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Tanada
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:47 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 4976 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
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Aaron wrote: Quote: The French State still owns 79% of Areva – the company supplying the Finnish reactor,which also operates the French reprocessing plant at La Hague. Having unnecessarily givenlarge contracts to Areva over past years to reprocess its spent fuel, EdF has accumulated over80 tons of plutonium, and vast quantities of nuclear waste at the reprocessing plant at LaHague. So it is now confronted with huge liabilities, but insufficient funds to cover them.The Court of Accounts estimated France’s nuclear liabilities at Eur 71-billion, with Eur 48-billion of that belonging to EdF. There are also huge uncertainties attached to these liabilities.For example, the cost of a potential deep disposal facility for nuclear waste could be between40% and 230% higher than allowed for by EdF, according to radioactive waste managementagency Andra. (35). It appears, therefore, that EdF currently plans to fund only around half ofFrance’s nuclear liabilities.
Nuclear power is a failed technology which has failed to deliver. It has squanderedunparalleled, unstinting support from taxpayers around the globe leaving them with burdensthat may last for millennia. The idea that such an industry should be resuscitated with orwithout even more public subsidy is absurd. http://www.no2nuclearpower.org.uk/reports/Nuclear_Subsidies.pdf  That's just funny given that Edf turns a large profit every year selling electricity and that money is turned in to the French General Fund to be spent on other government expenditures.
_________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
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pstarr
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:52 am |
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 9859 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
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Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France?
Can we now safely assume the correct nswer is SOCIALISM?
_________________ Short, do you ever wonder why they took your stapler and assigned you the desk next to the boiler?
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Tanada
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:55 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 4976 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
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pstarr wrote: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France?
Can we now safely assume the correct nswer is SOCIALISM? I think in this case it is, the electricity industry is government owned and operated. Isn't that the definition of Socialism?
_________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
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Aaron
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:13 am |
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| 800 lb Gorilla |
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6758 Location: Houston
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Tanada wrote: Aaron wrote: Quote: The French State still owns 79% of Areva – the company supplying the Finnish reactor,which also operates the French reprocessing plant at La Hague. Having unnecessarily givenlarge contracts to Areva over past years to reprocess its spent fuel, EdF has accumulated over80 tons of plutonium, and vast quantities of nuclear waste at the reprocessing plant at LaHague. So it is now confronted with huge liabilities, but insufficient funds to cover them.The Court of Accounts estimated France’s nuclear liabilities at Eur 71-billion, with Eur 48-billion of that belonging to EdF. There are also huge uncertainties attached to these liabilities.For example, the cost of a potential deep disposal facility for nuclear waste could be between40% and 230% higher than allowed for by EdF, according to radioactive waste managementagency Andra. (35). It appears, therefore, that EdF currently plans to fund only around half ofFrance’s nuclear liabilities.
Nuclear power is a failed technology which has failed to deliver. It has squanderedunparalleled, unstinting support from taxpayers around the globe leaving them with burdensthat may last for millennia. The idea that such an industry should be resuscitated with orwithout even more public subsidy is absurd. http://www.no2nuclearpower.org.uk/reports/Nuclear_Subsidies.pdf  That's just funny given that Edf turns a large profit every year selling electricity and that money is turned in to the French General Fund to be spent on other government expenditures. Sure it does... With taxpayer funding you always "turn a profit".
_________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts
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Arthur75
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:40 pm |
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| Heavy Crude |
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:10 am Posts: 132 Location: Paris, France
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pstarr wrote: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France?
Can we now safely assume the correct nswer is SOCIALISM? I'm not sure you can really call that Socialism ... First of all a lot of these big "national enterprises" , EDF for electricity , SNCF for rail date back from right after WWII or just before for SNCF, France Telecom (ex PTT) even before, and are all related somehow to "infrastructures". And since the war, there as not been any "socialist labeled" government before 1981 and Mitterrand's election, it was either "Gaullist" in power or "center right" Now it is true that there is a strong "services publics" tradition associated to the "corps de l'Etat" and major engineering (and administration) schools as stated above. But this tradition is somehow down for quite some time already, the Anglo Saxon "liberalism" (European meaning) having taken its toll on this glorious devoted nationalist spirit ... And in concrete terms, all these markets are being liberalized these days (EDF has been splited between the network and producers part, same for SNCF (network and trains operators), telecoms deregulated like for AT&T at about same time, etc) To tell the truth I'm not sure the big "no government everything private" dogma means much when you talk about infrstructures ... And for instance, whereas in France and other European countries many freeways are privately operated (with tolls), the US highways infrastructure is what ? A socialist shithole ? Aren't the US, with their ridiculous 10% tax level on fossile fuels compared to a 60 or 70 european levels, a bit retarded ? What was exactly AT&T before the deregulation ? Is AT&T eating most of what was deregulated right now or not ? As to EDF, the CEA, or Areva making or not a profit, yes they do (maybe not for the CEA)
Last edited by Arthur75 on Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Plantagenet
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:00 pm |
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 8340 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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pstarr wrote: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France?
Can we now safely assume the correct answer is SOCIALISM? That is probably part of it. When the nukes are a national enterprise and government controlled, it appears to shut up some of the looney luddites on the left who instinctively oppose anything that a private corporation does. I'll bet in the US, if Obama was to propose a major nuclear government program as part of his energy plan----a US nuclear program where the government owns and operates the nukes rather then local utilities---- the left and the media wouldn't make a peep of opposition.  Would friendly socialist nukes silence the anti-nuclear mob in the US?
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pstarr
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:09 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 9859 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
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Plantagenet wrote: pstarr wrote: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France?
Can we now safely assume the correct answer is SOCIALISM? That is probably part of it. When the nukes are a national enterprise and government controlled, it appears to shut up some of the looney luddites on the left who instinctively oppose anything that a private corporation does. So we must move toward a socialistic state to get anything done then. I thought so. Plantagenet wrote: I'll bet in the US, if Obama was to propose a major nuclear government program as part of his energy plan----a US nuclear program where the government owns and operates the nukes rather then local utilities---- the left and the media wouldn't make a peep of opposition. You have short memory or you are an infant. The anti-nuke movement started under Democrats and was strongest during the Carter administration. Plant anyway you spin it, one must conclude that you are a knee-jerk Republican reactionary who would rather shoot yourself in your foot (and/or other neural ganglians) than think for yourself. Is the Republican womb still soft? Or is it just getting a bit slimy.
_________________ Short, do you ever wonder why they took your stapler and assigned you the desk next to the boiler?
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Plantagenet
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:17 pm |
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 8340 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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Wise up Pstarr. The left and the US media are different then they were back decades ago when you were young. The left and the US media used to be anti-war and anti-nuke back in the late 20th century...........but they sold out their morality and their principles to the democratic party. Now the anti-war left and media are completely silent and impotent as Obama pledges to keep 30-50,000 troops in Iraq after the 2011 deadline that Bush set up, and silent as Obama and the democratic congress surges US troops into Afghanistan and expands the US role in the war in Pakistan. Its highly likely the anti-nuke and media would be equally silent and impotent if Obama supported nukes because these sleazebags have all sold out to the dems. 
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HeckuvaJob
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:21 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 320 Location: Pittsburgh
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Is it because our lobbyists have passports?
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Plantagenet
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Post subject: Re: Why is nuclear power so successful and popular in France? Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:02 pm |
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:00 am Posts: 8340 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
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HeckuvaJob wrote: Is it because our lobbyists have passports? They need passports to travel to Switzerland to deposit money in the legislator's secret bank accounts-----apparently the "dealmaking" is intense on Obama's new 'cap and tax" energy bill.........mega government handouts in the form of free energy tax credits are going to the big financial institutions and banks doing the carbon trading, with mega-taxes being levied on the average guy to pay for it all. 
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