British ambassador alledges CIA torture

Jotapay · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:06 pm

I'm speechless with rage. This is what the fake "War on Terror" has become. We need to have people's children tortured in front of them or boil them alive to extract a confession that they met with Osama Bin Ladin. link

Quote:

Former UK ambassador: CIA sent people to be ‘raped with broken bottles’

The CIA relied on intelligence based on torture in prisons in Uzbekistan, a place where widespread torture practices include raping suspects with broken bottles and boiling them alive, says a former British ambassador to the central Asian country.

Craig Murray, the rector of the University of Dundee in Scotland and until 2004 the UK's ambassador to Uzbekistan, said the CIA not only relied on confessions gleaned through extreme torture, it sent terror war suspects to Uzbekistan as part of its extraordinary rendition program.

"I'm talking of people being raped with broken bottles," he said at a lecture late last month that was re-broadcast by the Real News Network. "I'm talking of people having their children tortured in front of them until they sign a confession. I'm talking of people being boiled alive. And the intelligence from these torture sessions was being received by the CIA, and was being passed on."

Human rights groups have long been raising the alarm about the legal system in Uzbekistan. In 2007, Human Rights Watch declared that torture is "endemic" to the country's justice system.

Murray said he only realized after his stint as ambassador that the CIA was sending people to be tortured in Uzbekistan, country he describes as a "totalitarian" state that has never moved on from its communist era, when it was a part of the Soviet Union.
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Suspects in Uzbekistan's gulags "were being told to confess to membership in Al Qaeda. They were told to confess they'd been in training camps in Afghanistan. They were told to confess they had met Osama bin Laden in person. And the CIA intelligence constantly echoed these themes."

"I was absolutely stunned -- it changed my whole world view in an instant -- to be told that London knew [the intelligence] coming from torture, that it was not illegal because our legal advisers had decided that under the United Nations convention against torture, it is not illegal to obtain or use intelligence gained from torture as long as we didn't do the torture ourselves," Murray said.

rangerone314 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:13 pm

Hopefully they used wood (which is a renewable resource) and not coal or natural gas to boil people. I assume the broken bottles were recycled.

In fairness, maybe they mistook the terror suspects for shale and they were trying to fract out natural gas (which is abundant out that way)

from FBI website:

Quote:

International terrorism involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any state, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any state. These acts appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping and occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

I wonder if raping someone with a bottle is a "violation of the criminal laws of the United States"?

Novus · **Joined:** Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:00 am **Posts:** 1948

I am much too jaded now to be shocked by CIA torture stories. I would not be surprised now if they burned women and children at the stake and disemboweled men like it was in the dark ages. Every tyrant tortures and stamps on human rights with impunity. It won't stop here unless the American people reign in their military industrial complex and "We the People" take our country back.

hardtootell-2 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:36 pm

Torture is merely a form of profound cruelty. Any thinking person will realize this. Subjecting anyone to torture merely gets them agreeing to say what they think you want to hear. Where is the intelligence value in that? There is none-IMHO. It is moronic and unnecessary. The high moral ground is "up for grabs".

What goes around comes around.

“The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral; returning violence with violence only multiplies voilence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.”

Martin Luther King Jr.

Maddog78 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:00 am **Posts:** 1081

Agreed. If you are doing these things to people of course they are going to agree with whatever you ask them to say or sign. As you say, what can the value in that be?
This sickens me but sadly, really doesn't surprise me.

rangerone314 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:46 pm

Maddog78 wrote:

Agreed. If you are doing these things to people of course they are going to agree with whatever you ask them to say or sign. As you say, what can the value in that be?
This sickens me but sadly, really doesn't surprise me.

The mechanics at work here don't seem to be understood. Assumption is that the torture is being done to give the torturer information.

What information they give you is not relevant since you know it is not true. You can present that information as evidence to the politicians/people that you need more funding, etc. Justify your existence.

If they could successfuly fake an alien invasion as a way to increase their funding...

MD · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:53 pm

I'm confused...the titled indicated that the cia is torturing people, yet the content implies that uzbek's are doing the torturing.

More slanted and biased bs.

No, I'm not a cia lover so f*ck off before you even start...

dorlomin · **Joined:** Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:00 am **Posts:** 1918

Craig Murrays allegations have been around for years and has a very well known book (Murder in Samarkland) on it.

He was dismissed as consuler to Uzbekistan in a very high profile incident and was routinely interviewed on UK television at the time.

His blog is a rather good one.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

rangerone314 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:59 pm

MD wrote:

I'm confused...the titled indicated that the cia is torturing people, yet the content implies that uzbek's are doing the torturing. More slanted and biased bs. No, I'm not a cia lover so f*ck off before you even start...

Actually the title IS misleading. The CIA didn't do the torture. The title should have read "CIA outsources torture: rape with broken bottles, boil prisoners alive:.

It figures, we outsource practically EVERYTHING these days.

Jotapay · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:05 pm

MD wrote:

I'm confused...the titled indicated that the cia is torturing people, yet the content implies that uzbek's are doing the torturing. More slanted and biased bs. No, I'm not a cia lover so f*ck off before you even start...

You're distracting from the original intent and message of the post. If I pay someone else to kill someone for me, I will still go to jail even though I didn't kill them myself. The complicity is explicit.

Novus · **Joined:** Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:00 am **Posts:** 1948

Jotapay wrote:

MD wrote:

I'm confused...the titled indicated that the cia is torturing people, yet the content implies that uzbek's are doing the torturing. More slanted and biased bs. No, I'm not a cia lover so f*ck off before you even start...

You're distracting from the original intent and message of the post. If I pay someone else to kill someone for me, I will still go to jail even though I didn't kill them myself. The complicity is explicit.

Here here. Slanted in a pigs ear. Uzbek detention centers are like Gitmo. Not American and not Cuban either but still run by the CIA or other part of military industrial complex. It is a no-mans land where international laws and human rights do not apply and if you go there bad things are going to happen to you.

mos6507 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:32 pm

It's easy to say "run by". It's kind of like claiming one country is a puppet of another country or entity. It's another thing to actually prove it to people who aren't wearing tinfoil hats.

Jotapay · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:18 pm

Since the title was edited by someone, what can I edit it back to that's acceptable?

Jotapay · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:05 pm

mos6507 wrote:

It's easy to say "run by". It's kind of like claiming one country is a puppet of another country or entity. It's another thing to actually prove it to people who aren't wearing tinfoil hats.

You must not have read the article. I knew I could get a Mos trolling post with this.

*ahem*

Quote:

[The CIA] sent terror war suspects to Uzbekistan as part of its extraordinary rendition program. ... And the intelligence from these torture sessions was being received by the CIA...

There! All in a nice, neat package for you who don't like to read, Mos.

British ambassador alledges CIA torture

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