We didn't have food rationing in the US even during WWII. Now I'm reading stories of various restrictions on rice and staples in various US discount stores, though there was a food scare during WWI. When the public, should these trends continue, puts it all together with fuel prices and financial crisis, they will all begin to realize that something bad is going on. The word of mouth buzz will spread and panic won't be too far away at that point. My guess is that the wheat fungus problem and the spread of anti-biotic resistant bugs will tip the public over the edge.

That's what I'm looking for, a sense if any can report it what public opinion is.

Yes we did. All the old people around here talk about the ration coupons for food and gas and people going around collecting metals. Famously, one rich Arlingtonian lady turned in her german luxury limo and wanted it returned to germany as a bomb.

Anyway there's lots of stuff on the intertube about it too

http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/ex ... ioning.htm

I work with a lot of people who are not particularly intellegent, and there is a lot of chatter about impending doom. How will they respond if/when things continue on the same path of food/resource rationing (by price or otherwise)?

I think they will mostly get in line and do what they are suppose to do. A few will try to break into the black market, with varying degrees of success.

They will keep their head down and do what the good looking man or woman on the television tells them to do.

Oh I didnt say they were making ethanol with it. Neither they were making a compost or somekinda forage for pigs or something. They were BURNING it, just to burn it. millions and millions of 60kg sacks.

Argentina is bound by debt, Canada is an additive anyway, Australia is a "dear friend', and Brazil... Brazil got no grains. And who is ets outthere--? Ukraine ends up buying grains herself every now and then, Russia is barely learned to feed itself recently, I guess due to the rapidly decreasing population. who else is there?

I couldn’t blame them a bit if they left the air headed, belligerent, arrogant American’s to rot in their once hydrocarbon impregnated fields. Let’s just hope that they have a little more empathy for their fellow man than what we have seen displayed here![/quote]

That is simple.
Their Tridents are getting obsolete and some upgrade is necessary.


It does not pay to launch few nukes against someone and end up glassified by US, Russia or Israel.


It would start anyway, maybe few weeks later at best.
Everyone knew that a big war is coming.
Existing world order became unbearable.

NY Times

--> Rice Drops to Two-Week Low in Chicago as Supply Concerns Ease <--

Liebigs law. Fortunately natural gas supplies can still be increased, for the moment.

However the costs are liable to remain high for a while yet.

For some time I've been thinking about the reaction of the public when they finally get wise. Here are some notes I've made over the past several years (some content edited):

7:23 AM 7/3/2004
before, during, after peak oil, it does not matter when, the phenomenon of hoarding can occur
nations can hoard oil, food, medicine, weapons, anything of value, utility, significance
silent hoarding is one thing, it is not noticed
when hoarding is noticed, the question of "what do they know that we don't" comes into play

so every nation on earth hoards oil
6 months supply would put a strain on any economy
a years supply ties up capital on a far reaching scale
with 142 countires, it only takes 1 country at a time hoarding oil to keep the prices inflated
hoard oil for a month, you are looking at 12 years of inflated prices

12:18 AM 8/31/2004, china seems to be hoarding oil
what is wrong with these chinamen?
do they only serve to screw shit up?
lets extend the thought
the US is hoarding oil to some degree, filling up the national emergency reserves
not a huge amount, but when supplies are tight, any extra demand serves to inflate prices
what if it catches on
companies begin to hoard oil, filling their storage tanks
the strain would be on the refineries and the pipelines, as companies typically work with refined product
customers hoard fuel
fill their vehicles
fill their lawn equipment/boats/spare cars/gas cans
buy extra gas cans, fill those up
maybe some storage tanks for a couple of hundred gallons
keeping everything topped off will see demand return to consumption levels
thats unless somewhere else spare tanks start clearing off the shelves

it makes perfect fiscal sense
if prices are projected to rise considerably in the time equal to the shelf life of the product, it is a bargain to buy now, use later
if a gas company can see the futures market 3 months out trading oil at 10% higher than current prices, they are going to buy what they can now at the current price
they will sell it off later to the consumer at the higher market price when the time comes, meanwhile avoiding new stocks

hoarding is seen with every hurricane
storm is on the way, people rush out to buy bottled water, batteries, lamps, candles, plywood, food
usually at the last minute
oil prices rise a bit, people take it with a grain of salt
they rise a little more, the sheep keep grazing
a little more, some people may start to have some extra fuel on hand, but most of the people are still sheep
a little more, some people are out buying extra tanks, walking unnoticed past the sheep
a little more, some people are stocking up on other essential items while the prices are low, not the sheep
a little more, some people are building shelters, not the sheep
a little more, some people are learning defense techniques, not the sheep
a little more, some people are learning to garden, not the sheep
a little more, some people are learning how to raise livestock, not the sheep
a little more, some people are taking first aid courses, not the sheep
a little more, some people are learning to be self sufficient, not the sheep
a little more, some people are learning to preserve food, not the sheep
a little more, some people are learning to use solar power, not the sheep
a little more, some people are buying land in the woods, not the sheep

when the price of fuel gets too high, what are the sheep going to say?
thats not fair that they have all that and I have nothing
the handwriting is on the wall
oil is going to go through the roof in the next 2-10 years
if you don't see it coming, you are a fool
is it fair that you should get some of my supplies because I saw the hazard and planned ahead?
go fuck yourself

once hoarding begins silently, nobody will know about it
you will have a small segment of society that is prepared for crisis
you will have a large segment of society that is unprepared
they dont even know what to hoard
as a crisis approaches, more people will begin to hoard
store shelves are sufficient to serve a population for a couple of weeks as best
produce is shorter than that
breads are for a couple of days
meat and dairy are pretty short, maybe a week to 10 days
canned goods last a long time but are not in high demand

a survivalist hoarder already has his goods on the shelf and locked down
a cautious hoarder will buy 1.5-2 times the needed supplies over a long period if they are planning ahead
stocks are unable to detect this spending and consumption rate
it will look like a big shopping day or someone shopping for a large family
a thinking hoarder will buy 2-5 times the needed supplies in several stores over a few months
a concerned hoarder will buy 5-10 times what they need, all of an item perhaps
this will be seen but will not impact the store as it will restock the item within a few days
several concerned hoarders will cause the store to stock more of that particular item over time
the problem arises with the desperate hoarder
this is the hoarder that uses every penny available to buy stuff they think they are supposed to have
bottled water
batteries
maybe a gun
canned food
candles
a camp stove with lots of fuel
this is the idiot
this is what sets off a panic
several desperate hoarders shopping at the same time and panic buying will begin
people come back from the store with bags of rice they dont know how to cook and say "this is what I got", then figure out what to do with it


-----------------------
1:45 AM 9/3/2004
Hurricane Francis
Walmart shelves empty after 2 days of panic buying
no gas south of Jacksonville
what a bunch of retards


---------------
4/8/2005
stuff to hoard
canning jars and lids
salt
sugar
cleaning supplies
HBA/medical supplies
matches
lighters
seed
food
water containers
yeast
coffee
creamer
butter
cooking oil
flour
baking soda
baking powder

put up 360 quarts of food
someone moves in, it now lasts 6 months
3 people, 4 months
4 people, 3 months
in 3 months, 4 people would be able to dig beds, get some food growing

goods with high calorie per unit volume is ideal to store
easy to prepare
long lasting

how you store your hoarded goods is as important as what you store

get the food out of the freezer and onto a shelf
minimize special container use where possible
butter can be canned
chicken thighs are cheap
beans can be dried, stored in milk jugs

I got an attic I can store all kinds of shit in

When to hoard
I'm going to spend the money at some point
spending it now, I get the goods now
I can't run out and buy loads of a single item at a time
I'll look stupid, catch attention
slowly gathering needed goods is the best way to go
also easier on the wallet
$100/week will go a long way towards accumulating a serious supply of goods
I need to take an inventory of what I have
establish objectives
prioritize


----------------
5:27 AM 4/25/2008
hoarding being seen in places around the world
shortages of rice, flour, butter, cooking oil
food riots in Haiti and around the world
food stampedes in China
Sam's and Costco limiting sales of bulk rice
food price increases over the last year 10-20%
WSj articles saying food prices will continue to rise

the signs are for
A: a fast crash, 400 miles/hour into a brick wall
B: an increment in a staggered crash
a slow crash does not look promising

it is a fine time to expand my food hoard
take inventory
fill in the gaps
expand staples
diversify
expand food production

----------------------
HIDING THE FOOD HOARD

just as important as gathering and properly storing the food, hiding it from everyone will be needed
purchases with credit/debit cards can be tracked, epecially with computer what they are today
purchases in the daytime can be seen easier
purchases of large volume at a time can be noticed
purchases from the same store or cashier can be noticed
the trash can be seen, what you throw away can tell people a lot
baggy clothing hides the fact you are eating well
what you take for lunch says a lot
coffee is out at the stores and you still have a thermos

stealth shopping is an aspect of purchasing that should be implemented
pay cash
shop in the evening/at night, and when stores are quiet
buy a little over several trips rather than a heap all at once
use different stores, different cashiers
destroy the packages that are discarded, compost or recycle where possible
store food away from windows
store food out of sight of guests

=========
Hurricane Katrina shows us an example of what people do when they are faced with an immediate problem. They look out for themselves. However, until the problem directly impacts them, its business as usual.

OK, here is a little good news: meat is cheap and so are freezers.

Tyson is losing money, Pilgrims Pride is cutting production, hog farmers are selling at $100/head or less when their costs are over $200, beef inputs are way up and the returns to producers aren't...

And that is while they are still feeding corn at last years price.

Unless Ethanol subsidies are abandoned, energy costs drop by half, the US$ stages a miraculous comeback and every feed crop everywhere in the world is a record setter, I'll wager you'll look back on these as The Good Old Days of Living High on the Hog.

Personally, I have a freezer full of meat...

It looks as if the Pale Horseman will be riding through North Korea again.

North Korea heading toward famine

Thanks for that reminder, Pops. Though we have a lot of "home grown" meat in the freezer, I probably need to add some store bought to the mix...
K

I think I would disagree (at this time) with this, KP. If there are few people in the store, the security cameras can spend more time focused on you.
It is still okay to buy big in the daytime-should anyone mention the quantity, or you get an opening, mention the 34 member family reunion that your family is throwing--this "reason" will even cover TP!

Remember those occasional commercials where the 8-10-12 year old child tells the neighborhood everything their parents say and do at home?

I suspect that when the crops start coming in, the food problem will be temporarily fixed. IMO, it will be later this year, when the shortages become more obvious, that the problems will start. I think there will be escalated home and store break-ins. Even then, it still won't be really bad because people will shift to other available food supplies.
The strain is already being noticed at food banks. With the increased layoffs and foreclosure problems, the local governments are feeling the loss of their tax base, and there's going to be nothing available for those who will clamor for aid.

Makes you wonder (well, makes ME wonder) how some of these countries keep rising from the ashes. And how many times they can do so.

Given the global changes (PO, et al), I would say some of them will not make it back again this time around.

Lumpy