Short's argument thread

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

I mean what are the odds:

# Buffett Joins Goldman in Bid for Fannie Mae Tax Credits - [2009-11-04]

Geithner's Reply: "How many do you want and I'll leave a blank space for how much you'll charge us. OK?"

# Absolute Perfection: Goldman Loses Money On Just One Trading Day In Q3 - [2009-11-04]

rangerone314 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:55 am

Do you include George W Bush as one of the PTB? Real rocket scientist there?

If you got enough money and connections, getting into Harvard is not that hard.

I wonder if money and connections might have something to do with being one of the PTB? How about the Kennedy's?

There is a reason why there is something called the "Good ol' boy network".

Curiously a lot of driven people with high SAT's don't end up as the PTB. Something to do with either not being part of the GOBN or being willing to sell your soul to Satan. (Like Prescott Bush dealing with the Nazis)

I find it interesting that conservatives fear the "irrational" mob rule of direct democracy (as opposed to corporate-financed representative government), but don't hesitate to back the concept of a pure market capitalist economic system essentially directed by the "rational" day-to-day economic decisions of the same "mob" they fear.

I find it interesting that liberals value freedom and individual liberty as long as the state has the maximum monitoring and control over the exercise of that freedom.

American conservatism and liberalism are both sides of the same tarnished coin that needs to be tossed into a sewer.

Harvard trained lawyers are so far removed from reality and have their heads stuck so far up their @$$3$ that they can't see straight. How else to justify arguing that prosecutors who falsify evidence should be immune from prosecution? How about this "wonderful" decision by those black-robed Sith Lords?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Quote:

Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005)[1] was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States involving the use of eminent domain to transfer land from one private owner to another to further economic development. The case arose from the condemnation by New London, Connecticut, of privately owned real property so that it could be used as part of a comprehensive redevelopment plan. The Court held in a 5–4 decision that the general benefits a community enjoyed from economic growth qualified such redevelopment plans as a permissible "public use" under the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment.

The decision was widely criticized.[2] Many of the public viewed the outcome as a gross violation of property rights and as a misinterpretation of the Fifth Amendment, the consequence of which would be to benefit large corporations at the expense of individual homeowners and local communities.

The Supreme Court along with the rest of the PTB only gives a rat's @$$ about giving the powerful more power and ensuring individual citizens have as little legal recourse to challenge injustice as possible.

That's all right. There is legal recourse, such as it is.

Then there is other recourse, for when you aren't provided legal recourse.

I'm not jealous of TPTB any more than I'm jealous of LA's serial killer/rapist John Floyd Thomas Jr for having been with more women than me. There are a lot of members in TPTB who deserve the same fate that he is destined for:

Attachment:

JohnFloydThomasJr.jpg [ 44.2 KiB | Viewed 124 times ]

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

Ok. Whoever's in charge we need a new post to discuss shorty's
last post.

"TPTB got that way thru honest hard work."

Behind every great fortune there is a crime. Honore de Balzac

We can start with Gates. When I saw Gates take 60 Minutes/Charlie Rose to McD's for his interview-that said it all: link

You cannot load a Win 7 w/o buying a new computer. Wonder why viruses attack Windows and Not MACS? MSFT hardwires backdoors into all it's software. And on and on.

Next:

Quote:

Its a jealousy thing.

I got that yesterday at another site. No. It's not jealousy. It's criminals with a free pass while the Bottom 95% get an extra helping of Expletive deleted. You from the exasperated Law Enforcement.

Criminalization of the poor. You think that the Greatest Wealth Disparity in the History of the World is an accident?

I'll stop there for now. But feel free to keep comin' cause I got an arsenal ful o' whoop ass on TPTB. :twisted:

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

Hold it. I can't let this pass:

Quote:

Have you ever worked with a Harvard trained lawyer? Do you realize that most of the Supreme Court are Harvard trained lawyers as well? Its just the natural sorting which takes place in the natural world.

Only when the Lion learns to write will the Hunter no longer be a hero. African Proverb they probably don't teach at Harvard.

Historical Revisionism is a wonderful thing. I wonder how Summers-yes the same Expletive deleted. that sent the "Harvard Boys" (a Term of disdain in Russia today btw) to Moscow to "help out" the Berezovsky/Khodorkovskys with their plans to steal Yukos among other things then give them (a LOT of HARD WORK there) to XOM (Exactly when the US stopped being pals with Putin;}- will be remembered as Head Honcho at Harvard:

You, Shorty, agree with Summers that Women are inherently unable to understand the basics of Math? LMFAO

rangerone314 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:19 am

mcgowanjm wrote:

Hold it. I can't let this pass:

Quote:

Have you ever worked with a Harvard trained lawyer? Do you realize that most of the Supreme Court are Harvard trained lawyers as well? Its just the natural sorting which takes place in the natural world.

Only when the Lion learns to write will the Hunter no longer be a hero. African Proverb they probably don't teach at Harvard.
Historical Revisionism is a wonderful thing. I wonder how Summers-yes the same Expletive deleted. that sent the "Harvard Boys" (a Term of disdain in Russia today btw) to Moscow to "help out" the Berezovsky/Khodorkovskys with their plans to steal Yukos among other things then give them (a LOT of HARD WORK there) to XOM (Exactly when the US stopped being pals with Putin;}- will be remembered as Head Honcho at Harvard:
You, Shorty, agree with Summers that Women are inherently unable to understand the basics of Math? LMFAO

Ironic statement, considering my wife graduated this year with a 3.96 GPA (including taking analytical chemistry, statistics, calculus, physics). My wife wouldn't pee on some @$$h@t like Larry Summers if he were on fire.

The world needs fewer Harvard Lawyers and more John Browns.

Quote:

"John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave,
His soul's marching on."

is what Union soldiers sang on march.

I don't think the next civil war will have soldier's singing about Harvard-educated lawyer's money marching on."

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

And the SCOTUS!?!? The same one that decided in 12122000 that bush43's Civil Suit was more important than the Greatest Function of Democracy in the US? That State's Rights can only go so far until TPTB get hurt.

Scalia (no precedent here, keep moving) The Eyes of the Law: Justice Scalia's Harvard Homecoming :

THE Criminal. And Harvard embraces him. That says it all. Scum. All the Way.

Rehnquist was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He received M.A. degrees in political science from both Stanford and Harvard and graduated from the Stanford Law ... link

The young Rehnquist began his legal career as a Republican functionary by obstructing African-American and Hispanic voting at Phoenix polling locations (“Operation Eagle Eye”)

Chief Justice William Rehnquist set back liberty, equality, and human rights perhaps more than any American judge of this generation. So much for the Harvard Church of Methodists being a model of Sweet Baby Jeebus.

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

Quote:

Ironic statement, considering my wife graduated this year with a 3.96 GPA (including taking analytical chemistery, statistics, calculus, physics).

And my sincere congratulations to your wife, ranger. My first act as POTUS would be to replace Summers/Geithner (your wife would be able to MultiTask both I'm sure)...and hold on...this just in...

Summers and Geithner, Two Contenders for Treasury Job, Have Close ...
Nov 8, 2008 ... After leaving Treasury in 2001, he was president of Harvard University until 2006. (Bio.) [Geithner ] Getty Images ... online.wsj.com/article/SB122610208024210087.html - Cached - Similar -
2.
Geithner's Bank Plan Is a Good Start - Harvard - Belfer Center for ...
Apr 4, 2009

OMFG are all these asshats harvard alum?

And Harvard says G's Bank Plan a good start? :twisted:

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

I'm sorry (not really;} to belabor this point but this is just too good and to the point:

Quote:

Nov. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Barclays Plc Chief Executive Officer John Varley stood at the wooden lectern in St. Martin-in-the- Fields on London’s Trafalgar Square last night and told the packed pews of the church that “profit is not satanic.”

Guess where John learned his ethics.... :roll:

# # The biggest hitters in British banking - Telegraph Apr 23, 2007 ... John Varley, Barclays chief executive, is standing on the edge of what will ... The banker, who studied at Cambridge University and Harvard ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../The-bigg ... nking.html

I'm surprised John's hair didn't catch fire as he defended the Greatest Wealth Transfer in World History. They teach this at Harvard Seminary? The MoneyChangers Institute of Heaven Help Us:

Quote:

It is becoming increasingly likely that Barclays will have to pay a cool $5 billion (at least) in additional consideration to the Lehman estate, after the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors came out yesterday with a hefty joinder piece to the debtor's motion that Barclays materially misrepresented and, in essence, ****stole****(my edit;} $5 billion or more from under the noses of both Lehman Brothers Holdings and its Creditors, all as the megalomaniacal Judge Peck was trying to ram the largest prearranged stalking horse bankruptcy through, in the shortest (im)possible amount of time, just so he could print "Judge Peck - Greatest Restructuring Judge in the World" t-shirts at the Bowling Green sweat shop just off NY Southern Bankruptcy court. As it often happens, the exposure of this alleged fraud was just a matter of time, and it would appear that Bob Diamond who was counting on a meek opposing creditor committee, and complicit debtor (which he got for a good 12 months, courtesy of a toothless Official Creditor Committee ) is about to pay through the nose for what he thought at the time was the greatest rip off since Bear Stearns.

A filing by the OCC provides a very good summary of the five purported axes of scammery that the Barclays' pickpockets were hoping to effectuate under the "End is Nigh" guise of systemic collapse, and the need for a quick transaction closing, no matter what the cost to Lehman:

* Implied $5 Billion Discount. Unbeknownst to the Court or the Committee, early in the negotiations, Barclays and the Lehman Sellers agreed to give Barclays a $5 billion discount from the transferred assets' book value. Indeed, evidence suggests the $70 billion figure contained in the Asset Purchase Agreement ("APA") was not the value on the Lehman Sellers' books at all. Instead, it was a "negotiated" number with an embedded $5 billion discount. This discount was not disclosed in any of the transaction documents given to the Court.

~Denninger

A LOT of HARd WORK there [smilie=5squeeze.gif]

mos6507 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:58 am

TonyPrep wrote:

Pops wrote:

TonyPrep wrote:

Here are a few graphs that you might want to look at.

Man, that is a Doomer chart if I've ever seen one. I couldn't figure out how to find the story?

There were a series of articles in a special edition of New Scientist, last year. It wasn't behind a firewall then but is now, unfortunately. However, here is the link.Edit: I found the introductory article posted here

Wow, I'm adding that to my top-10 list of doom materials in my scrapbook, right up there with Incredible Journey of Crude and Earth 2100. Great!

mos6507 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:02 am

rangerone314 wrote:

American conservatism and liberalism are both sides of the same tarnished coin that needs to be tossed into a sewer.

To be replaced by what? Which -ism do you think is flawless, because I have yet to discover one. It's easy to bash. Not easy to provide solutions.

mcgowanjm · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 540

Please excuse me but it looks like Shorty has unexpectedly
exposed TPTB Mafia/RICO HQ- HARVARD:

In the post above:

# Judge James M. Peck. Judge Peck explains how he prepared to hear the Lehman .... Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. A version of this article was given ... isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic150416.files/judgesjournal.pdf - Similar - # Judge
<p>
"Well, first I beat up my wife. That got me primed for what I'd
be doing to Lehman."

Judge in Lehman Case Charged After Domestic Incident - Law Blog - WSJ
Feb 2, 2009 ... Bankruptcy Judge James M. Peck, the man overseeing the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, was arrested following a domestic incident with ...
blogs.wsj.com/.../judge-in-lehman-madoff-cases-charged-after-domestic-incident/ -

Quote:

It's easy to bash. Not easy to provide solutions.

The FIRST thing is get rid of ANYONE from Harvard. Send 'em
immediately to re education camps in Fly Over Country to do
mechanics/harvesting. I want to see some callouses before
release. [smilie=angryfire.gif]

rangerone314 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:13 am

mos6507 wrote:

rangerone314 wrote:

American conservatism and liberalism are both sides of the same tarnished coin that needs to be tossed into a sewer.

To be replaced by what? Which -ism do you think is flawless, because I have yet to discover one. It's easy to bash. Not easy to provide solutions.

Pragmat-ism?

How about a government that leans a lot more towards direct democracy and a lot less towards plutocratic representatives?

A new constitution that explicitly states that corporations do not have personhood, and that property rights are not to be seized from individual landowners for corporate development. Maybe one that explicitly states that money is not speech (any more than my fart is "speech" if I fart in the direction of a politician I don't like)

Maybe a constitution that recognizes the importance of not allowing the "free press" to be owned by a handful of people who can buy or sell influence.

End political parties, vote on candidates.

I also came up with a mathematical model on how to structure Presidential elections (sort of a tournament-elimination type voting system) which would entail minimal initial commitment of money by a candidate. (You might campaign against 4 other individuals - no national parties - among a population of 4,000 voters in Round 1)
Victors going to Round 2 would get public financing and compete among a larger pool of voters, until you get to the national level, where you have maybe 8 national candidates, all of whom are getting public financing.

The exactly math model I figured out once and can obviously be tinkered with to be more optimal. I'm sure the best mix (# of rounds, size of voters & # of candidates competing for a voting area in a round, $ of public financing at each level) could be figured out.

I think it was something like this I had worked out:
People.......Districts..Candidates.........$ Per Candidate........Total
200000000.......1...........8...................40,000,000......320,000,000...(national)
25000000.........8.........64.....................4,000,000......256,000,000...(regional)
3125000...........8.......512........................400,000......204,800,000...(super-district)
390625.............8.....4096..........................40,000......163,840,000...(district)
48828..............8....32768............................4,000......131,072,000...(area)
6103................8..262144...................................0.............................(precinct)

Total public finance for Presidential Campaign: $1,075,712,000 (On par for total spending for 2008)

I suppose one would come up with 262,144 initial candidates via something like petitions. Take the top 8 candidates in each precinct that has 6,000 people. The winner out of those 8 then gets $4,000 in public finance to run against 8 other people in a district with 48,000 people.

It is not that hard to come up with solutions. I could probably walk across a minefield, have a Bouncing-Betty pop up and explode near my face, and still have enough gray matter left to come up with a better system.

TonyPrep · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:04 pm

shortonsense wrote:

TonyPrep wrote:

shortonsense wrote:

rangerone314 wrote:

if you use his GDP measures, the economy of the US was effectively contracting the entire time since like 2000.

No. It has the economy growing slightly in 2004.

If that. The rest of the time, obviously it has been the great Depression. Just consider how everyone around here has been coming unglued, Great Depression II!! and such nonsense.

Arguing from incredulity doesn't work, SOS. You need to show why the methods used to calculate the shadow number are wrong. Check the page discussing how GDP figures are arrived at.

yesplease · **Joined:** Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:00 am **Posts:** 3655

mos6507 wrote:

yesplease wrote:

I never said someone should only focus on OECD. I said that eco-fascism is characterized by only focusing on population growth

I don't think any doomers only focus on population growth. I think YOU characterize anybody who focuses on population growth as only focusing on population growth.

First off, stop quote sniping. It's not just about focusing only or primarily on population growth, it's about using that as justification for some opinion w/ a fascist slant.

mos6507 wrote:

In other words, the second anyone invokes the name of Malthus, out comes the "we consume too much" card. Of course we consume too much, but that is not a free pass for anyone to go Octomom.

No, the second anyone invokes the Malthus card and uses it to justify an opinion w/ a fascist slant, or even the we consume too much card (although that isn't as commmon AFAIK) w/ the same fascist slant, they're an eco-fascist. I suppose someone who only focuses on population or consumption w/o any fascist opinions could be considering myopic, but regardless of how much you want to cut up my comments when quoting me, they still need to endorse something w/ a fascist slant.

mos6507 wrote:

This is the mainstream view, btw, towards anyone who mentions population. It's the ultimate taboo, even worse than powerdown, to dare raise an indignant finger at someone for daring to reproduce too much. Branding those who raise alarm about population as misanthropes is standard operating procedure, as it is towards anyone who proposes an abandonment of the overall growth paradigm, and this avoidance of limits to growth will be our undoing in the end.

Haven't we been over this before? We have countries where birth control is available but clean water isn't. Addressing population growth is mainstream, as is addressing consumption, although they aren't common because most people aren't interested. That said, excessive consumption is still the largest driver.

Quote:

He found that sub-Saharan Africa had 18.5 per cent of the world’s population growth and only 2.4 per cent of the growth in carbon dioxide emissions. The United States had 3.4 per cent of the world’s population growth but 12.6 per cent of the growth in carbon dioxide emissions.

mos6507 wrote:

So we should all aspire to be a country of 30,000,000,000 people eating mud cakes on a deforested landscape? Yep, Haiti is a real role model in austerity alright. Where do I sign up?

No, we shouldn't aspire to be like one of the most corrupt countries in the world, but in terms of the per capita footprint it's a damn sight better than America w/ 100+ time greater energy consumption per capita in terms of the footprint per person. It's not like each nation is an isolated planet. Carrying capacity for people is effectively global due to communications/transport.

mos6507 wrote:

They aren't within their footprint, which is why they're now eating mud cakes.

That must be it mos! Shoot, the UK is even farther outside of their footprint, and they're eating twice as many mud cakes! Or not...

Besides, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with Haiti being one of the most corrupt countries in the world...

C'mon man, are you actually researching before you post or are you just being reactive?

mos6507 wrote:

I think those of us worried about overshoot are very clear about what we're worried about. And you can read through the archives to see threads where we wrack our brains trying to figure out what the post-peak (and post climate change) carrying capacity is going to be. We don't really know, but the general agreement is it's not going to be closer to a billion than 10 billion, regardless of how much we powerdown.

I think that most people on this forum would be better off trying to wrack their brains getting a (decent) degree, or at least taking the basics in terms of a college education, before anything else given the forum content. Even then, Peter supposedly has a masters in something systems related, but he's still running around endorsing BS marketing and making plenty of other statements w/ what appears to be little though/research, although that's probably more his penchant for theatrics getting in the way of taking the time to research/make reasonable statements, at least I hope it is.

Anyway, I've seen little or no decent justification for most of what's posted on these forums. You, along w/ a few other posters (I ccan count 'em on two hands), seem to relatively reasonable, at least trying to provide a counter-point to the psychological side, and even then AFAIK you won't go beyond expounding on your beliefs besides stating they're hunches. People can't just close their eyes and make whatever they believe so. Well, they can think they do, but that's a bit cultish.

shortonsense · **Joined:** Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 2089

rangerone314 wrote:

Harvard trained lawyers are so far removed from reality and have their heads stuck so far up their @$$3$ that they can't see straight.

I asked once already, I shall ask again. Have you ever actually worked with one? While perhaps wonkish, they also tend to be incredibly intelligent, with the disadvantage of the occasionally accompanying ignorance of certitude.

Short's argument thread

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