location: On the ball
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Raw propaganda, period.
_________________ "It's still all about energy!"
Waiting for the next bounce - md@peakoil.com
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Raxozanne
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:56 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 998 Location: UK
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Oh no we have two ongoing threads on the same subject again. Montequest help!
_________________ Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
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cat
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:58 am |
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 100 Location: Western Washington
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I went to CERA's web site to read the report, but it is just a press release so there was no statistics or other data to back up their claims. This makes it really hard to know what to make of their findings. If you read some of the other articles and what not on their web site they talk a lot about the impact China and other geopolitical events will have on oil demand. That seems to be their main focus. Some of which, seems to conflict with what they are saying about oil prices coming down in the next few years. The right hand must not be talking to the left.
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RG73
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:07 am |
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 202 Location: Austin, Tx
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That is some funny stuff. So OPEC is going to raise output by 9 million barrels a day in the next 5 years, and non-OPEC 7.5 million barrels a day in the same span. On the same fields that they are producing at a maximum rate right now?
Saudi underexplored? So what exactly have they been doing all these years? I mean their total reserves are always at 260 billion barrels, so I presume that they've been exploring plenty to keep those reserve numbers up. *cough* *cough* Uh huh.
Oh and we'll be find IF we basically find a lot of oil or oil like stuff that must be out there (because we haven't been looking)...ugh, and these people get paid for this crap?
And I love the "undulating plateau"--which is basically a prediction of peak oil anyway--volatility in the market and undulating supply and demand until a steep decline. They're basically admitting there will peak, but it will be drawn out for decades. Good work there.
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nero
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:16 am |
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 1448 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Well isn't that a ray of sunshine. I would be a little bit more reassured if I new that their analysis realistically deals with depletion. Evidently they are even more optimistic than IHS Energy which is most likely the data source for their analysis.
_________________ Biofuels: The "What else we got to burn?" answer to peak oil.
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