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paimei01
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Post subject: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:28 am |
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:00 am Posts: 467 Location: Romania
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I have just read this book and I feel "enlightened"
My way of thinking was similar to what I found in the book, but Daniel Quinn knows how to explain it, so now I can see better, and formulate myself better
The book says that we are all enacting a story, and if we would stop if we would be given a different one to enact.
For this to happen we must be awake, most of us are not, and the ones who sleep are angry at anything that may wake them up. Or afraid of it. Like a drug addict
German people when Hitler rose to power, they were enacting their story.
Our myths tell us that this world was made for us to conquer and rule, and that is the story we are enacting. Belief in God or not, we do agree that we rule the world and it does not matter if all other species die, our survival is what matters
A quote :
Quote: But what would be the result? He would become a criminal, an outlaw, a thief of life, and a murderer of the creatures around him. Without the delusion that what he was doing was goodâand therefore to be done at any costâhe would soon weary of the outlawâs life. Indeed this is bound to happen during his quest for the Tree of Life. But if he should eat of the tree of our knowledge, then he will shrug off his weariness. He will say, âWhat does it matter that Iâm weary of living as a murderer of all the life around me? I know good and evil, and this way of living is good. Therefore I must live this way even though Iâm weary unto death, even though I destroy the world and even myself. The gods wrote in the world a law for all to follow, but it cannot apply to me because Iâm their equal. Therefore I will live outside this law and grow without limit. To be limited is evil. I will steal the fire of life from the hands of the gods and heap it up for my growth, and that will be good. I will destroy those kinds that do not serve my growth, and that will be good. I will wrest the garden from the hands of the gods and order it anew so that it serves only my growth, and that will be good. And because these things are good, they must be done at any cost. It may be that Iâll destroy the garden and make a ruin of it. It may be that my progeny will teem over the earth like locusts, stripping it bare, until they drown in their own filth and hate the very sight of one another and go mad. Still they must go on, because to grow without limit is good and to accept the limits of the law is evil. And if any say, âLetâs put off the burdens of the criminal life and live in the hands of the gods once again,â I will kill them, for what they say is evil. And if any say, âLetâs turn aside from our misery and search for that other tree,â I will kill them, for what they say is evil. And when at last all the garden has been subjugated to my use and all kinds that do not serve my growth have been cast aside and all the fire of life in the world flows through my progeny, still I must grow. And to the people of this land I will say, âGrow, for this is good,â and they will grow. And to the people of the next land I will say, âGrow, for this is good,â and they will grow. And when they can grow no more, the people of this land will fall upon the people of the next to murder them, so that they may grow still more. And if the groans of my progeny fill the air throughout the world, I will say to them, âYour sufferings must be borne, for you suffer in the cause of good. See how great we have become! Wielding the knowledge of good and evil, we have made ourselves the masters of the world, and the gods have no power over us. Though your groans fill the air, isnât it sweeter to live in our own hands than in the hands of the gods?
_________________ One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane! http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
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Novus
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:53 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 2078
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I read this book some time ago. It definitely helped me to free my mind from 'mother culture.'
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errorist
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:44 am |
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 114
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biofuel13
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:45 am |
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 606 Location: Chaska, MN
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Great book it's my all-time favorite. I've read it nearly a dozen times and my original copy has been passed around and read by almost 50 people now. Read it and pass it on to those around you!
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biofuel13
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:52 am |
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 606 Location: Chaska, MN
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paimei01--
Another great book that will help everyone cope with the coming collapse is "Beyond Civilization" also by Daniel Quinn. It promotes living a tribal lifestyle in which community members all work towards common goals. I highly recommend it and all of Quinn's books.
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Ludi
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:59 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 15976 Location: The Hourglass of Doom
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_________________ "maybe all the babyboomers should just be put to death" - rangerone314
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BigTex
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:01 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 3983 Location: Graceland
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How about this for a coincidence: I bought Ishmael at a bookstore last night.
It's a popular title around here, but the timing of this post and my purchase of the book feels pretty odd.
Obviously, I look forward to reading it.
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Ludi
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:04 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 15976 Location: The Hourglass of Doom
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I prefer "The Story of B" myself. 
_________________ "maybe all the babyboomers should just be put to death" - rangerone314
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Schadenfreude
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:35 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:00 am Posts: 585
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paimei01 wrote: I have just read this book and I feel "enlightened"
I read Ishmael way back in 1999, I think it was. I recall Quinn spent a few pages providing an entirely new interpretation of biblical Genesis and the parable of the Garden of Eden.
Now I can't remember it. Bur I remember feeling enlightened also when I read it. Perhaps I'll refresh my memory at the library.
_________________ Documentary: "Oil, Smoke & Mirrors"
Engineers Question 911
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Ludi
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:37 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 15976 Location: The Hourglass of Doom
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Some people seem to find reading the book an earth-shattering, life-changing experience; other people, it leaves them cold.
I was kind of neutral about it. "Hmm, ok."

_________________ "maybe all the babyboomers should just be put to death" - rangerone314
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biofuel13
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:47 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 12:00 am Posts: 606 Location: Chaska, MN
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BigTex wrote: How about this for a coincidence: I bought Ishmael at a bookstore last night.
It's a popular title around here, but the timing of this post and my purchase of the book feels pretty odd.
Obviously, I look forward to reading it.
Enjoy the read....and maybe start a thread to discuss the points in the book you find interesting.
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BigTex
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:15 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 3983 Location: Graceland
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Ludi wrote: Some people seem to find reading the book an earth-shattering, life-changing experience; other people, it leaves them cold. I was kind of neutral about it. "Hmm, ok." 
Ludi, what was the last earth shattering life changing experience you had?
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TheTurtle
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:18 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 12:00 am Posts: 1979 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
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Ludi wrote: I prefer "The Story of B" myself. 
I do also. Of the three books that tell essentially the same story, I like "The Story of B" and then "My Ishmael" and lastly "Ishmael".
_________________ âHumankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.â (Ted Perry)
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Ludi
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:25 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 am Posts: 15976 Location: The Hourglass of Doom
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BigTex wrote: Ludi, what was the last earth shattering life changing experience you had?
That's a really personal question.
I'm not sure I want to talk about it right now. Hope that's ok. 
_________________ "maybe all the babyboomers should just be put to death" - rangerone314
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BigTex
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Post subject: Re: "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:40 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:00 am Posts: 3983 Location: Graceland
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Ludi wrote: BigTex wrote: Ludi, what was the last earth shattering life changing experience you had?
That's a really personal question. I'm not sure I want to talk about it right now. Hope that's ok. 
Of course it's okay.
No problem.
[BigTex's mind wanders off in countless speculations regarding Ludi's experiences.]
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