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View unanswered posts | View active topics
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joewp
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Post subject: Those who have called a peak in oil production. Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:09 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 1770 Location: Out in the streets of a runaway american dream
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This is a list of those people in and around the oil industry who have called a peak.
1) Dr. M. King Hubbert (petroleum geologist) - 1976 in this video
2) Professor Kenneth S. Deffeyes (petroleum geologist) - February 11, 2006
3) Dr Ali Samsam Bakhtiari (National Iranian Oil Company - consultant, chemical engineer) - July 10, 2006
4) Matt Simmons (energy industry investment banker) - February 1, 2007
5) T. Boone Pickens (former wildcat driller; energy hedge fund manager) - March 1, 2007
6) Jim Buckee (CEO - Talisman Inc oil company) - May 10, 2007
Are they right? Can we expect this list to get longer and longer as time goes on? Or are they jumping the gun?
Was Ken Deffeyes right when he said "Instead of being prophets, we are now historians" in The End of Suburbia?
When someone mentions a name please include a link so I can update the list above, thanks.
_________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Last edited by joewp on Fri May 11, 2007 8:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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seahorse2
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:18 pm |
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2056
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What I find interesting is we have knowledgeable people saying "we are at peak" or have passed peak. Is there any precedent for this? I know people have predicted peak in the past, like Campbell etc, but have so many people gone out and said we are at peak?
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Cobra_Strike
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:08 pm |
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| Intermediate Crude |
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:00 am Posts: 508 Location: Pacific Northwest
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There is a lot of jumping the shark here....production will have needed to fall throughout the summer season for any real indication. Even then, things are going to be bumpy even if there is not a peak...because right now production seems tight...Just wait, not much other option.
_________________ We stand here, as the light of other days surrounds us.
"Hail the Dead"
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joewp
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:07 pm |
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 1770 Location: Out in the streets of a runaway american dream
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I don't think there's ever been a time when people ever went out on a limb and called a peak like we're seeing now. I wasn't paying attention back then but I don't think many people were saying the US peaked until the late 1970s, almost a decade after the fact.
Cobra_Strike is right, it might be too early, but if Saudi Arabia can't bring production back up this spring (and soon) to 9.6mb/d, we probably have reached some kind of peak, either an foothill peak or the big one. KSA announced their "capacity" went up to 10.7mb/d just today, but they haven't pumped within 500,000 b/d of their stated "capacity" for a few years now.
Hang on, gentlemen, we'll know it's over when Mike Lynch is added to this list. 
_________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
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DantesPeak
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:55 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6050 Location: New Jersey
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Yes, this is the first time that some type of Peak Oil consensus is developing.
Part of the irrational CERA oil theory is that oil production must rise because, they sometimes kindly note, one or more prior Peak Oilers was wrong about when the peak would occur.
If all of these folks are wrong now, the discussion of PO will be dead and buried until we start burning the furniture for heat inside those McMansions.
_________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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JMB
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 10
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Donât forget Hubbert. I would call it the Hubbert-Deffeyes prediction. Remember, Deffeyes took over where Hubbert left off, and fine-tuned his prediction based on more complete data. And donât leave out Jeffrey Johnson, Ron Patterson, and Khebab over at TOD, and theyâve done some fine work. Theyâve also called the peak and deserve mention. BTW, James Kunstler is also being vindicated right about now.
Cobra wrote: â....production will have needed to fall throughout the summer season for any real indication.â I donât agreeâŠat all. Look back at Deffeyesâ prediction of Feb 11, 2006. What exactly did he predict? Feb 11 wasnât a prediction, it was a confirmation. He noted that world cumulative production reached 50% (50% Qt) on December 16, 2005, and that, he said, is the peak date of world oil production on the logistic curve. There are two âcurvesâ here -- the bell shaped logistic curve -- and the graph made by production data. We shouldnât confuse them. Deffeyesâ prediction is only for the log curve. He didnât say much about actual monthly production data. Only that the production data will closely, (or roughly,
depending on how closely you look at it) follow the smooth bell-curve. Remember, this bell-curve extends out over about 200 years. Production ups and downs about right now donât mean a whole lot, and a slight uptrend would not disprove Deffeyesâ prediction. I canât presume to speak for Deffeyes of course but I think that summarizes his prediction, and stand to be corrected if Iâm proved wrong.
IMO, equal weight canât be given to all the oil âgurusâ, including ASPO. Hubbert was uncommonly astute. If it wasnât for Hubbert we would not likely even be discussing the things we are now. We might, about now be asking -- whatâs up with this oil? Think somethingâs happening?
Are we at peak? There is no doubt. Zero. The Hubbert-Deffeyes case is way too solid. December 16, 2005 was the peak. (Once again⊠thatâs on the smooth curveâŠnot on monthly production figures)
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NEOPO
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:22 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 4140 Location: THE MATRIX
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Is this when all the white people circle their wagons
Peak Oil Projections
For those about to call a peak - we sa-lute you!!
50 years ago at 10-15 mbpd - that would have been a tough call.
I am sure it is not very popular declaring something of this nature and it must require some bravery thus hat's off to them all but most definately hats off to Mr. Hubbert with his world peak of 1995 or was it 1999? close enough for Peak Oil and handgrenades!!!
Of course what JMB is talking about is something like this:
hubberts math
They call that "creaming" the curve correct?
_________________ It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
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TheDude
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:17 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 4259 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
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Cobra_Strike wrote: There is a lot of jumping the shark here...
Jumping the Shark. In case someone is/will be confused. There's a steep learning curve in these forums!
Damn it, I spent 10 minutes searching for past topics on this before realizing it was being covered as I typed. Spooky. What is the overall concensus among the experts? Are there heavyweight thinkers in the industry who contest Hubbert-Deffeyes? How many respected/peer-reviewed analysts are there total?
This is among the first things a layman would want to now, after all. Figures along the lines of the GW concensus.
_________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi You think veer kidding und making mit de funny stuff?
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pstarr
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:49 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 9070 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
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You really need to add Stuart Staniford to this list. See his work today at The Oil Drum. Link: The Oil Drum on SA decline
I know Stuart very well and respect his work, background, and person. Stuart has two PhD's (though not in geology, rather mathematics and physics), works as a security-systems programmer. He is very in touch with sustainability and conservation and was a co-developer of our Cohousing community. Stuart has been modeling oil production and decline at the Oil Drum for several years and is an important editor and analyst there.
Stuart wrote: Overall, I feel this data is clear enough that I'm willing to go out on a limb and conclude the following:
* Saudi Arabian oil production is now in decline. * The decline rate during the first year is very high (8%), akin to decline rates in other places developed with modern horizontal drilling techniques such as the North Sea. * Declines are rather unlikely to be arrested, and may well accelerate. * Matt Simmons appears to be right in Twilight in the Desert, but the warning did not come until after declines had actually begun.
I suggest that this is likely to place severe political strains on Saudi Arabia within a year or two at most.
I also looked at the question of whether there is any evidence for the idea claimed by OPEC that the Saudi's deliberately cut production starting in November. After deliberate numerical analysis Stuarts concludes the Saudias did not and so are in decline. As goes SA so goes the world.
_________________ yesplease wrote: "Odds are economic growth will start to even out as population reaches it's top of ~10+ trillion"
yesplease wrote: "What we're seeing, adding about a billion people every thirteen years or so, is linear population growth."
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dohboi
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:34 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:00 am Posts: 2026
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And now add the GAO to the list! Along with "the largest number of [experts]"! This is looking pretty real.
Washington (Platts)--28Feb2007
A draft US Government Accountability Office report finds that, though it
is difficult to assess whether the world has reached "peak oil," a large
number of experts surveyed for the report believe the world may have reached
the peak for conventional petroleum supplies, said Representative Roscoe
Bartlett, Republican-Maryland.
Bartlett, who has raised concerns that the world has produced more oil
than remains in reserves, ordered the report from GAO -- the nonpartisan
investigative arm of Congress -- and will release it within the next month.
He said the report authors did not get a fix on how much oil is left in
the world because principal oil suppliers would offer no information about how
much oil they have left.
"They have no reason to tell us and little reason to be truthful,"
Bartlett said, so it is "very difficult to determine a date specific" when the
world will reach peak oil.
But he added that the GAO report found that "the largest number of
[experts] believe that it has occurred, that conventional supplies have
peaked."
Jim Wells, director of the natural and resources and environment division
at GAO, told the House Energy and Water Development Appropriations
Subcommittee at a hearing Wednesday that the report includes a recommendation
related to the lack of reliable data on world oil supplies. Wells also said
the report provides "an extensive look at ... the academic and scientific
community and all the various studies that have been done, and has calculated
a consensus on where they think peak oil is in our future."
Wells refused to provide more details on the report because he said
Bartlett has 30 days by law to do so before GAO can publish the results.[b]
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jeezlouise
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:46 pm |
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:00 am Posts: 303
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pstarr wrote: You really need to add Stuart Staniford to this list. See his work today at The Oil Drum. Link: The Oil Drum on SA decline
I second that. I read that article yesterday... it's a landmark, for sure.
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TreebeardsUncle
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:17 pm |
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| Intermediate Crude |
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 662
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Hi.
So, how high are prices likely to rise how fast?
Thus this means that there will be no mini glut due to expected increases in production in the GoM, ME, Caspian region, off the west coast of Africa etc? Rather declines and increasing demand will exceed any production gains realized?
Perhaps it will go like this:
Year Maximum Average Effect
Gas Price in the US
2007 $2.90 whining
2008 $3.20 surprise and whining
2009 $3.50 whining from city
governmentsabout the high price
of asphalt
2010 $3.80 Ford sales decline more.
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MonteQuest
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:01 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 15155 Location: Sedona, Arizona
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TreebeardsUncle wrote: Hi. So, how high are prices likely to rise how fast?
Depends on how the market reacts. I see it as quite likely that prices will spike if the markets get a solid confirmation on the peak.
The sky is the limit.
_________________ A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
Live in Arizona? Check out: http://sustainablearizona.org and read my blog.
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sch_peakoiler
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:21 am |
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Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:00 am Posts: 555
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seahorse2 wrote: What I find interesting is we have knowledgeable people saying "we are at peak" or have passed peak. Is there any precedent for this? I know people have predicted peak in the past, like Campbell etc, but have so many people gone out and said we are at peak?
Pickens have claimed peak 4 times  He is onto making a new record - 10 wrong claims in a row. Which prize would he get for that???? An Oscar of the False Prohet?
_________________ There is no knowledge that is not power.
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DantesPeak
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Post subject: Re: Those who have called a peak Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:06 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 6050 Location: New Jersey
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sch_peakoiler wrote: seahorse2 wrote: What I find interesting is we have knowledgeable people saying "we are at peak" or have passed peak. Is there any precedent for this? I know people have predicted peak in the past, like Campbell etc, but have so many people gone out and said we are at peak? Pickens have claimed peak 4 times  He is onto making a new record - 10 wrong claims in a row. Which prize would he get for that???? An Oscar of the False Prohet? We have covered the credibilty of Pickens in great detail before http://www.peakoil.com/post279582.html#279582http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic24296.htmlYour comments are unrelated to this topic, so why bring this up again here? I'll make this challenge again, for the tenth time, but so far no one has responded - If you have a better prediction record, or know of someone who does, please tell us, because I for one truly want to know. Otherwise, your comments belong on a Pickens debunked thread. Edit to add: From the Wall Street Journal energy blog: Quote: CERA past predictions cannot hold a candle to T. Boone Pickens. Why not publish a story on Daniel Yerginâs horrible past record? They have recently climbed down from their rosy outlook and will continue to adjust their numbers as reality sets in.
Comment by Robert Baertsch - March 3, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Having done business with Boone way back in his Mesa Petroleum days, there is one thing I never do. That is bet against him. If he says oil has peaked, Iâd better go shopping for that electric car.
Comment by muke sandifer - March 3, 2007 at 7:33 am
WSJ Energy Blog
_________________ It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
Last edited by DantesPeak on Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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